Gangster Rules to play by

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

Gangster Rules to play by

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

This ones kinda interesting...especially notice Bush at 1:33 in the video and tell me if thats sick humor or a serious problem people should be aware of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUtt2-9nim8&feature=related

-- Edited by hiddentreasuredotws at 23:13, 2007-12-13

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

I think the use of profane language in the first post above is regrettable.

I think much of the imagery in the second video you linked was disturbing. Hey, but if Ron Paul approves of being the neo-hippie candidate, more power to him... it will only further polarize people against him.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

I didn't bother to watch the first video because of the reason Cat stated.

I watched the 2nd video until 1:33. That is sick humor on the part of the person who put the video together. If that is not the fringe, I don't know what is.

I wonder what Ron Paul would say of that video. I seriously doubt he would approve of it. If he would approve of it then he would be removed completely from the list of candidates that I could consider for President of the United States.

Truly sad and disturbing.

-- Edited by Mahonri at 04:20, 2007-12-14

alabamabelle · Senior Member

the point in the video to which you refer was Bush gesturing toward a section of the listening audience to select someone for a comment or question. nothing sinister unless it's been edited to be so.

however, the crude representation of a bloody chested Bush with an alien emerging from him is disrespectful to the office of the President.

By all means, vote for your candidate of choice. while I support your right to chose whomever suits you and your ideology best, I don't feel you are very respectful towards other people's right to do the same.

I DO find it interesting that this youtube video is accompanied by the music of the Beatles, in particular, because they are WELL KNOWN for drug abuse, vulgar behavior, disrepect towards God and Jesus Christ and a general lack of respect toward the 'establishment'.

One might infer that this is what Mr. Paul supports as well.

and by the way, your profanity laced reference isn't in the video. taking things out of context is a favorite political game. . .

so exactly where might we view the entire commentary in context? I feel quite sure that isn't the entire matter regarding Bush.

-- Edited by alabamabelle at 07:18, 2007-12-14

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

interesting take on the images belle... I admit, I am steering clear of these videos lately. I got burned on a couple in the last week. Political youtube videos that were sent to me by people I didn't know too well... so I am leary of any video referenced by someone I haven't already learned to trust implicitly...

I'll usually click, and on the two on LDS forums I follow I generally don't see things that are really offensive to me... but now I find myself thinking twice if the video is political. Kinda' sad...

alabamabelle · Senior Member

extremists in any realm HOPE that others will blindly believe whatever they thrust in front of their eyes.

that's why it's essential to do your homework.

I view these snippets of glurge for what they are. clipped, edited, manufactured sound-bytes that support the moral compass points of whomever did the selection of included material.

some are well done, but the don't drown out the truth as I see it. and that doesn't make anyone an enemy to see "their truth" from their little hillside overlooking the battle going on in the valley below.

just wish others understood that point.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

I agree that second video was disturbing. I get turned off real quick by political campaigns that just do mud-slinging. It seems these days that is all anyone does. They point out what they don't like about "the other guy" and getting downright nasty.

Taking things out of context is a popular thing to do too. If Ron Paul approved that second video.
Well then I'm sorry, but my opinion of him just plummeted even more.

Alabamabelle is right. It is disrespectful. You don't have to like George Bush, but he is still the President and should be treated with the proper respect. But most people don't understand the concept of that word nowadays.

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

Could you (or a moderator) please remove the swearing in your first post? That particular phrase is most offensive, and inappropriate for this forum.

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

I second that request.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

EGADS! How did I miss the swearing in that first post? Yeah, I'd say it is highly inappropriate.

Inappropriate and probably taken out of context.

alabamabelle · Senior Member

oh where, oh where did our moderators go, oh where oh where can they beeeeeeee?

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

Earning a living for their families? The nerve. :)

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

hiddentreasuredotws wrote:

This ones kinda interesting...especially notice Bush at 1:33 in the video and tell me if thats sick humor or a serious problem people should be aware of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUtt2-9nim8&feature=related

-- Edited by hiddentreasuredotws at 23:13, 2007-12-13

alabamabelle · Senior Member

Jen wrote:

Earning a living for their families? The nerve. :)

it's that kind of slack attitude that makes the forum what it is!

does your clock say naptime yet?

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

Sorry, I have edited the language of concern. As to the other assumptions I will address them shortly when I have a few more minutes.

DaKnife · Senior Member

I learned something from the first video. He (at least when not hanging out in congress) does not accept Medicaid or Medicare in his medical practice. What that means, is that along with others in need, he does not accept Tri-care the medical insurance for our armed forces. If a doctor won't accept Medicaid/medicare they also refuse Tri-care which uses the same allowable charges per service, which of course is the real reason most doctors who don't accept these insurance programs, money. They get more money from private insurance companies than they do from the government funded ones.

So he talks about supporting our troops but wouldn't treat them in his own practice. For either some miguided principal or because he's too greedy. From the video on another thread he critcized Bush (out of context of course) for not signing the SCHIP bill, yet he's against such types of coverage. Thus we see yet another typical politician who will say what he thinks will get him elected, even when that means contradicting himself.

Go Mitt, or for that matter, anyone else over Paul.

alabamabelle · Senior Member

there are a great deal of people, who, through no fault of their own, REQUIRE medicaid or medicare and if Dr. Paul refuses them service as his calling card for electability, one wonders if he garnered sufficient backing if he would simply eliminate those services. . .

not everyone makes the salary of a doctor nor is everyone healthy.

so, I feel compelled to ask is he is appealing to rich and elitest people who view those on medicaid and medicare as being 'low class, non-paying drones'?

and since he also (by default) doesn't accept Tri-care, doesn't that mean he thinks precious little of our military's health?

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

Political opinions, including on youtube do not = official campaign

The removed Quote from Bush did show disrespect fot the office of Pres..by Bush himself.

I didnt know that the Nazi looking salute was a method he uses to point to someone. Wow why would he do that? Who does that?

arbilad · Head Chef

For the record, Ron Paul has more support amongst the military than any other candidate.

alabamabelle · Senior Member

hiddentreasuredotws wrote:

Political opinions, including on youtube do not = official campaign

yet you are relying upon youtube to expound upon your views as representing his official platform.

I didnt know that the Nazi looking salute was a method he uses to point to someone. Wow why would he do that? Who does that?
you are seeing what you want to see. I have a photo of myself with my arm extended taken from an odd angle that can be interpreted the same way. In my case, I was reaching for a drumstick.

but I imagine you would see it however forwarded your personal agenda.

you will vote the way your conscience leads and so will the rest of us who intend to vote.

as for the Bush quote, all I have seen during the several HOURS of internet research I have been doing thus far is apocryphal in nature. All I have found is inflammatory rhetorics claiming that "unnamed sources verified that they were indeed in the room and Bush said it". blah blah blah

if they don't have the nerve to STATE THEIR NAMES FOR THE RECORD, I don't feel obliged to give it much creedence.

Gossip and innuendo have replaced character and integrity as political mainstays.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

For the record, Ron Paul has more support amongst the military than any other candidate.

Source?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I guess I *assumed* if Ron Paul didn't accept Medicaid, etc... he was treating them for free or a very low cost...

I could be totally wrong. Maybe he turned people away. I don't know.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Ron Paul has more support amongst the military than any other candidate.

Arbi, since you are a supporter, I will ask you... I have searched but don't see anything regarding this topic... do you know if it is true that he does not accept Military insurance as well as Medicaid or Medicare insurance in his medical practice? I would be interested in knowing if that is the case. If he does not except government insurance, does he simply not accept ANY insurance? I have heard of doctors that this is true for... I don't agree with that business practice, because it makes medical costs higher for those patients... and that is a whole different discussion... But I am curious, though not enough to watch a video that may or may not be offensive.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

While I don't have any thing to base this on, other than the fact I have a brother-in-law who is a doctor, and we have a number of friends who are doctors, (and I can't believe I'm doing this... ugh...

) it may not be entirely fair to try to smear Dr. Paul just because he doesn't accept Medicaid or Medicare -- and may as a result not accept Tri-care.

There may be many reasons why a physician does not accept it. He or she may just not want to have to deal with the hassle and regulatory compliance that accepting those "insurance" plans would require. As I've understood it, if a medical provider accepts medicaid / medicare, they can not be discriminatory in accepting new patients. In lieu of accepting those plans, they are always free to offer whatever cash basis they want to such individuals, some may require full charge, some may offer a discounted price, some may do it for free.

What I think is more germane to know concerning Dr. Paul's business practice as a physician in relation to his political platform is what his practice was in relation to the poor, uninsured, underinsured, patients that were on government funded insurance programs. Did he still accept them as patients? If so, how much of his work was charitable (for free or at a price they could afford)? How much did he write off as a business loss for his taxes?

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

rayb wrote:

For the record, Ron Paul has more support amongst the military than any other candidate.

Source?

I read that it was a Zogby poll that found that about 1/3 of military families supported Paul's position to bring the troops home immediately and then the article gave the numbers for the other candidates. But, that also means that 2/3rds did not support Paul in the poll and chose one of the other republican candidates. Also, if you ask military wives if they want their husbands home, you will find that most do. If Arb is referring to the same poll military families is different than the actual military members serving overseas. There's always more than one way to read poll results.

-- Edited by Duke of Mirth at 15:04, 2007-12-14

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

arbilad wrote:
For the record, Ron Paul has more support amongst the military than any other candidate.

IF that were true, then they obviously have NOT done their homework.

Source????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

-- Edited by Mahonri at 19:50, 2007-12-14

DaKnife · Senior Member

What I think is more germane to know concerning Dr. Paul's business practice as a physician in relation to his political platform is what his practice was in relation to the poor, uninsured, underinsured, patients that were on government funded insurance programs. Did he still accept them as patients?
While that is certainly a good question, let me explain why I find his not accepting Gov insurance programs a problem. I have Excema, when I first moved to our current home, I got a referral to a dermatologist who was convieniently close. After seeing him a couple times, I was notified by his Insurance clerk that I would need to either start paying cash or find another Dr, because this one had decided he would no longer accept what Tri-care would pay. So now I have a much longer drive to get to the dermatologist that does accept Tri-care, meaning I have to take almost half a day off instead of an hour or so for an average 15 min apt.

Like most end users of Insurance, I have no control over what will be paid to the Doctor, but I should be able to get the treatment I need without hunting for a provider who will actually accept my insurance.

So to find out that this candidate, who did a stint in the Airforce, and who vehemently bashes Bush for not signing the SCHIP bill. Chose not to accept Gov insurance programs, because they were somehow unconstitutional, or just to socialistic. It needs to be pointed out, especially since his supporters can see no wrong in
anything he does. (and SCHIP isn't a socialized medicine program?)

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

DaKnife wrote:

What I think is more germane to know concerning Dr. Paul's business practice as a physician in relation to his political platform is what his practice was in relation to the poor, uninsured, underinsured, patients that were on government funded insurance programs. Did he still accept them as patients?
While that is certainly a good question, let me explain why I find his not accepting Gov insurance programs a problem. I have Excema, when I first moved to our current home, I got a referral to a dermatologist who was convieniently close. After seeing him a couple times, I was notified by his Insurance clerk that I would need to either start paying cash or find another Dr, because this one had decided he would no longer accept what Tri-care would pay. So now I have a much longer drive to get to the dermatologist that does accept Tri-care, meaning I have to take almost half a day off instead of an hour or so for an average 15 min apt.

Like most end users of Insurance, I have no control over what will be paid to the Doctor, but I should be able to get the treatment I need without hunting for a provider who will actually accept my insurance.

So to find out that this candidate, who did a stint in the Airforce, and who vehemently bashes Bush for not signing the SCHIP bill. Chose not to accept Gov insurance programs, because they were somehow unconstitutional, or just to socialistic. It needs to be pointed out, especially since his supporters can see no wrong in
anything he does. (and SCHIP isn't a socialized medicine program?)

I am sorry to hear of your challenges, I personally understand the challen ges poor people or underinsured can go through, however In a God inspired constitutional society people are less subservient, it is the socialism and forced welfare that has created subservience to more and more people, not the reverse. I do believe many could not get treatmen t currently, but Dr Paul is standing in principle against a cancerous self destructing socialist system that always leads to total collapse. So tyhe ultimate choice is Freedom and Free Agency or to be taken care of much like prisoners who are clothed and fed and are gauranteed medical treatment. There is a happy medium...that was the stages inbetween God inspired Constitutional Government for the last generation.and totalitarian government of the future (which we are closer to).current generations are paying the price as more and more cant possibly afford..sadly including military personell. When the productivce base pays more than 50% of their income in taxes and are having harder time affording insurance then trends need to reverse....we are quickly becoming prisoners of our own devices.

-- Edited by hiddentreasuredotws at 08:22, 2007-12-15

alabamabelle · Senior Member

hiddentreasuredotws wrote:
I am sorry to hear of your challenges, I personally understand the challen ges poor people or underinsured can go through, however In a God inspired constitutional society people are less subservient, it is the socialism and forced welfare that has created subservience to more and more people, not the reverse. I do believe many could not get treatmen t currently, but Dr Paul is standing in principle against a cancerous self destructing socialist system that always leads to total collapse. So tyhe ultimate choice is Freedom and Free Agency or to be taken care of much like prisoners who are clothed and fed and are gauranteed medical treatment. There is a happy medium...that was the stages inbetween for the last generation..current generations are paying the price as more and more cant possibly afford..sadly including military personell.

Do tell.

Just where is your level of being able to 'personally understand'? Not trying to be snotty, just wondering. Are you insured? Do you have access to medical care for yourself and family members?

Do you have a totally dependent 24 hour care family member who, by circumstances NOT of his choosing, must depend upon the medical communities 'good graces' to get the care he so desperately needs?

Have you personally been told by one of those very professionals whom your child (or you) needs, that they WON'T cover your services under Medicaid because 'THEY DON'T GET PAID ENOUGH' for performing them?

Have you had your personal insurance cancelled because your family is 'too high risk' and they felt they had paid out enough and cancelled the policy?

How about having to swipe the plastic to get a broken arm set because the hospital won't take uninsured patients unless it is a dire emergency and they set up a cash only transaction FIRST? (THANK THE GOOD LORD FOR 24 Hour CRITICAL CARE BUSINESSES THAT TAKE THE PLASTIC!!)

Or, and this is my favorite scenario, you finally get a Doc who WILL treat you or your family member, but because they DO accept Medicaid, getting an appointment is a lot like finding a gold mine and the office isn't handicap accessible?

Because frankly, this is daily life for our family. So I have NO respect for Doctors who USE the system to get an education for themselves through student loans and grants to get through the expensive process of med school and turn their backs on the very people who's taxes paid their way!

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Yes, do tell indeed. Did Dr. Paul take out any student loans or receive any grants for any of his higher education? I've heard the claim he has not / will not allow any of his children to do so, but did he? I find it unlikely, unless he had the good fortune to have come from a family that was well to do and could afford to pay for his medical schooling all in cash. If that is the case, then he does not really know what it is like to be poor (as in not financially secure). If he did take out student loans at anytime, he is indeed a hypocrite.

DaKnife, I see your point (and agree), my point was just to put it at a more personal level (like AlabamaBelle was placing it), as in does his personal actions bespeak the same thing as his political philosophy, and if not, when / why did he flip-flop?

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

I share personal information with people who establish trust and people who have proven ability not to attack a person based soley on their beliefs. My wife is a great companion for personal discussion. I have attack ideologies and behaviors and I have been implicated as an Apostate and as Dangerous, less Christ like than others etc. I can appreciate a genuine curiosity, but NO thank you. This forum is the last place I would advise ANYONE to share their personal life experiences and challenges with.

To the point of Ron paul not caring...
From the AUTHORIZED and PAYED for by RON PAUL 2008 PCC.

Lobbyists don't bother to visit him in Congress. WHY? Because he NEVER supports any bill that violates the CONSTITUTION or gives handouts to their bosses, no matter who they are. RON PAUL served his country as a flight surgeon. He was a popular physician who TREATED ALL IN NEED whether they could pay or not. He is a devoted husband, father, and grandfather. He grows organic tomatoes and loves the land."

Cat, Ron PAUL was a surgeon and in the military, which may explain your question. I realize and have stated that because of the socialist and fascist system MANY ARE FORCED into subservient positions. I do not attack people for being in such position nor do I attack the people who come to our country illegally to better their lives. I attack the ideologies, practices and policies that have largely and almost completely created theese problems.

alabamabelle · Senior Member

Ron Paul was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He graduated from Gettysburg College and the Duke University School of Medicine, before proudly serving as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force during the 1960s.

I think Cat (and I) have valid reasons for asking just where the money for his education came from! If he was indeed (AS HIS OWN WEBSITE SAYS) educated PRIOR to his military service, then the money for school came from somewhere else.

Is his family independently wealthy? And if so, that CERTAINLY colors the debate before us. People who have access to unlimited funds don't live in my neighborhood nor do they speak for me generally because they can't. They haven't experienced the same level of disinterest from both insurance companies and state programs/federal programs. They have the MONEY to pay the difference!

If he participated in government grants, loans or guaranteed educational subsidy, then he is being disingenuous in NOT taking on patients on governmental support.

And 'hiddentreasuredotws', I am truly sorry that you feel attacked. No one DID attack you personally or otherwise. All we asked for was substantiation of the 'facts' you were using.

That isn't an attack, it's a dialogue.

If you want us to SEE your candidate the way YOU see him, SHOW US THE MONEY, as the saying goes.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

Heres what I have learned about Ron Paul.

Ron's first job at age 5 was to watch his uncle wash empty bottles and put them on a conveyer belt. He got a penny for every dirty bottle that he found.

Ron delivered newspapers in grade school early in the morning, back in the days when newsies had to put the papers inside the screen doors and not just throw them in the yard. And he mowed a lot of lawns with a push lawnmower. He paid for his first year of college with newspaper and lawn-mowing money.

During high school, he worked in a drug store, and also had a part-time job painting the school in the summer and delivering furniture for a local store.

Ron was a track star in high school, winning state as a junior in the 220-yard dash and in the 440. He ran the 100 in 9.8, and that was pretty fast for the early 1950s. He was also on the wrestling team. He was president of the student council and an honor student while working and participating in sports.

In college, he delivered laundry, and he even delivered mail during the Christmas holidays.

He married in 1957, and he and his wife spent his last semester in college living on the third floor of an old home in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. His wife worked as secretary to the faculty and attended some evening classes with Ron. For one year Ron was manager of the college coffee shop called "The Bullet Hole." He also worked as steward and house manager for his fraternity, and had a small scholastic scholarship to help finance his way through college.

Ron attended Duke University School of Medicine, and his wife worked as a medical secretary. Their first two children were born at Duke.

After medical school, they lived in Detroit, Michigan, where Ron did an internship and one year of an Internal Medicine Residency. His wife ran a dancing school in the basement of our home and taught ballet and tap dancing and baton twirling.

Even when Ron was in the military, both Ron and his wife kept working. She learned to cake decorate, and he worked extra emergency-room duty.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/paul-carol1.html

-- Edited by lundbaek at 17:09, 2007-12-15

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I commented on another thread how I don't "feel" right about Huckabee. Just a feeling that he has something to hide.

One thing that does strike me about Ron Paul is that I feel like he has great honesty. He's very transparent and doesn't appear to hide a dang thing. If you don't like it, that's really not going to change him one way or the other.

I actually think he would be awesome on the Supreme Court. He could really make some difference there.

alabamabelle · Senior Member

I didn't think Ron Paul was running for the Supreme Court. By all means, he should run for the SCOTUS.

Oh, wait, aren't those all appointed positions from the POTUS at the time of a vacancy since the Supremes are all lifetime appointees??

Now I'm confused.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

They're appointed positions. What's so confusing? Romney could appoint him, of course.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

He could be appointed, but the man has no credentials to qualify him as a Supreme Court Justice, and would stand no chance of getting ratified by Congress as a result.

Seems to me there is that little thing of needing to be a lawyer in the first place... And it is Dr. Ron Paul, is it not? Not Dr. Ron Paul, Esq.

Maybe he could be appointed Justice of the Peace or something like that back in his home district.

DaKnife · Senior Member

Actually, The Constitution makes no specific requirements as to background for appointment.

So a Legal background is not required, it would, as Cat noted, just be very hard to get someone without such a background through a Senate Confirmation.

-- Edited by DaKnife at 10:03, 2007-12-16

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Man, I forgot judges are usually lawyers first.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

DaKnife wrote:
Actually, The Constitution makes no specific requirements as to background for appointment.

So a Legal background is not required, it would, as Cat noted, just be very hard to get someone without such a background through a Senate Confirmation.

Which is, unfortunately, a recent development. In the past few decades, all of the justices have had an extensive legal if not judicial background.

It wasn't always that way. Historically speaking, almost half of the justices who have served had no judicial experience, and while some still had been lawyers, many had not.

Ron Paul certainly has the constitutional expertise to serve, but as DaKnife said, getting him through Senate confirmation would be pretty hard--the precedent has been set.

DaKnife · Senior Member

That settles it. Cat for SCOTUS! Next time there is an opening we should all start a mass email campaign in support of Catherder being nominated. wink

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks NO!

Since I tick people off here so much, if I were there, I imagine I'd become a victim of modern day gadiantans seeking my judgement seat...

And dangit, I have been know to get light headed when the nurse draws blood at the doctors office! Me and long sharp knives pointed at me... I can't imagine we would get along too well. I'd probably faint and hit my head against the judgement bar before the gadiantan assasin could even stab me!

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Well, then we certainly can't put your ambitious little self in the senate, Julius, I mean Cat.

What about a cabinet position? Lots of authority and responsibility, pretty low visibility. Of course, that means we need to get probably Bok into the oval office so she could appoint you--national fireworks on a daily basis, not just on July 4th!

-- Edited by Roper at 20:52, 2007-12-16

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Et tu, Roper-e?

Nah, just give me a couple legions, and I'm good...

(speaking of legions, anyone notice the cool Roman Playmobil stuff available now? I think I may order a small army of romans and a trireme or two and take on beserker warrior son's army of assorted Playmobil pirates and knights :woot: hint hint, anyone wanting to get me something for Christmas, that would be acceptable, and of course beserker warrior son would probably love you for it too as it would end up in his domain...

)

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Coco and her huge ... tracts of land are not saying a word.