Guns, rifles, shotguns... stuff like that.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Guns, rifles, shotguns... stuff like that.

coolcucumbers · Senior Member

I really don't understand how homeowners go to jail for shooting intruders.
If an intruder comes into my house, he'll be dead. Period.
Don't mess with me!
Wish I had the money to go buy another gun.
And yes the one I do own is locked away very very securely. Maybe even too securely.

LoudmouthMormon · Profuse Pontificator

Here's the Utah policy. I've been known to carry conclealed in CO - especially right after the New Life Church shootings.

-- Edited by LoudmouthMormon at 14:31, 2008-05-12

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

Homeowner went to jail for having either had a gun and not having an IL Firearm Owner ID card, or was in one of the Chicago burbs with a handgun that prohibits handguns. IL is an awful state for gun owners.

In Katrina, the govt., troops, National Guard, police, etc, violated the Constitution and peoples' rights, not all, but it definitely occurred. They broke down doors, attacked people. Rights were completely tossed out the window. Some states reacted by making laws that will not allow confiscation, even though the Constitution prohibits it.

Guns are an absolute necessity for every man, and woman. Wish I could get my wife more interested in them (course I have a vested interest, means more toys for me ;) ). Joseph Smith said that any man that will not defend his family is a coward and a b@$t@rd. Capt. Moroni showed a great example, Joseph went down fighting. When I go, it will be like when I came in, kicking and screaming.

No offense to mirk, but usually, the popo is good for cleaning up the mess. You don't have police standing in your house to protect you at night. I have me. I think it is quite clear from the BoM and D&C that you have a duty to protect your family, the Proclamation on the Family talks of man's role as provider and defender.

Gun free zones are just advertisements for criminals.

Having a gun too secure makes it useless, not knowing how to use it, well, that is very bad. I always have one around and ready, no good needing it and not having it when you need it.

Gun and ammo prices are shooting up in anticipation of the vote, most don't trust McCain on it either. Ammo has gone up because of high metals demands and the war, other shortages. Get one while you can.

A shotgun, a rifle, and a four wheel drive and a country boy can survive.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

LM, know that paper, but until my family has body guards provided by the church, well, my responsibility. I think that is policy prompted by church corporate types. Don't live in UT anyway, so it doesn't apply.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Illinois is worse then Kalifornia. DC and NYC are probably the only places to treat gun owners worse then Illinois, especially Chicago. When we went back there last year I did not bother taking my gun with me and I can legally carry there. First time in a very very long time that I was not armed with a pistol.

My thoughts on self defense: http://www.rogmo.com/controversial.html

No offense taken Val, it is true. However, I will add the caveat, if we happen to be present when something happens you can expect us to do what we have to do.

coolcucumbers: if you live in Utah and use your gun to defend property you are going to have serious legal problems. I'd suggest you brush up on your state's deadly force statute and make sure you understand when you can and can not use it.

-- Edited by mirkwood at 15:04, 2008-05-12

LoudmouthMormon · Profuse Pontificator

Valhalla wrote:
I think that is policy prompted by church corporate types.

Well, whatever prompted it, it's signed by the first presidency, and from what I'm told, they don't rubber stamp stuff.

That said, I don't live in UT either, and it doesn't apply to me either. And it especially didn't apply to me in the weeks after the New Life church shootings, during the time window that 80% of copycat crimes happen. And it probably won't apply to me after the guy I helped put in jail gets out.

LM

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

What's the story there, LM?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

My dad always told me if you're going to shoot someone, you had better kill him.

Oh, and also, "My name is ABC123 until I talk to my lawyer."

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Oh, and I *heard* (don't ask me to remember where...) that the Church had been getting seriously pestered and bothered and harrassed about making a statement or coming forward with something before this letter was issued... and I think there was a story that one of the leaders said something like, "Here ya go, for the good it'll do you."

Anyone remember the background before this letter came out? (I'll admit, the letter bothers me a little bit - like val said, advertising a gun-free zone seems kinda... stoopid?)

NRA · Veteran Member

mirkwood wrote:
coolcucumbers: if you live in Utah and use your gun to defend property you are going to have serious legal problems. I'd suggest you brush up on your state's deadly force statute and make sure you understand when you can and can not use it.

mirk, you're going to have to clarify something for me. I've been told serveral times, including my CC teacher, that it is Utah law that if you catch anyone breaking into your house (entering without permission, even if doors are unlocked) you are allowed to shoot them. As long as they are in your house and not just on your property, you are allowed to shoot them. Whether they are armed or not. True?

-- Edited by NRA at 11:55, 2008-06-03

coolcucumbers · Senior Member

mirk I dont live in Utah but yes I better find out the law.
I just find it criminal that someone can illegally enter in a persons home and if the HOMEOWNER defends himself/herself with a gun, they can go to jail.
what if I use a baseball bat and beat them to death? still a legal problem?

This is down right insane.

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

I'm a fan of Colorado's "make my day" law. I remember seeing one or two news stories about it being applied when we lived there.

LoudmouthMormon · Profuse Pontificator

NRA wrote:
I've been told serveral times, including my CC teacher, that it is Utah law that if you catch anyone breaking into your house (entering without permission, even if doors are unlocked) you are allowed to shoot them.

I don't remember Utah law, but Colorado has something they call a "Make my day" law, which says something to the effect that if an intruder is being especially sneaky or especially loud, you're protected from criminal prosecution if you assume your life is in danger and use deadly force.

This is for home defense only. A year or two ago, lawmakers tried to expand it to businesses as well, but them dang peacenick Democrats shot it down.

LM

DMGNUT · Veteran Member

Here are just a few of the literally dozens of reasons that the Lord has given, for why you (as a priesthood holder) had better have a gun and be well trained in how to use it.

"Not only should we have strong spiritual homes, but we should have strong temporal homes. We should avoid bondage by getting out of debt as soon as we can, pay as we go, and live within our incomes. There is wisdom in having on hand a year's supply of food, clothing, fuel (if possible), and in being preparing to defend our families and our possessionsand to take care of ourselves. I believe a man should prepare for the worst, while working for the best."
Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 263-264

"As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in peace, they will find themselves deceived and before they know, they will sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be ready to send their enemy to hell cross lots, whether they be Lamanites or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their property. We must be prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance and ten to one they will meet their grave."
Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol 1, p. 171 - 172, July 31, 1853

"Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives."

Alma 48:14

"And also, that God would make it known unto them whither they should go to defend themselves against their enemies, and by so doing, the Lord would deliver them; and this was the faith of Moroni, and his heart did glory in it; not in the shedding of blood but in doing good, in preserving his people, yea, in keeping the commandments of God, yea, and resisting iniquity."

Alma 48:16

"And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion."

Alma 43:47

"We all believe that the Lord will fight our battles; but how? Will He do it while we are unconcerned and make no effort whatever for our own safety when an enemy is upon us? If we make no effort to guard our towns, our houses, our cities, our wives and children, will the Lord guard them for us? He will not; but if we pursue the opposite course and strive to help Him to accomplish His designs, then will He fight our battles. We are baptized for the remission of sins; but it would be quite as unreasonable to expect a remission of sins without baptism, as to expect the Lord to fight our battles without our taking every precaution to be prepared to defend ourselves. The Lord requires us to be quite as willing to fight our own battles as to have Him fight them for us. If we are not ready for an enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of his kingdom."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 131, August 1-10, 1865

"Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God, ye could do nothing and He would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this, ye have supposed in vain."

Alma 60:11

"The fight for freedom is God's fight. For free agency is an eternal principle. So when a man stands for freedom he stands with God. And as long as he stands for freedom he stands with God. And were he to stand alone he would still stand with God. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty; and because truth is eternal, any man will be eternally vindicated and rewarded for his stand for freedom."

Ezra Taft Benson, July 4, 1966, Strength for the office Battle, at New England Rally for God, Family, and Country, Boston, Mass, in An Enemy Hath Done This, compiled by Jerreld L. Newquist, Parliament Publishers, 1969, p. 55

Comments anyone?