Moderation concerns regarding the LDS discussion forum

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Moderation concerns regarding the LDS discussion forum

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

fear of shiz wrote:

Sometimes anger is appropriate. Especially when someone violates your rights or boundaries in some way.

What rights have been violated?

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

That's been covered by several people in this thread already.

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cocobeem wrote:

I'm not feeling inclined to go away until I think something has been resolved. It appears Cat has already gone away, since he said:

"And that is all the time, energy, and effort I am going to waste on this."

I find that unfortunate, if he has closed himself off from communication on the matter some felt important enough to actually bring up.

If it's not worth the effort, and if there won't be any effort at resolution, maybe Cat Herder would prefer to trade with another moderator, or have someone take over for him.

As far as what you should do when things are getting extraordinary potential to blow up, Cat, I would say sit back and let us be grownups and handle things if and when they do blow up. "Potential" is really, really subjective.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Cocobeem wrote:

I'm not feeling inclined to go away until I think something has been resolved. It appears Cat has already gone away, since he said:

"And that is all the time, energy, and effort I am going to waste on this."

I find that unfortunate, if he has closed himself off from communication on the matter some felt important enough to actually bring up.

The comment "And that is all the time, energy, and effort I am going to waste on this" was made in conjunction to the ongoing comments others are making about me personally or my motives.

Not in conjunction with what the issue here is supposed to be about... which is whether or not Cat Herder as Moderator was wrong for making the request made that upset two, three, four, five, or more of you.

I can't seem to say anything without someone getting in a huff about it.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

fear of shiz wrote:

That's been covered by several people in this thread already.

No actually it's been insinuated.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Arbi: Your last post was more or less exactly what Cat did... only with less words.

Okay... enough play... here's my thoughts... unfettered by my hope that we'd just all turn the other cheek...

If you examine what actually occurred, it's clear to me that some people resent the authority that Cat was entrusted with, and don't like being told when they border disruption.

I disagree that Cat should be removed as moderator. He does a good job. He cares about the Gospel and in terms of the standards he tries to enforce, they're pretty well known by most of us... essentially they are written in the "For the Strength of the Youth" Pamphlet. Go read it. :)

I think it's an overly punative and vindictively shallow solution to move him out of a couple disgrunted poster's way...

But if that's the solution people want to vote on, then let's start a new thread with a poll stating whether or not he should be ousted as a moderator. And you can all vote on it.

There are consequences to forum rigidity that I think some of you who "claim" your freedoms are being impinged upon, should consider more deeply than your own personal biases against a certain person that rubbed you wrong once upon a time...

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

As I understand it so far, the feedback from the moderators has been thus: Roper feels that a reminder to keep it cool is fine, but the way Cat did it was vague and should have referenced specific rules. Ray feels that there was no problem with Cat's moderation, and that a big deal is being made of nothing.
If I have incorrectly understood your positions, please correct me.
If Polly's situation enables her to provide feedback, she will be the tie breaker vote. If not, I will take that step, although I prefer not to.
We haven't really done this much, so I'd like feedback about what people would like to see happen if the consensus of the moderators is that the action was inappropriate. I'm not sure what options would be best. Technically, they range between the extremes of doing nothing to removing Cat's moderator privileges. In between those two extremes are editing said moderation or simply deleting it, or a public statement that the moderation was incorrect and encouraging Cat to do better in the future. I would encourage other suggestions.
Of course, if Polly decides that there was no problem, then no action need be taken.

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

To be clear, I'm not saying Cat should be removed. I'm really not. I understood that he was saying all this grief isn't worth it to him, and I was just saying that if it's causing him that much distress, maybe HE MIGHT WANT TO MAKE THE DECISION to be moved.

I've said what I think should happen in previous posts so I'll step away now.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Roper wrote:
The expectation hasn't been formally stated that all discussions in the LDS area will stay on topic and conform to a standard of "edifying." In the Strengthen Thy Brethren area, we do have a statement giving the expectation that discussion will be uplifting. So I won't fault members for not meeting expectations that haven't been clearly stated. Most topics drift--that's the nature of discussion boards.

Additionally, I can see how "I might start exercising power to close threads" might be interpreted as authoritarian.

That said, I think Cat did a commendable job on each occasion to communicate without giving offense. He was clear and polite. My opinion is that some seemed to take offense where none was intended.

If we're to have expectations like those discussed above for certain areas of the forum, I believe we need to seek consensus on those expectations and have them clearly stated. I'd rather not go that route. I'd rather leave things pretty much the way they are, with this very process serving as mediation for discussions that develop into perceived conflict.

What Roper said...

TitusTodd wrote:
1) I think it is within Cat's moderation responsibilities to warn about comments that may be going the contentious direction in order to keep the tone of the discussion proper. Such a warning should be an opportunity to review our comments more closely as the discussion continues to avoid getting contentious or getting more contentious.

2) While a moderator (from my interpretation of things) has the ability to make sure a discussion belongs where it does (LDS Discussions, Humor, etc.), a moderator does not have the responsibility of keeping the discussion within a certain parameter of the original post. As already stated, the progression of a discussion can expand and still be "in touch" with the original post. It should be up to the post originator to reign things back in if they wish to keep the topic more narrow and if that attempt does not work to their satisfaction than perhaps request moderation (such as closing the thread to further discussion).

And what TT said...

Arbi... if you are looking at me to make a deciding vote that will have to be it... I can't seem to focus in on what much of the fuss is... I applied bolding to the comments that were my thoughts...

Frankly IMO everyone's feeling are too exposed and over the top. We need to stop being so easily offended people... all of us (myself included!)... I'd like to suggest that everyone turn their prayers inward the next time they "think" something is hurtful... I would also like to remind everyone that not one person that helps in moderating here does it for "kicks". It is at times a very thankless job that must be done. No two moderators are alike and I don't really want someone else telling ME how to moderate the three areas I moderate... so I sure as shootin' won't be tellin' someone else what stuff should be moderated in their areas... I can't even begin to tell you the times someone has sent me a PM saying... "can you believe what X said about Y in the "name your favorite political thread"...

I would also like to remind us all that we have a rsponsibility to give EVERYONE the benefit of doubt. If YOU think you have been misunderstood and stepped on it a sure thing that you are NOT alone...

-- Edited by PollyAnna at 23:33, 2007-10-18

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

fear of shiz wrote:
Sometimes anger is appropriate. Especially when someone violates your rights or boundaries in some way.

I disagree... Anger is an enemy to the spirit. Once the spirit leaves the room anger can then rear it's ugly head in ernest... To quote our beloved prophet:

A proverb in the Old Testament states: He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city (Proverbs 16:32).

It is when we become angry that we get into trouble. The road rage that affects our highways is a hateful expression of anger. I dare say that most of the inmates of our prisons are there because they did something when they were angry. In their wrath they swore, they lost control of themselves, and terrible things followed, even murder. There were moments of offense followed by years of regret.

-- Edited by PollyAnna at 23:30, 2007-10-18

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cat Herder wrote:
I can't seem to say anything without someone getting in a huff about it.

FTR Cat... not a thing you have said or done has put me in a huff (at least not in regards to this discussion)...

I think sometimes you may underestimate other's abilities to patrol themselves... but I don't believe your desire has been to cause contention...

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

FTR.. . There is no way for any person to be 100% objective. We all have opinion... I couldn't care less about anyone's politics, but I find myself sometimes thinking, at times... Geez, how dumb and pointless is THIS discussion??? Then I just sort of keep an eye on things... generally... so that it doesn't become a name calling hassle.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Hey can I be the moderator of Food and Water Storage & Non food preparedness sections so I can impose my apocalyptic perceptions of all things Provident Living (except Arts and Crafts, I'm not sure even I can apocalyptically perceive those areas) on the site?

This post brought to you by Reynolds Wrap, Remington, Van Camps, Riceland and Rogmo.com.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

You mean mirk hasn't been the Apocalyptic Moderator all along?!? Something's wrong with this picture.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

He is MY Apocalyptic Moderator... If he says I need it I must... Except for guns... but he understands me on that one and has given me the go ahead to be okay with OUR choice... ;)

[/derail]

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

PollyAnna wrote:

He is MY Apocalyptic Moderator... If he says I need it I must... Except for guns... but he understands me on that one and has given me the go ahead to be okay with OUR choice... ;)

[/derail]

:thumbsupicon:

I forgot we had that conversation, but I remember it now!

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Sheesh... mirk has so many groupies he can't keep us all straight. Even I remember that conversation. rolleyes