It has absolutely zero impact on how I live the gospel here and now. All of the speculation is a complete waste of time for me, and uses up the precious few processor cycles my brain has to spare.
-- Edited by Roper at 13:28, 2006-11-11
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
Roper, I think it's important to understand the history of polygamy in the church, because at some point someone will ask you about it. But you are right in that a debate of the topic goes nowhere. It was practiced earlier in the church, and it was instituted of God. But farther than that, it's best to worry about it seriously only if God brings it back again.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Unfortunately, anything that my current GD teacher presents. The poor kid is a baaaaaaaad teacher. I admit to playing hooky from hours 2 and 3 several times in the last few months due to an inability to face the lessons.
I think Ray is calling for a revolt in your GD class, Bok!
I do have to admit that since I was released as a sunday school teacher early in the year, I usually play hooky from GD and sunday school myself. Not so much the teacher, but the fact I have no clue what is going to be gone over. I hate the awkward silence of not being able to participate since it is always the same few who participate anyway, and I'm not at the same spiritual level of knowledge as past bishops, the temple president, a former mission president, let alone the folks who actually have read the "assigned" chapters for the week...
At least, when I get asked to teach EQ every month or so, I am almost certain that most of the Elders will not be in town or will play hookey, and that those who are there, maybe only the quorum presidency will have actually picked up the Wilford Woodruff manual before the meeting... So, I can get away with letting the Spirit "guide me" on these lessons that often have been prepared partially during the time I was playing hookey from GD...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Cat!? I can't believe you're one of "those people" who plays hooky during Sunday School. I hold such people in low esteem... I know you and "your ilk" have "good reasons" but it is such a poor example for the children whom we expect to go to class... it's akin to asking kids to be reverent and then you don't...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I hate going to gospel doctrine. There are too many folks in there who think they know it all or are just plane crazy. I would hate to teach that class because too many people have their own crazy theories and the poor teacher has to try and keep order. So in our GD class nothing is boring but I gain little from it. I can get more by using the study guide myself. I used to teach the teens from the same manuals and really enjoyed it. Now it is just another Sunday circus to be endured kind of like Fast and Testimony Meeting. Every first sunday the member of the Bishopric gets up and bears his testimony and then goes into detail of what bearing your testimony is about and how you should bear your testimony. Right as soon as they yield the pulpit the crazies get up and start blathering about vacations, work, visions they have had, near death experiences, etc. One guy went on and on last Fast Sunday about fixing a jet. After 10 minutes I still didn't know what the heck he was talking about or why. Some of us in the congregation were doing all within our power not to start laughing hysterically. The bishopric has talked to these individuals and we have had the stake presidency talk on testimonies but to no avail. I suggest using a trap door, turning off the mike, moving the podium up and down, and even a hook to get these folks to see the light. It has gotten so bad that the running joke is "how many crazies will speak today" or if we get three crazies in a row we call it the "Testimony Meeting Trifecta". Several of us will give the thumbs up to eachother when we see a loon heading to the podium. It is also entertaining watching the Bishopric start to squirm. Then after sacrament meeting we get together for a quick re-cap and scoring. It is beyond the normal travelogues you would expect. Most often we can't figure out how it ties into the gospel or their testimony (bonus points). Bonus points also if you go into tears during your dissertation on something and never tie it in to the gospel. Sharing of visions and near death experiences gets the most points especially when they involve strange creatures and cannot be related to the gospel. I personally like when the long goodbye happens. This is when people get up and tell how much they are going to miss sister Jones. After about the fifth goodbye to sister Jones I think they should form a support group!
I would like to say that Priesthood meeting was better but these same folks have to chime in there too. We went 15 minutes over last time because these loons kept going on and on in their stories. Luckilly, with a manual you can read it over and get something out of the lesson. My relatives in other wards have even told me that while their wards have some folks with problems that our ward has it much worse than anywhere else. YEA!!! WERE #1!
There have been sundays when I have contemplated the speakers and nutballs being ejected by a spring loaded floor panel through the roof and out the building or strapping an explosive vest over them and activating it.
Well then, you'll just have to start raising the level of esteem you hold us hookey players in. Playing hookey during GD is better than playing hockey!
Besides, I'm sustaining the GD teacher by not going in with the expectation of being entertained.... yea, if I verily can not contribute to the spirit, that all are edified, then I must of necessity be detracting from it... Someone has to be the husband of the meetinghouse librarian and provide her moral support (and changing the nursery child-thing's diaper when they bring her to her) for not getting to go to Sunday School. Someone also has to be outside to provide spiritual and social sustenance to the Lobbial Parents of the Pre-nursery Age Crumb Grinding Association. And, since the Sunday School presidency is usually tied up teaching a class or is not at church themself, and since the Bishopric is often absent from class doing bishopricly duties or doing primary visits or what have you, someone has to take the roll of herding the teens (almost as tough as herding cats) to their classes (despite the sheer hypocrisy that they don't see since they would have to still be out in the hall to know I hadn't gone to GD ). And, someone has to watch our 15 year old autistic son during the 2nd hour if his assigned helper isn't there on Sunday.
Hmmm I could come up with more excuses, but then I'd have to kill ya! Hey, at least I don't run out of the building as soon as the amen is said to the closing prayer in Sacrament meeting (we have our share of them in our ward). The majority of the adults in our ward who do not leave after Sacrament meeting are themselves busy in stake or primary or sunday school callings or have little ones too old to sit still another hour and yet not old enough for nursery, which pretty much excludes them from regular GD attendance. I know, I no longer fit into any of those categories, so I am without excuse...
Hey, I provided a copy of a couple poems I wrote in past years to our GD teacher as followup on a topic she had gone over the last time I attended (sometime in mid October... we only had like one or two sundays with Sunday School anyway, between General Conference, Ward Conference, and Stake Conference), so that counts as at least participation in 3 or 4 lessons in my book!
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I hate to get all preachy and holy roller on ya, Cat and Jase, but these attitudes perpetuate part of the problem. (Okay I confess... I really don't hate it. I delight in bugging you two... )
When you were on your mission and the members of the church did strange things, didn't you, as a missionary, feel an obligation to try to make things better, or to try to help your investigators feel the Spirit, even if one of the members went off on the Holy Ghost being a woman alien who birthed some Adamic Heavenly Father on Kolob?
Members alive in Christ should do their darndest that the confusion and misdirection that the Devil exploits in all our personalities is overcome. If you don't think you can make things better, you can at least be there... the simple example of being there communicates something about you... And I testify that you can find Christ even in these less than perfect moments and you can learn profound things about yourself, just by putting yourself in the right place. That's been my experience.
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
See, I just avoid Gospel Doctrine all together and go to Gospel Principles. I am a ward missionary though. Although Gospel Doctrine in a student ward isn't nearly as bad as in a regular ward. I usually have no clue what's going on in GD in my home ward...it's usually trucking stories from my old bishop (who they turned into a GD teacher...after we have all heard his stories countless times). I guess there are perks to being in a student ward.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
I hate to get all preachy and holy roller on ya, Cat and Jase, but these attitudes perpetuate part of the problem. (Okay I confess... I really don't hate it. I delight in bugging you two... )
When you were on your mission and the members of the church did strange things, didn't you, as a missionary, feel an obligation to try to make things better, or to try to help your investigators feel the Spirit, even if one of the members went off on the Holy Ghost being a woman alien who birthed some Adamic Heavenly Father on Kolob?
Members alive in Christ should do their darndest that the confusion and misdirection that the Devil exploits in all our personalities is overcome. If you don't think you can make things better, you can at least be there... the simple example of being there communicates something about you... And I testify that you can find Christ even in these less than perfect moments and you can learn profound things about yourself, just by putting yourself in the right place. That's been my experience.
--Ray
Great Ray, be positive. That's what I was looking for!
bokbadok wrote: Once again I am reminded that God has an ironic sense of humor.
Ahem. I have been asked to substitute teach Gospel Doctrine this Sunday.
Thought y'all would get a kick out of that.
I think I have something that is going to require my leaving right after the closing prayer in Sacrament meeting... hmmm... let me check my schedule, I know it should be there...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Get back into class! All of you! Don't make me use an unspecified and vague threat!
Actually, today I was just made 1st Counselor in the Sunday School presidency, so it actually is my job now to herd people into their classes. So, this thread has been instructive.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
I had a variety of things that kept me from getting into Sunday School yesterday (including the Stake President's wife needing to fit me in a costume for an upcoming event...), and by the time I was free to go in, they were letting out.
Arbi, as a former 1st Counselor in the Sunday School Presidency, let me just say... your best tool for getting people (adults) into class is by the example of ward leadership. If people see them going and putting importance into attendance, you will have a lot of the folks like me who look for reasons to stay outside also start to follow suit. Ward leadership attendance grows and wanes in cycles, and there isn't much you can do about it, but you need to remember that you as the Sunday School presidency are responsible for making sure a climate of learning and spiritual edification is there for everyone in the ward, particulalry during the second hour of the block schedule. That is how you guys make life easier for the Bishopric.
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I could come up with more excuses, but then I'd have to kill ya! 
