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Post Info TOPIC: Preparing for what ?


Profuse Pontificator

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Preparing for what ?


As long as we are concerned about preparedness, we might do well to think about some of the possible senarios and multiple senarios we probably will have to deal with.


Continued immigration from Mexico and integration of the Mexican culture into the American culture, with an accompanying increase in violent crime, especially if the Atzlan and La Raza movements catch on.


Creation of the United States of North America, the political, economic and military merging of Canada, the USA and Mexico into a socialist North American nation encompassing the three currently sovereign nations. The blueprint was laid out in a 2005 report "Building a North American Community", published by the Council on Foreign Relations. The plan is contained in a "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America".


Continued exporting of American jobs to other countries


Lowering of the standard of living of Americans


Increased taxation to support welfare and foreign aid


Increased involvement of American military forces in foreign conflicts, especially on the pretense of combating terrorism, and without constitutionally required declarations of war by Congress


Further terrorist actions world wide.


Continued giving of militarily sensitive technology to China and Russia


Continued devaluation of the US dollar caused by dilution by money created for welfare and foreign aid


Nuke and biochem attack on USA by Russia and China


I think the program given us by the Church is the best advice we can get.  Individual families and persons will have different needs which will have to prepared for and addressed individually.



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Of course, we should be prepared just because the Lord told us to. But there are plenty of good reasons to. For instance, just because the US hasn't been attacked on its own soil in a very long time doesn't mean that it won't happen again. All it takes is one crazy dictator with the means and will to do it. It doesn't matter if we would win or not. In a war situation, food storage could be vital to survival.
Also, people tend to forget that the US has been through shortages. We had the gas shortage of the 70s. We had rationing of all sorts in World War II. People who were alive at that time tell me that sugar was expensive and rare.
And what if natural disaster strikes? Did you know that most asteroids aren't catelogued and tracked? If an asteroid were coming at us from the direction of the sun, it is very unlikely that we'd know about it until it was too late. Revelations does mention a flying mountain. Wouldn't an asteroid fit that description very well? We've seen how quickly civilation can fall to pieces in New Orleans, and that's not nearly on the same scale as an asteroid hit would be.
But again, it all comes down to the best reason to have storage - we've been told by the Lord that it's important.

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Profuse Pontificator

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One thing that Katrina brought home to me was the advisability of having adequate means of protection of life and property, and having it kept handy yet safe from confiscation by civil or government agents (police, etc.)  I was apppalled that police confiscated legally owned guns from residents in New Orleans, who were then, in some cases, left at the mercy of looters. 

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So, if the police confiscate your guns, how will you protect your storage?

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bokbadok wrote:

So, if the police confiscate your guns, how will you protect your storage?



By the mercy of God? Honestly, that's the only way to protect anything in such a situation anyway. You do all that you can do, then you depend on the Lord for the rest.

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See, now I'd rather go for Priesthood Mountain Moving in that respect. Hoodlums with guns ain't afraid of my guns. Drop a mountain on some, and the rest will flee.

I'd like to see the UN Peacekeepers take my priesthood away!

Ooops, I mean my DH's priesthood. Ahem.

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You kill me!

You could just do a preemptive and move the mountains to surround your house before the looters come looking.

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Profuse Pontificator

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Hoods are basically cowards, which is why the have to resort to crime to keep themselves fed.


A firearm is not the only defence against armed intruders given a few seconds warning, but I'll not discuss that here.



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My home teacher gave a lesson on emergency preparedness one time.  He suggested that two of the most useful items, that too few people had were chainsaws, and generators.  Granted generators are a little more expensive than most of the average items you would find in a 72 hr kit, but they are quite useful when the power goes out.  Chainsaws, well I figure if you can't have guns where you  live you might get away with keeping a few chainsaws for protection.  Won't do you much good against a gun, but otherwise they can be pretty intimidating.  They are also usefull for removing the trees that fall on your house or block the road.

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lundbaek wrote:



As long as we are concerned about preparedness, we might do well to think about some of the possible senarios and multiple senarios we probably will have to deal with.





Why do we think the counsel to prepare is ONLY for "gloom and doom" type scenarios?  If you think about it, up until today, who has actually used their food storage in an emergency?  The odds are, based on the past, that none of us in our lifetimes will be in a year long earthquake, a year long war situation, an invasion of a foreign country.  So why are we counseled to have a supply on hand?


Well, most believe that the counsel to store food is for the second coming type scenario, or a world take over by the "Council on Foreign Relations."  If you believe the Prophet is a Prophet, then why has he been telling us to have food storage for decades when the second coming has not happened?  Why wouldn't he say, as Joseph of Egypt said: "you have seven years to prepare for seven years of famine" type counsel?


I think the counsel to store food is more to test our faith and obedience.  And, when we look back on our lives, the culmination of our efforts to store food will come with the realization that we have always had what we needed.  No matter what "rainy day" came along.  Be it a job change, a move, a sudden family expansion, whatever little every day challenge comes along. 


 We have lived off our food storage several times but never been in a hurricane.  It has been a bridge for us in hard times where we could supply our family with their needs, and they never knew anything was different from our normal lives.  We have dipped into our food storage countless times to send necessities to food banks or hurricane Katrina victims.  We have fired up the generator to keep our refrigerator running when a thunderstorm knocked out our power for two days.    We have cooked meals in the fireplace when snow storms knock out the power for a meal time.  And after these "little disasters," we slowly build it up again.


I am sure that sometime, some of us will have to use our guns to defend our food storage from roving gangs of thieves and hoods.  But most of us will never have that happen.  Yet we obey.  And are blessed.



-- Edited by Pink Floyd at 05:02, 2006-08-30

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I seem to remember that one of the GAs, when counseling us to have food storage, said that there would come a time when it would be as necessary to us as the ark was to Noah. That would seem to indicate that there was a specific future event that you would need it for.
But you make some very good points. You get blessed for obedience. And in one ward I was in, there was a sister who had lived in Ireland during some of the worst fighting. The Catholics and the Protestants agreed on one thing: they didn't like the mormons. So there were extended periods when they didn't leave their house, and they lived off of food storage.

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
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arbilad wrote:


I seem to remember that one of the GAs, when counseling us to have food storage, said that there would come a time when it would be as necessary to us as the ark was to Noah. That would seem to indicate that there was a specific future event that you would need it for.




Elder Ezra T. Benson said "...MAY be needed," not "WOULD be needed.'


From the standpoint of food production, storage, handling, and the Lord’s counsel, wheat should have high priority. Water, of course, is essential. Other basics could include honey or sugar, legumes, milk products or substitutes, and salt or its equivalent. The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah.


http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1974.htm/ensign%20january%201974.htm/prepare%20ye%20.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0


"Prepare Ye"


October Conference 1974, 30 years ago.


 (I give up trying to figure out linking here.  At least for now.  Sorry about the long URL that I have no idea if it will work.)



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The link works fine. Apparently here, the board is set up to just break it onto multiple lines. For future reference, there's a URL button just above your text box. It will ask for the link location (the url), then the link title (the text you want to show up).

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Okay, Testing...


I must be dense.  Right above the text box, I see


Text type and size, then Bold, then Italiac, then Underline, then justify Left, center, right, then list, bullet list, intent more, indent less, then horizontal line, then "insert web link" then "view HTML source".


When I click on "insert web link" I get a  new box that lets me drop down some things in the "hyperlink type" and url.  But when I put in URL, I get this:


http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1974.htm/ensign%20january%201974.htm/prepare%20ye%20.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0


but don't get anyplace to type "Prepare Ye" as what I want to appear here.


I tried the Prepare Ye thing like in the instruction, but can't get it to work.  Perhaps I will get Pink Katrina to look at it for me...


I feel so stupid sometimes...



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I don't think it's you, PF. It should work just like the nauvoo url, and it doesn't. At least not today.

perhaps we should alert the boss of the board. Arbi?

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Prepare Ye

It seems to be working for me...

Edit: fixed the link. When I copied it over multiple lines, it added a space which created an error.

-- Edited by Euphrasie at 16:28, 2006-08-30

-- Edited by Euphrasie at 16:29, 2006-08-30

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Euphrasie wrote:


Prepare Ye

It seems to be working for me...




I get an error message when I click it on your link.  But you got further than I did.  I still don't see the button you are talking about.

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Huh. Your options are different than mine. About the text box, I have

Topic: RE: Preparing for what ?

Comment:
|B| |I| |U| |IMG| |URL| |@| |Color drop down box| |Size drop down box|
|QUOTE| |PRE| |LIST|

If you want to try it manually, use [] around url=xxxyouraddress.com, followed by your text/Prepare Ye, followed by [] around /url. Sorry if that doesn't make sense...I'll see if I can make an example without it posting the link...

{url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1974.htm/ensig n%20january%201974.htm/prepare%20ye%20.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f= templates$3.0}Prepare Ye{/url}

So, replace the {} with [], and it should create a functioning link. At least...until the button thing works for you...

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Weird...I get an error too. Oh...it's cause I put a typo in the link. I'll fix that.

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Well, for rude.  I can chage font and justify on the right side.


Oh, and I still get an error...



-- Edited by Pink Floyd at 17:06, 2006-08-30

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I can change font size and color but no font or justification. That's strange.

I don't know why you're still getting an error. The link works fine for me now... Hmm.

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OOps, I must have clicked the link in my quote of your your link that still has the typo.


Your link is working now. 


I can also draw horizontal lines: 








  • And make
  • Bullet
  • lists.


Can't change color, however.


 


Or quote people.


 



emoticons work. 


darn it


 


 



-- Edited by Pink Floyd at 17:18, 2006-08-30

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Or quote people

I don't have a problem with it.

And when you mentioned earlier today that you were having problems, I looked at it, and it seemed to be working for me.

Also, if you want to quote someone's entire post, you can click on the words "Quote" above their post.

Color for me is available from a drop down menu called "color", which brings up a dialog box where I type the text.

If those aren't working for you, I'm at a loss to explain why. If you want, create a post where you try to do those things, and I'll look through the code and see what's going wrong.

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
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Test font
Testing break
Testing horizontal line...
  • List
  • check
  • here

    Still no effect on the font, but I can tell you how to do color changes manually if you need to spice up your posts.



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    Senior Bucketkeeper

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    Arbi...it sounds like he just has a different option layout. All the stuff we have works fine...he just doesn't have the same stuff. You'd probably need a screen capture to see. Maybe a difference in browser? I'm using Firefox...

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    Pink Floyd wrote:

    Euphrasie wrote:


    Prepare Ye

    It seems to be working for me...




    I get an error message when I click it on your link.  But you got further than I did.  I still don't see the button you are talking about.




    And yet, when I use my quote button, I only get:I get an error message when I click it on your link.


    I want to quote with lines and stuff!

    --bok

    p.s. Oh, and I use firefox too.

    -- Edited by bokbadok at 20:20, 2006-08-30

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    I started a new thread with my posting woes and am reposting my last brilliant post before the derail to try to get the thread back on track...


    arbilad wrote:








    I seem to remember that one of the GAs, when counseling us to have food storage, said that there would come a time when it would be as necessary to us as the ark was to Noah. That would seem to indicate that there was a specific future event that you would need it for.










    Elder Ezra T. Benson said "...MAY be needed," not "WOULD be needed.'



    From the standpoint of food production, storage, handling, and the Lord’s counsel, wheat should have high priority. Water, of course, is essential. Other basics could include honey or sugar, legumes, milk products or substitutes, and salt or its equivalent. The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah.



    http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1974.htm/ensig n%20january%201974.htm/prepare%20ye%20.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f= templates$3.0



    "Prepare Ye"



    October Conference 1974, 30 years ago.



    -- Edited by Pink Floyd at 20:43, 2006-08-30

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    Elder Ezra T. Benson said "...MAY be needed," not "WOULD be needed.'

    Still, a "may" from a prophet is pretty strong. If Pres. Hinckley said that an asteroid "may" hit the earth tomorrow, there would be panic and lots of last minute preparations. But since the thing that he is talking about that "may" happen is in the indeterminate future, people feel, in most cases, that they can ignore the counsel.

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    I was merely "setting the record straight" as to what Elder Benson said.  Not trying to minimize it.


    I have been thinking of your list some, and trying to think historically as well.  Your list:




    • Continued immigration from Mexico and integration of the Mexican culture into the American culture, with an accompanying increase in violent crime, especially if the Atzlan and La Raza movements catch on.         Am I concerned that Mexican gangs will infiltrate every major city and disrupt them so badly that the city ceases to function in the way of supplying grocery stores, places of employment, and so on so that I have to stay in my home for a year?  My answer to that is "No."  I agree that illegal immigration is a problem.  I understand that by something like 2015 Hispanics will be the majority if the trend continues.  I understand that with the illegal immigration problem, crime in border cities in California, and Texas have increased.  I also believe that the American people are recognizing the problem and demanding solutions.  Those solutions haven't been found yet, but I am confident they will be found.



    • Creation of the United States of North America, the political, economic and military merging of Canada, the USA and Mexico into a socialist North American nation encompassing the three currently sovereign nations. The blueprint was laid out in a 2005 report "Building a North American Community", published by the Council on Foreign Relations. The plan is contained in a "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America".                   Well, you certainly made a great leap in what the original report recommends.  Be that as it may, first off, you have to recognize that certain things in the original report make sense.  For example:  Don't you agree it would be a whole lot easier to secure that border between Mexico and Guatemala, and the border between Alaska and Asia, and the border between Canada and Greenland, than it is currently trying to secure the border between Mexico and US, and US and Canada, along with the Alaska and Asia border?  Don't you agree that if we could assist Mexico sort out their oil reserves problems we would be better off?  We import more Mexican oil than any country except one.  Care to guess?  And Canada has in just the last few years made great leaps in oil shale production.  So much, even little companies in Utarh are trying to "borrow' their technology to use our vast oil shale resources.  Did you read about the failures they pointed out in the NAFTA agreement?  I would thing that would have you cheering.  And, one of the biggest parts of the proposed plan is to create a "perpetual education fund" for Mexico!  Well, that sounds familiar.  As to the combining into one large merged political, military and economic socialist country, well, that is just silly.  First off Canada can't agree to be one country, let alone merge with the US.  Quebec and the rest of the country don't speak to each other most of the time.  I don't think they see "merging with us" as the answer to their cultural problems.  And the current government in Mexico is so corrupt, they would never give up the good thing they have got going.  Why would they give up all the graft they take in?  So, no, it is not one of the things I think I will need my years supply for.



    • Continued exporting of American jobs to other countries and Lowering of the standard of living of Americans  (I combined these two)           Yes, I see this as a problem.  But not one that will cause me to live off my food storage for a year. 



    • Increased involvement of American military forces in foreign conflicts, especially on the pretense of combating terrorism, and without constitutionally required declarations of war by Congress               Well, this isn't new, is it?  Can you say "Vietnam?"  We didn't have to dip into our food storage then and I don't think we will have to during the Iraq conflict.  Vietnam was much worse.  More troop commitments, more resources, more casualties.  I'm not saying Iraq doesn't have the potential to become another Vietnam, it just isn't there yet.  So, no, I don't think I will  need my food storage because of this.



    • Further terrorist actions world wide.               Too soon for me to worry about it as far as needing my food storage.  I really think the "sponsoring states" are being identified and will be isolated by the rest of the world.  But I don't know that for sure.  So, it is a bit of a worry for me.  The thing that concerns me that is related tangently to this is our continued reliance on foreign oil.  If the flow was ever cut off, and I mean really cut off, by terrorists or otherwise, the disruptions here would be so great that Yes, I may need my food storage.



    • Continued giving of militarily sensitive technology to China and Russia.  Combined with this one:  Nuke and biochem attack on USA by Russia and China           China worries me.  Russia does not.  But I don't see China wanting to invade or attack the US.  Why would they want to?  They are getting what they want now.  In some ways I admire their Xenophobic tendencies in regards to foreign governments. 



    • Continued devaluation of the US dollar caused by dilution by money created for welfare and foreign aid.            Nah. the government changes too often through the election process for it to continue long enough to completely ruin the economy.


    So, of the ones on your list, the dependency on foreign oil is the one that worries me the most.  It could literally happen tonight while we sleep if just a few leaders in a few foreign governments turned off the spigot.  We would have empty stores within 4 days. 



    -- Edited by Pink Floyd at 22:28, 2006-09-01

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     Seems to me we have been told there will be a use for that food storage that is caused by calamitous events:


     


    Harold B. Lee on President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.


    From "The Improvement Era" Magazine, Article "President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.-An Appreciation on His 90th Birthday" by Harold B. Lee September 1961, pgs. 632-33




    We heard him reply in answer to a question as to why he had put his life savings into his presently owned Grantsville ranch; "This is all I have to leave to my family when I die, and if they are not too lazy to work it, they won't starve. I have told them that when the first atomic bomb is dropped here in America, that they are to go out there on the ranch and stay until it is over." This last seemed not only to be wise council, but also a prophecy. His only son, J. Reuben Clark, III, is the family steward of this practical and foresighted legacy.


     


     



    Victor L. Brown


    April Conference, 1976



    A year ago in the in this Welfare Services meeting, President Marion G. Romney made this comment: "I do not want to be a calamity howler. I don't know in detail what's going to happen in the future. I know what the prophets have predicted. But I tell you that the welfare program, organized to enable us to take care of our own needs, has not yet performed the function that it was set up to perform. We will see the day when we live on what and we produce."


     



    J. Richard Clark


    October Conference, 1980



    One final concern of reserve deficiency is the need to insure against our greatest potential loss. I think we all would agree that our ability to earn is our greatest asset. When the provider insures his life, he is insuring his future income for his family. As husbands, let us not force our wives into the marketplace to be both the provider and homemaker should our lives be cut short by premature death. We can increase their options by proper insurance planning.


    We would also urge each family to carry adequate health insurance. Medical costs are soaring, and trying to self-insure from personal savings is very risky. During inflation, medical costs increase faster than our savings accumulate.


    There are some who feel that they are secure as long as they have funds to purchase food. Money is not food. If there is no food in the stores or in the warehouses, you cannot sustain life with money. Both President Romney and President Clark have warned us that we will yet live on what we produce.

    I would like to make one point very clear. The welfare services program of the Church is essentially you and I being self-sufficient within our own families. The Church storehouse system is a backup system for the small number of members who are poor or physically handicapped, or for emergencies or disasters.


    There is no way the Church, as an institution, intends to assume the responsibility that rightfully belongs to the individual. The welfare program was never designed to do so. Personal and family preparedness is the Lord's way. Then, by uniting together to pay generous fast offerings and by providing commodities from our projects and canneries, we can help our neighbor who cannot help himself.


    Most important of all, brothers and sisters, with all our storing, let us store righteousness that we may stand approved of the Lord.



     



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    Why Food Storage:
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