Hope for Ron Paul?

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

Hope for Ron Paul?

arbilad · Head Chef

Fox news, as a private business entity, has the right to invite anyone they want to the debates. That said, if they want to call it "Republican Debates" they should invite all the Republican candidates, unless they want the debate to be a farce.
Ron Paul does have a chance. His fundraising shows that - there are a lot of private individuals sending in small donations. And the amazing thing about Ron Paul is that he is getting people excited about voting who haven't voted for decades.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

I feel it would be a HUGE mistake if he and Duncan Hunter were to be excluded.

Let the people decide with voting.

With a large percentage of the voters still undecided, I think Ron Paul could pull off a surprise.

(Edited for spelling)

-- Edited by Mahonri at 08:48, 2008-01-01

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

He'd have more hope if his followers would quit scaring people off (not you, Arbi, but you're the only exception I've come across). I feel like he's going to start distributing purple kool-aid soon or something.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

I've wondered if he'd pick Dennis Kucinich for V.P.?

Just joking arb.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

Word is, Paul has been excluded from the Fox News debate next week.

I think that is truly sad.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

He could just "show up" like Alan Keyes does...

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

The media wants to marginalize Ron Paul because if they give him publicity, people will actually start thinking about issues instead of personalities.

arbilad · Head Chef

Jen wrote:

He'd have more hope if his followers would quit scaring people off (not you, Arbi, but you're the only exception I've come across). I feel like he's going to start distributing purple kool-aid soon or something.

The thing to understand about Ron Paul's supporters is that they see immediate problems facing this country. That is, problems that need to be taken care of in the next few years or our nation could disappear altogether. I think that perhaps that is what scares you off. The people who you are talking to not only believe in what Ron Paul is saying, but believe that the results if he's not elected are dire. So you see very strong feelings, and perhaps in some cases even desperation.
You see, not everyone has the gospel perspective. I know that, no matter what happens, the Lord is on our side and we will win. But there are those who don't have that assurance in their lives. Ron Paul offers a chance at fixing this country, and so they leap at that. They can be overzealous.
Missionaries can be overzealous too, but at least with the gospel, we have the help of the Lord to help people see the truth even when a socially inept 19 year old is telling it to them. When a Ron Paul rep is calling you, he's not representing the Lord, so there's not that special assistance to take the edge off an urgent message.
Of course, you can gain a testimony of all truth through the Holy Ghost. But in most cases you have to search that testimony out. The Gospel is higher priority than anything else, so the Holy Ghost will testify of it as long as you're receptive.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

You know, every time MrCoco sees Ron Paul on teevee, he tells me, "Man, that guy is SMART!"

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

arbilad wrote:

The thing to understand about Ron Paul's supporters is that they see immediate problems facing this country. That is, problems that need to be taken care of in the next few years or our nation could disappear altogether. I think that perhaps that is what scares you off. The people who you are talking to not only believe in what Ron Paul is saying, but believe that the results if he's not elected are dire. So you see very strong feelings, and perhaps in some cases even desperation.

I can't speak for others, but in my case, it is not what he says or the claims of immediate problems facing this country (sheesh... when has there not been an immediate problem facing the country?) that turn me off... it is clearly the overzealous fanaticism that too many of his supporters portray. It is the concern that such a movement often leads to intolerance and radicalism and fundamentalism... all the things we decry when we look at other nations that are dealing with or have dealt with repressive regimes.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

So it's not the message, but the delivery... hm....

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

As I have said elsewhere, there is no way to really get to an understanding of what his "real" message is because of all the stories that have been told and built up to make Dr. Paul look like our last best hope for freedom, liberty, apple pie and the American Way (a.k.a. a political messiah).

It is the facade (not knowing what is really behind it) AND the delivery.

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

Even Ron Paul supporters don't get his message in many cases. Many of his supporters think he buys into the 9-11 conspiracy but on Glen Beck he was very clear that he did not.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

You are wrong Cat. If you don't want to listen/believe/hear the messengers, go to his .gov website and read the transcripts of his speeches. He is pretty clear.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

So, I am not only misinformed but I am wrong too, because my opinion and perception doesn't match yours or others that support the candidate?

Prime example of what I was trying to point out, people...

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Opinion and perception not based on fact aren't overly useful.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

pardon moi for having an opinion and perception...

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cat Herder wrote:

As I have said elsewhere, there is no way to really get to an understanding of what his "real" message is because of all the stories that have been told and built up to make Dr. Paul look like our last best hope for freedom, liberty, apple pie and the American Way (a.k.a. a political messiah).

It is the facade (not knowing what is really behind it) AND the delivery.

No you are wrong because you won't take the time to go and research his message. You damn yourself with your own words. If you wanted to know what his message was you could but you choose not to find out. That is on you and nobody else in spite of opinion and perception.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

mirkwood wrote:

Cat Herder wrote:

As I have said elsewhere, there is no way to really get to an understanding of what his "real" message is because of all the stories that have been told and built up to make Dr. Paul look like our last best hope for freedom, liberty, apple pie and the American Way (a.k.a. a political messiah).

It is the facade (not knowing what is really behind it) AND the delivery.

No you are wrong because you won't take the time to go and research his message. You damn yourself with your own words. If you wanted to know what his message was you could but you choose not to find out. That is on you and nobody else in spite of opinion and perception.

Big fat false assumption there that I have not gone to his website(s) and looked at his stuff...

Who is damning who with their own words? You are implying that if I simply did so with sufficient sincerity, I would come to the same conclusion as you.

And that, my friend, is complete intolerance.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

To understand Ron Paul, one must first go to his website, it doesn't hurt to be conversant in ancient Sanskrit and have a listing of your own genetic codes too! ;)

--Ray

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cat Herder wrote:

mirkwood wrote:

Cat Herder wrote:

As I have said elsewhere, there is no way to really get to an understanding of what his "real" message is because of all the stories that have been told and built up to make Dr. Paul look like our last best hope for freedom, liberty, apple pie and the American Way (a.k.a. a political messiah).

It is the facade (not knowing what is really behind it) AND the delivery.

No you are wrong because you won't take the time to go and research his message. You damn yourself with your own words. If you wanted to know what his message was you could but you choose not to find out. That is on you and nobody else in spite of opinion and perception.

Big fat false assumption there that I have not gone to his website(s) and looked at his stuff...

Who is damning who with their own words? You are implying that if I simply did so with sufficient sincerity, I would come to the same conclusion as you.

And that, my friend, is complete intolerance.

Wrong again. You would understand what his position is...far different from agreeing with it, which I never said. If you had been to his site and read his position, you would understand it whether you agreed or not. You said that it was not possible to understand, therefore you must not have read. Ron is quite plain in his position on issues, there is no misunderstanding where he stands, agree with him or not, he is very clear on what he believes. It's that simple and I don't think you are dumb, just argumentive.

arbilad · Head Chef

Don't make me stop this car...

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

Actually Mirk, I know for a fact that Cat HAS visited Ron Paul's websites, on many occasions.
I've looked at them myself on occasion and I don't get alot of what Ron Paul stands for. It's hard for me to get past the rhetoric with most politicians.

It would be very disturbing to think that anyone would assume Cat is being less than honest about researching Ron Paul's position by implying that he hasn't when he actually has.

I would appreciate it if people would not go there... with anyone on this forum.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

You are still assuming that I have not been to his site or read his positions.

In fact, I have been there several times. And in fact, the content of his website has changed every time I have gone to it. In fact, what he states on the issues he has defined as important have been nothing more than what I call nice "soundbytes". Fluffy stuff for people to get all riled up about and say "Yeah! That's right!". And yet, I have seen nothing behind the facade of "soundbytes". And that is where all the overzealous fanaticism of so many of his supporters clouds being able to see what is behind that facade. Attacks on every other candidate and claims of conspiracy by the media to keep his "message" from the public.

Say what you will. Assume what you will. But don't call me argumentative when I am telling you my actual experience as opposed to your assumptions of my experience.

arbilad · Head Chef

I'm going to leave this thread closed for a few days and give everyone a chance to calm down. Then I'll reopen it and we'll hopefully have a happy, productive discussion.