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Post Info TOPIC: Network Neutrality


Understander of unimportant things

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Network Neutrality


I'm not sure how current this topic still is, but it is probably something that should be discussed.


How many of you know what Network Neutrality is?


If you are anything like our EQ yesterday when the fellow (who works for the same firm as me) who was leading the discussion started the lesson with that question, then I can imagine most of you giving me back... I'll explain later how he used it to start a lesson from The Teachings of Wilford Woodruff manual...


Here, read, inform yourselves, and discuss herein.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/neutrality.asp


 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality


 


http://www.circleid.com/posts/network_neutrality/


 


http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=1234951


 



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Wise and Revered Master

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I'm more of a full disclosure type of guy.  If I know that using XYZ will get me results for brand ABC then I have no problem.  If though I am not informed that using XYZ will get me that result then I am not happy.  Basically, if I know what I am getting then I really don't have much to complain about.  If on the other hand I am being hoodwinked then I have a problem.  Clear as mud?  I hate more regulation.  If the market is truly free I say let it work itself out.  If on the other hand I am not given a choice then I say make a law.  I can't choose my cable company, my power provider, or my local phone service provider so I expect the government to make sure I'm not getting fleeced or taken advantage of.  If I have choice then let the market decide.

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Jason



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For someone who uses the internet everyday, I am embarrassed to admit I hadn't heard of Network Neutrality until this post.  Then, I saw a program on it this evening (Moyers on America:  The Internet Divide - http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/net/index.html).


I'm still working out my thoughts on it.  I'm not big on regulation but I'm also not confident in leaving the internet to the telecoms.  If the telecoms had built the infrastructure they promised to maybe this would not be the issue it is...at least not until later in the future.  I have to do more reading from different perspectives before I can come to a conclusion.  I actually believe in the possibility that some things should be regulated by the government but I just don't know yet if this is one of them.


I would really like to see some additional comments on this.  I think it is an important issue.



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LONDON —  The Republican head of a U.S. congressional committee said it would be a mistake if the Internal Revenue Service introduced regulations to tax virtual economies such as "Second Life" and "World of Warcraft."


Rep. Jim Saxton of New Jersey, chairman of the Joint Economic Committee, confirmed on Tuesday a Reuters report that the committee was studying the public policy and tax issues related to virtual economies.


"There is a concern that the IRS might step forward with regulations that start taxing transactions that occur within virtual economies. This, I believe, would be a mistake," Saxton said in a statement released on Tuesday.


 


"Second Life" is a virtual world on the Internet where some 900,000 users have signed up to create characters, buy property and interact with other players. Players spend around $350,000 a day on average, or about $130 million a year, and usage is growing in double-digit terms each month.


Players buy and sell goods and services using a virtual currency, known as "Linden Dollars." An online marketplace allows users to convert the currency into real U.S. dollars, enabling users to earn real money from their activities.


 


Saxton said such virtual economies have outpaced the law.


"The goal of the forthcoming Joint Economic Committee study is to help lawmakers understand the issues involved and head off any premature attempt to impose a tax on virtual economies," he said.


Under current law, Saxton said if a transaction takes place solely within a virtual world there is no "taxable event."


Dan Miller, chief economist for the Joint Economic Committee, said earlier this week that the committee's study would start with a blank slate and be completed by the end of the year.


"Second Life" has attracted the participation of such companies as Toyota (TM) and computer maker Sun Microsystems (SUNW).


Adidas and American Apparel sell clothes and accessories for people to dress their avatars (animated characters) and Starwood Hotels (HOT) has built a virtual version of "aloft," a new hotel chain it plans to open in the real world in 2008.


 


From http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222402,00.html


 


 


Its not just the Network Neutrality proposal that is making its way.



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Wise and Revered Master

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So let me get this strait....


Fake money buying fake things in a video game and some think it should be taxed?  OK?


I guess if you had to pay the tax in fake money then what would the IRS gain?


Oh right, more power, increased control over our lives, more employees, etc.


Someone's riding the train to crazy town again!



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Jason



Senior Bucketkeeper

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I think An online marketplace allows users to convert the currency into real U.S. dollars, enabling users to earn real money from their activities. is the salient point as far as taxation...

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Wise and Revered Master

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I think I'll just stick with real world commerce and leave everything else to Keanu Reeves.

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Jason



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By the way, I played Halo for the first time last night.  It was fun.

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Understander of unimportant things

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Okay, since it seems this discussion is not really going anywhere, in a nutshell, Network Neutrality is basically the cable and phone companies (e.g. owners of most of the routing infrastructure in the internet) want to be able to have the legal right to limit access to the internet to those who will pay a premium for it.  As I understand it, the implications are pretty much three fold:



  1. Unless you want to pay higher fees for your website, you as a small business or non-profit or individual, may not be able to have your website accessible to the "higher tiers" of internet users.  It creates real barriers to entry for new entrants and for small entities (like Mom and Pop's) that don't have the monetary resources of a Fortune 500 or even a traditional brick and mortar "Small" (in legal sense) business.

  2. As a surfer of the net, it means you will:


    1. be limited in your choices by the various provider you go through because they will be filtering search results to be the things they want you to patronize (their clients on the other end);

    2. end up paying more for your services or products purchased through the internet as these expenses on business start getting passed on to the consumer;

  3. Essentially the internet in the US and it's backbone becomes nothing more than a group of subscription based "gateway" services like AOL.

There would be no governance set up to keep the cable and phone providers from charging ridiculously, because this is not a public utility in the traditional sense.  It would be market forces, and they are a consortium that has monopoly power in the market, and typically have limited competition in local markets (and as the continue to merge and consolidate, this becomes an ever greater concern).



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Wise and Revered Master

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Jeffery_LQ1W wrote:



By the way, I played Halo for the first time last night.  It was fun.



Halo 1 or Halo 2.  Did you play multiplayer or the regular levels.  Halo 2 is the most fun when played multiplayer.


As far Cat's last post, I think I will now have to side with him.  That sort of control over content is unreasonable.



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Jason



Head Chef

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I think this is a horrible situation, but I don't want the government stepping in and regulating the internet even more. So I've stayed out of the discussion so far because I don't really have anything substantive to add.

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The internet is such a major communication tool now, I don't want to see that limited.  Most corporations have their eye on profit (as I believe they should) but when they lose sight of what they should do (as promised and agreed - telecoms promised us a fiber optic network that still has not surfaced despite promises made in return for less regulation which meant higher fees for infrastructure they directed to profits instead), they have lost their ethical footing.  I'm for the continuance of network neutrality.

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 07:53, 2006-10-20

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Understander of unimportant things

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This is a clear instance of where the government needs to step in instead of taking a laizees faire (sic?) approach.  It isn't about the government creating a bureaucracy and heaps of regulations, it is about the government passing laws that prevent the control of content being limited by telecommunications companies.  You don't need a bureaucracy in place to put the law in place to stop it and ensure network neutrality.  But if the move towards removing network neutrality isn't stopped, then there will need to be a bureaucracy established to regulate and watchdog the telecommunications companies to ensure there is no monopolistic extortion activities against consumers is going on.  Clearly, failure by the federal government to act in a manner that legally ensures for consumers and binds compliance to network neutrality upon the telecommunications firms is the same thing as the paradigm of "for evil to succeed, it needs nothing more than for good men and women to do nothing."


If a law establishing network neutrality is not passed, do you think that the owners of the routers and content manager hardware and the like is going to allow such things like general conference or the church's website to have free access to all the world?  A lot of TV stations stopped carrying "public service" announcements due to similar lack of oversight.  They were no longer required to do so.  The internet does not need to follow that same path of corporate greed.


Note:  This concept of content control is NOT the same thing as controlling / preventing the promulgation of filth and porn via the internet.  It is purely a means by which preferential treatment will be given to the content of whomever is willing to pay the price.  So, as long as the content is not illegal, if a purveyor of filth is willing pay the money, they will get preferential treatment in visibility to users of the internet whereas Mom and Pop cottage industry maker of embroidered temple packets is not even going to be able to reach its targeted market because they can't afford to pay the fee.


Fiber optic is available and in use in telecommunications... just not for you and I.  It is used widely in firms that can afford to pay for the infrastructure.  Not everything is copper wiring anymore in internal data or voice networks, if a company can afford it.  But, I agree with you TitusTodd about any ethical footing telecommunications companies may have once had has evaporated in the light of the not so subtle move to rebuild Ma Bell, squelch competition, and raise prices to consumers while not providing anything substantial in return as far as improved infrastructure or technology.  Innovation is only used if it will turn a quick profit.



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It will probably increase the level of pornography relative to other genres simply because pornography makes more money, and less "profitable" ventures will be dropped while the more profitable ventures will be increased.  Pornography is the biggest single money maker on the internet.

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Wise and Revered Master

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Jeffery_LQ1W wrote:



It will probably increase the level of pornography relative to other genres simply because pornography makes more money, and less "profitable" ventures will be dropped while the more profitable ventures will be increased.  Pornography is the biggest single money maker on the internet.



Speaking of that filth, anyone been watching Glenn Beck's series on the smut.  I was really shocked about how crazy it has gotten on the web.  I guess I have been lucky and not run into it too much.  I never realized that the industry has exploded that much and that people (and teens) are making their own filth and puting it online.  Scary stuff.



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Jason



Hot Air Balloon

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Money is our god.

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