List of taboo words for Bountiful

ACDC · Member

RE: List of taboo words for Bountiful

alabamabelle · Senior Member

okay, i'll try this again.

I do not condone telling nor do I tell people to shut up. that's just plain rude.

I also do not understand people being willing to seek for an offense when none was either intended nor implied.

in saying that people should post their own op-ed piece instead of responding in a negative manner, I was trying to say that sometimes NOT responding in a knee-jerk fashion (to rhetoric that someone personally considers to be inflammatory) is the best course of action.

when opinions are sanctioned and threads closed down, isn't that telling someone who's wording you don't like to shut up?

ACDC · Member

Poncho29 wrote:

Thank you for pointing that out Coco. I did in fact read your whole post. One shouldn't focus in on one word in a post, thus here is my point: Did you read Cat's whole post before you got offended by the one word he used?

Poncho, forgive me for pointing this out, but you are doing exactly what you are accusing coco of doing. Did you realize that?

And, if you read coco's whole post, how is it that you did not realize that her "ridiculous" remark was a joke? It would seem that everybody got the joke but you. Could it be that you are inferring things into coco's words that she didn't intend because you are feeling defensive?

Just an observation from the peanut gallery....

ACDC · Member

alabamabelle wrote:

okay, i'll try this again.

I do not condone telling nor do I tell people to shut up. that's just plain rude.

I also do not understand people being willing to seek for an offense when none was either intended nor implied.

Maybe it's just because you are related to Cat, but I can't help but wonder if you are referring specifically to coco's original objection to Cat's use of the word "absurd" coupled with the "rofl" emoticon" with this comment. Is that true?

If so, I very vigorously but respectfully disagree. It did not appear to me that coco was looking for offense. Her subsequent comments clarified that she was speaking out against what she felt was derision and unkindness toward the another's beliefs.

in saying that people should post their own op-ed piece instead of responding in a negative manner, I was trying to say that sometimes NOT responding in a knee-jerk fashion (to rhetoric that someone personally considers to be inflammatory) is the best course of action.

Do you agree that Catherder also bears equal responsibility to refrain from reacting impulsively and negatively when he takes offense at the comments of others?

when opinions are sanctioned and threads closed down, isn't that telling someone who's wording you don't like to shut up?

Isn't it ironic that coco's original objection was because she felt that Cat was trying to do exactly that--sanction another's opinion via an insulting combination of word and emoticon? Then Cat threw a fit because his own opinion was being sanctioned? It's all very funny if you can just step back and enjoy it. Ah, delicious irony. My favorite condiment.

And no, I don't think closing down threads is telling people to shut up. I think of it more like a parent giving quarreling children a time out. That hasn't happened yet in this case. But if one side or the other can't lay down their swords, it surely will.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

ACDC wrote:

Poncho29 wrote:

Thank you for pointing that out Coco. I did in fact read your whole post. One shouldn't focus in on one word in a post, thus here is my point: Did you read Cat's whole post before you got offended by the one word he used?

Poncho, forgive me for pointing this out, but you are doing exactly what you are accusing coco of doing. Did you realize that?

And, if you read coco's whole post, how is it that you did not realize that her "ridiculous" remark was a joke? It would seem that everybody got the joke but you. Could it be that you are inferring things into coco's words that she didn't intend because you are feeling defensive?

Just an observation from the peanut gallery....

Yes, I did realize that. And Coco was doing what she accused Cat of doing (I don't care if it was "a joke") I saw Jen do it as well. I see people do it ALL time. I see people say something rude or snarky or downright offensive and then follow it with a cute little or equally rude emoticon.
There's been lot's of "snarky" comments all over this thread. And Cat hasn't been on here for hours, imagine that? Hey, I saw someone make a complete ad hominem attack on Cat on a whole 'nother thread earlier but nothing was said about that.

Perhaps Cat didn't use the word or emoticon appropriately, but even when he tried to explain his position and what context he meant to use them in that wasn't good enough. I believe he even apologized if they seemed offensive in the thread he used them in if I'm not mistaken. Despite that people still feel the need to continue the criticism. This is what I meant by "letting it go."

That's my whole point. Why is it that some people seem to get up in arms when some people do something that is perceived offensive, but for others it seems to be ok. Why is it ok for some people to be rude and unkind "on purpose" when there are others who aren't allowed to be rude or unkind when it was not meant to be so. If I am being defensive, well then, I think I have reason to be.

alabamabelle · Senior Member

ACDC, interesting that you mentioned familial relationship as part of your reply to me.
Does that matter so much to this board? I am thinking this is all about who is related to whom . . .maybe this members only forum is TRULY for just a few members only.

I DO have other things I can do with my time than be here.

I do not advocate NOR encourage anyone to be unkind. And if I have appeared to do so, perhaps we are simply on different levels of spiritual understanding.

As for the points you have raised, let's see if I can muddy the waters for you a bit since clarification didn't work before:

if I say something you personally do not like, whether by inference or direct wording, you get two choices: you can rise to bait (that may not really be there) and answer in a nasty fashion or you can ignore the post and put your own points in without referencing me or my words in any measure, thus effectively cutting my remarks off at the knees.

if my use of an emoticon to express personal opinion or thought is offensive, then should the moderators ban the use of them since they are often applied as a 'gee that is stupid' moment in addition to showing humor, which may offend the humorless? Since I don't advocate tyranny, that wouldn't be appropriate nor fair to the other posters to this forum who might consider their own use of them perfectly applicable.

should I happen to say something that isn't understood, I am happy to try again.
Communication isn't just talking, it is finding common ground and common understanding of terms and phrases. I'm beginning to see that phrases that are used around my part of the country aren't familiar or kosher in others' locales. if my phraseology of saying to toughen up to ward off hurt feelings has indeed hurt feelings, it was unintentional.

I do not offer an apology for trying to learn.

But I find myself confused as to why there is such a willingness by the participants to start something over trivialities and perceived or real slights.

everyone bears responsibility for their actions. I do not believe anyone has the right to jump on a crusading bandwagon to bash anyone else. The scriptures tell us that if someone has offended us that we are to take them aside ALONE and sort it out.

those who have been offended by something that has been said should consider availing themselves of the PM feature to sort out their issues privately instead of inflaming the entire discussion.

sorry this was so long. I am just confused about why this forum even exists now.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

UC wrote: I also told her it would take less than a week for everyone to dislike me. That she is wasting her efforts on a couple of her adopted kids, and that she should get a clue and vote for Romney, but then we know each other really well and can say those kinds of things to each other without offense.

So you're saying that with different people we can use different words, and though others may perceive it as offensive, the receiver won't.

I think I frequently overestimate other's abilities to take what I say in the playful way in which I say it.

Apologies to all, and I'll just butt out of the conversation at this point (as Jen and Arbi noted, something I should've done a while ago.) Have fun,

--Ray

-- Edited by rayb at 22:15, 2008-01-02

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

I was just wondering something ACDC, why is it the only time you ever seem to post anything is when Cat is called on the carpet for something? Just curious.

ACDC · Member

Poncho29 wrote:

Yes, I did realize that. And Coco was doing what she accused Cat of doing (I don't care if it was "a joke") I saw Jen do it as well. I see people do it ALL time.

I must be missing your point. Are you saying that it's okay for you to do it because everyone else is doing it? (just teasin' ya on that one.) My point is that it is silly for you to criticize coco for picking out just one word at the very end of Cat's post, while you picked out just one word at the beginning of hers; whether you were offended in reality or only feigning so makes no difference. Do you think she just scans Cat's posts just looking for offensive words? Do you think that because that is what you do when you read her posts? Those are honest questions I hope you will consider when you get over your current frustration with me. Don't answer here. Just think about it.

I see people say something rude or snarky or downright offensive and then follow it with a cute little or equally rude emoticon. There's been lot's of "snarky" comments all over this thread.

I assume that you are including yourself and your beloved beleaguered Cat in that group of "people". You seem to be pointing fingers at others...do you mean to imply that yourself and the people you are on good terms with are the only ones not being snarky? Again, I'm just trying to clarify here, because that's what it seems like you are saying. I would be happy to be told I'm wrong.

And Cat hasn't been on here for hours, imagine that?

I've noticed this pattern before: Cat says something, someone objects to it, Cat gets mad and leaves for a few hours, then you come on and continue the fight for him. You become increasingly strident as you stand by your man, to the point where I begin to be embarrassed for you. Later he'll come back and say how disgusted he is and if people keep treating him this way, he's gonna leave permanently. He might take perhaps a week or so off, then come back and continue on as before. At which time your claws retract and the mama bear goes dormant... until the next time. Am I the only one who sees this?

Hey, I saw someone make a complete ad hominem attack on Cat on a whole 'nother thread earlier but nothing was said about that.

May I suggest you start a new moderation thread complaining about that specific attack, so as not to complicate this already muddied discussion?

Perhaps Cat didn't use the word or emoticon appropriately, but even when he tried to explain his position and what context he meant to use them in that wasn't good enough.

If he used the word or emoticon inappropriately, the mature and responsible thing to do, rather than defend himself, is to simply say, "Ooops. Sorry about that." This whole mess could have been avoided. He would have been the hero who prevented the trainwreck. And we would all be asleep right now.

I believe he even apologized if they seemed offensive in the thread he used them in if I'm not mistaken.

Are you referring to this post, at the top of the second page?
Oh, I am sorry that you didn't like the use of the laughing emoticon, coco...
Sure, he apologized after he'd become incensed and accusatory. Should it count the same as if he'd said it immediately after coco's first request? Ever heard the phrase "too little, too late"?

Despite that people still feel the need to continue the criticism. This is what I meant by "letting it go."

Sweetie, you can't let it go yourself. Lecturing other people about how they should let it go first really isn't constructive.

That's my whole point. Why is it that some people seem to get up in arms when some people do something that is perceived offensive, but for others it seems to be ok. Why is it ok for some people to be rude and unkind "on purpose" when there are others who aren't allowed to be rude or unkind when it was not meant to be so.

Perhaps a new thread where you systematically enumerate the offenses you have seen, so we can compare apples to apples and really see what's going on, would be warranted. Vague references to "some people do something" really don't help--they just perpetuate perceptions that may or may not be true. The only way to find out what is really going on is to take a hard look at specific examples of the undesirable behavior and determine if what you perceive is actually true. It can be uncomfortable for everyone. That's why we endlessly dance around it with terms like "someone" and "we" -- it's much easier than actually doing the work required to discover the truth.

If I am being defensive, well then, I think I have reason to be.

And my last question for you: does your defensiveness help to calm the situation or escalate it?

Poncho, I really am not attacking you here. I am trying to be as objective as a mortal person can be. I'm sure I am failing at it, from your point of view. I have no allegiances here - I'm not buds with anyone. I'm not on anyone's "side". I haven't had any off forum or pm contact with anyone here. I'm just trying to shoot straight, and trying to help you see a few things that you seem to be blind to. I mean that in the nicest possible way. I have no negative feelings toward you or your husband. I'm just growing weary of the repeated patterns, like you are. Like everyone is. It isn't healthy for any of us, and it isn't healthy for Bountiful. Talking in circles accomplishes nothing. Only kindness and honesty, both in word and in thought, can solve the problems we have here.

Maybe it's a hopeless case. I don't know... maybe we're all just snot nosed little brats who need a spanking and some time in the corner now and then, only to make the same mistakes again the next week. That's a sad thought.

ACDC · Member

Alabamabelle, it's late and I'm tired, so I won't launch into a point by point response of your last post. I hope you'll forgive me. :)

I am disappointed, however, that you declined to answer my very specific questions. I thought that asking for clarification before assuming intent was what was wanted here. As I said to Poncho above, I don't feel that speaking in generalities solves anything - because it's too easy to misunderstand, to wonder, "Is she talking about me?" or to assume, "Oh yeah, she's talking about everyone except me. You go girl!"

Do you see what I'm saying? Using pronouns is not specific enough to solve the problems we have here on Bountiful. But then, perhaps individual growth and emotional honesty isn't something that is well suited for a public venue such as this. If that's true... well... perhaps it's better not to talk about it at all. I think perhaps Bountiful would be a much nicer place if no one ever responded directly to anything anyone else said, as you have proposed. It would be very peaceful. And boring as hell.

arbilad · Head Chef

I would appreciate it if we could disagree civilly about our differences. If I had caught Cat's infraction earlier I would have taken it up with him privately, because I hate it when things explode like this. I don't want anyone to leave, form permanent grudges, start burning voodoo dolls engraved with the username of the person who offended them, whatever.
We're all children of Heavenly Father. We all have divine potential, and hopefully someday we'll be a Zion people. Not "We'll be a Zion people once we kick so and so out". We need to prepare to be a Zion people even with those with whom we disagree right now. How else can we be of one heart and one mind?
What if the person you disagreed with moved into your ward and you were assigned as their home/visiting teacher?

ACDC · Member

Poncho29 wrote:

I was just wondering something ACDC, why is it the only time you ever seem to post anything is when Cat is called on the carpet for something? Just curious.

That's a fair question.

I think it's because I am easily bored, and the only time I am spurred to post is when there is a conflict that interests me. Considering that Catherder has been involved in all the conflicts since I began checking in here regularly, I can see why you might form that impression.

I am a student of human psychology and behavior. When people behave in ways that are inconsistent with their stated beliefs, that intrigues me. Catherder seems to do this rather often, so....

Perhaps I should point out the logical bumps in the behavior of the rest of the forum too. Would that help? biggrin

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

start burning voodoo dolls engraved with the username of the person who offended them

Good to know NOW. There's an evening I won't get back.

ACDC · Member

Arbilad, I was laboring over my response to poncho when you posted. I would appreciate it if you would tell me directly if you feel that I am being uncivil. I will try to respond quickly to whatever action you suggest.

arbilad · Head Chef

ACDC, I don't think that you are purposefully trying to hurt anyone's feelings. You seem to be avoiding using loaded words and trying to base your conclusions on observations of behavior. I don't think that you are being uncivil, but you are engaging in what I've heard called "tough love".
Note for everyone else reading; this is not necessarily an endorsement of what ACDC is saying; they just asked if they were being uncivil, and in my opinion, they aren't. Of course, I could be wrong. I'm only human.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

I am sorry if I contributed to this heated debate last night. I was tired too physically and emotionally. These run arounds get very tiresome and exhausting.

All I was trying to point out is I see others (including myself) do the very same things that Cat gets accused of all the time and yet no one pays any attention or people find a way to excuse it. I think everyone and I do mean everyone around here appears to be guilty of that from time to time.
Perhaps the reason I jump to his defense is because he has given up trying to do it himself. It's just hard to sit back sometimes and see people make assumptions or accusations that just aren't true or that seem one-sided.
Obviously what I was trying to convey wasn't coming through very well.

I don't hesitate to tell Cat when he has done something wrong. I told him he could have handled himself better in this situation as well, but please don't dismiss what I say just because I happen to be married to the guy. Don't dismiss what Alabamabelle says either just because she happens to be related to us. We have the same expectations of each other as we do everyone else, maybe even moreso. I personally, just need to find a way to take out the emotion better when I want to say something.

Perhaps that's where all the contention stems from. Our posts become reactionary and accusatory.

Anyway, I'll shut up now as well since all we're doing is talking at each other rather than to each other. That's a shame in my opinion.
Although I do think it's interesting that UnderConstruction is absolutely correct in her observations.

The same things keep happening over and over again.

-- Edited by Poncho29 at 04:18, 2008-01-03

-- Edited by Poncho29 at 04:30, 2008-01-03

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

This thread was not started in the Moderation Discussions area. Somewhere along the line, Arbilad moved it. Then all of you people decided it was time to get your two cents or more worth of slamfest on me and each other in... And the "student of human psychology and behavior" sees the opportunity to gleefully jump on the top of the heap with his/her witty and "I'm so superior" attitude pile driver(s).

What a lovely forum and group of people. How undeserving are any of us of the term Saint.

Whether an apology was asked for, expected, or wanted, I did say I was sorry and explained why I said what I said. That seems to have not been good enough because I was not in sack cloth and ashes begging forgiveness. Apparently for it to be sincere, I must also not get upset if I feel I am treated unfairly in the process of others taking or creating offense where none was intended. Apparently others who think similarly are out of line if they, of there own free will and volition, seek to voice their concern.

I asked this once before back when people started this same sort of nonsense in November...

What do people want of me?

No one was honest enough to answer that question.

I'm not going to ask it again. It seems clear to me now what people really want of me.

They want me to shut up, keep my opinions to myself, and stand around and smile and nod when they feel the need to lash out at someone -- and with what seems to be the attitude that if Cat Herder is the most convenient one around to do it to, all the better because he is offensive to me and deserves it anyway.

How undeserving are any of us of the term Saint...

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

slept through it...

-- Edited by PollyAnna at 22:40, 2008-01-04

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

Ah, if only I could be a morning person.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

cat- What's the attack on ACDC? You say he's gleefully jumping on top the heap? You say he feels superior? His posts asked simple questions and stuck to the issues as far as I read them. He didn't throw any name-calling or victimization your way. In fact, I think he went out of his way to be civil and try to keep this issue- or behavior-based and not personal.

You say none of us deserve to be called Saints? That's choice.

What do I want from you? What started this whole thing is that I wanted you to back off on mocking someone's questions in the Super Secret area. Just answer the questions posed if you had any answers to give. How this turned into a "Cat's getting slammed on...again- I can't believe this forum!" is a marvelous work and a wonder. All I would've liked is for you to show a little more tolerance for someone with some sincere questions and not discourage their asking them for fear of a put-down.

What do you think people want of you? You said it's clear to you now...

alabamabelle · Senior Member

ACDC wrote:
I won't launch into a point by point response of your last post.

I am disappointed, however, that you declined to answer my very specific questions.

ASK ME SPECIFIC ONE AT A TIME QUESTIONS AND I WILL ANSWER THEM.

Ros · Senior Member

Unbelievable.

*going off to hang out with pagan/gay/anti-mormon friends who like each other*

alabamabelle · Senior Member

one question, are the paga/gay/anit-mormon friends all the same person or several people who encompass those proclivities?

not being nasty, just asking.

I knew a gal in college who was all about Wiccan stuff and she was into the Mother Earth stuff and rabid anti-mormon, she made a wicked homemade ice cream

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cat Herder wrote:
What do people want of me?

I don't want clever conversation
I never want to work that hard
I just want someone that I can talk to
I want you just the way you are.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Before it becomes too late to do so, I want to apologize to any and every individual in this forum who has ever had cause to get irritated at, angry because of, or be offended (whether or not we agree if it was intentional or incidental) by me. Even if it started across the river.

Really.

I mean it.

I am sorry.

If you can bring yourself to forgive, I ask that you consider forgiving me all those wrongs.

-- Edited by arbilad at 12:34, 2008-01-05

ACDC · Member

I feel I should offer my apologies as well. I fear that I am partly to blame for this new state of affairs the moderator has felt the need to impose. I hope catherder, poncho, alabamabelle and anyone else whom I may have offended can forgive me for any pain that I may have given them with my overly candid words.