And Nothing Shall Offend Them

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

And Nothing Shall Offend Them

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Good talk... I think we can all learn from this, especially here on the message board, where we have a tendency to give and take offense like it were some kind of virus... or money changing hands... or like a freeway with cars passing back and forth upon it... or like a the water cycle, constantly evaporating and condensing and running off and evaporating again... or like a wallaby and a turnip waltzing to the music of a tango...

--Ray

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

I like the way Elder Bednar expresses this concept:

Endowed with agency, you and I are agents, and we primarily are to act and not just be acted upon. To believe that someone or something can make us feel offended, angry, hurt, or bitter diminishes our moral agency and transforms us into objects to be acted upon. As agents, however, you and I have the power to act and to choose how we will respond to an offensive or hurtful situation.

Eleanor Roosevelt put it this way:

No one can make you feel inferior without your permission.

Sometimes, even the language we use perpetuates the dysfunction:

You make me so mad.

You hurt my feelings.

Why do we do that? Why do we want others to be responsible for our feelings? Do we really want to give them control over something as intimate as our own feelings? Do we really want them to have that kind of power over us--to "make" us feel a certain way? To manipulate us?

Maybe that's one of the things that made Satan's rebellion so attractive--not having to take individual resposiblity for anything, even our own feelings. Surely he would do it, so give him the honor. And the control.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I have a couple of good friends who are a "couple" married and all that...

They are really good at communicating. They have a tendency to phrase their discussions like so, "When you said X, I felt Y." Sometimes it's a little hoakie, and I used to roll my eyes a lot , because they were constantly talking about how the other's actions affected them and their feelings, and were very sensitive to each other.

But they had a very conflict free relationship as a result.

Our feelings aren't always predictable, but we have ultimate control on where they take us. Stephen E. Robinson observes that not just our nature, or our intellects or our physical bodies are "fallen" but also our emotions are fallen. Just as some people have great physical challenges in this life, there are others who may have great emotional challenges, and we should be sensitive to that, I think...

Once in a while, I think it's okay to feel offended, but not to be offended.

--Ray

-- Edited by rayb at 00:35, 2006-11-21

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

rayb wrote:

I have a couple of good friends who are a "couple" married and all that...

They are really good at communicating. They have a tendency to phrase their discussions like so, "When you said X, I felt Y." Sometimes it's a little hoakie, and I used to roll my eyes a lot , because they were constantly talking about how the other's actions affected them and their feelings, and were very sensitive to each other.

But they had a very conflict free relationship as a result.

-- Edited by rayb at 00:35, 2006-11-21

Are they both women? If not I feel sorry for that guy. Sounds like a super high maintenance relationship.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

that was my gut instinct at first too, but honestly he just makes it work. I admire him.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

rayb wrote:

They have a tendency to phrase their discussions like so, "When you said X, I felt Y." Sometimes it's a little hoakie, and I used to roll my eyes a lot , because they were constantly talking about how the other's actions affected them and their feelings, and were very sensitive to each other.

I can relate. Sister Roper has a master's degree in counseling. We've never been able to have a really good argument--you know, the kind where you yell and say intentionally hurtful things and slam doors and then have a lot of fun making up afterwords. I mean, we make up and all, but I think it would be better with a good deal of drama beforehand

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Who wants to deal with drama. I'm not an actor. Fortunately my wife and I after 13 years of marriage don't fight that much. We usually just ignore eachother anyway! I can't stand those high maintenance relationships with unreasonable expectations for romantic gestures and over the top communication sessions.

Ode to Jason:

Frankly, that's just too much work. I'd rather be single again than go through the drama of a sitcom like marriage. I'm a man, gosh dangett! I eat red meat and chilli as an appetizer. I shoot small defenseless animals and eat em before the flies have time to find their guts. Vegetables are not food, vegetables are what food eats! I like fast cars that are loud and motorcycles that are dangerous. I like powerful motors and tools that cut things. I like the smell of sawdust and the sparks metal makes when you cut it. I like trucks, tractors, and big earth movers. I like tanks, and fighter jets, and things that go boom. I like action fliks, westerns, war movies, and horror. I'm a man. I don't do tulips, and long conversations about poetry. I don't talk endlessly about my feelings or speculate about peace. I run on DOS and do not multitask well and my hearing sometimes is working and sometimes it's not. The sale at JC Pennies or Walmart doesn't interest me unless it involves camoflage clothing, fishing tackle, or ammunition. Your hair and make up are irrelevent to me at this point. I married you. If I didn't like it before I wouldn't have married you. If you change it and ask me what I think I will tell you. If you bring me a problem I will try and solve it. It's in my genes, that's who I am. Don't try to make me into something I'm not or never was meant to be. If I was doing it while we dated and you didn't mind you probably should not try changing it now. I hate wearing neckties, collars, and pants that tear easy. I like T-shirts and blue jeans and boots that look used. I like camoflage and black and colors that are simple. Don't ask me if I like that mauve or puse sweater. I hate dinners with small portions or resturants too classy. I get my hair cut at man places by guys name Bud, Bob, and Steve not Jean Luc, Willam, or Stephaan. I don't make appointments for picture taking or getting my oil changed. I don't sweat the small stuff and could care less about what color the curtains or bath towells are. As long as they work and their mostly clean I'm good to go. The kids are a bit dirty or play a bit rough, that's OK with me as long as they are outside and no one has broken a bone or is bleeding profusely. Kids are not pets or models or plants. They're kids gosh darnet so let em be kids. That's who I am, that's who you married. You married a man not a girlfriend, a sister, a shrink, or a puppy. I'm not your daddy or your brother and don't expect to be treated or talked to like that. I'm not a child either who needs to be nagged. I remember the project or the thing that you need, I just choose not to do it until I am ready. I don't ask for directions because I can read a map. It's a man thing. You can accept it or not. It makes no such difference to me whether or not you think that the world would be a much better place if men were more like women and less like big Apes!

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

I think one of the things that is actually learned through the sort of discussion that Ray describes is that it forces both people or parties to move out of their private comfort zone so that they are not forcing everything through their individual rose colored filters.

Is it hokey? You betcha. And it even feels hokey at first. Mrs. Cat Herder and I can attest to that, as we had to develop that sort of communication at one point when we were seeing a counselor to help us both through some depression. But, after we got used to it, it was such a nice feeling to not feel like we were just as well talking to the wall. We don't always use it now, but when we do, it does help us see beyond the face value preconceived notion we may have of the situation.

Any relationship is going to be high maintenance if both parties do not develop some thick skin and learn to not be offended at every little thing.

Hear ya on the drama and making up thing, roper, but unfortunately I don't think the womens do very well with that... Once, twice, or maybe three times will work for them, but beyond that, they just don't seem to relish that "the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat" feeling when it comes to a close relationship.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Cat Herder wrote:

Any relationship is going to be high maintenance if both parties do not develop some thick skin and learn to not be offended at every little thing.

Bingo! We have a winner! Johnny, tell us what he has won.....Well Jason, Cat has won an all expense, trip to the Tomacolatte Headquarters and manufacturing facility for two!

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Woo-hoo! And to think we fooled the judges into their not realizing I am not only an employee of Tomacolatte Inc, but a principle of said firm! And it only required several carbon credits and tomacolate oil options...

Do you think I should wear a disguise so that the peons... er I mean hardworking and yet underpaid underage persons that produce our quality product... do not recognize me?

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Already thought of that Cat. I've got that Burger King Big Buckin Chicken Costume. This way we can also write off any additional expenses under "plant inspection" expense.