Dismantling of America

oad · Member

Dismantling of America

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

My best guess is that Orson Card is trying to tell his listeners that America is coming unglued and they ought to speak up about it. I have noticed that more and more Americans are beginning to sense things are seriously wrong, especially in the government of our nation. They seem to be awakening to an "awful situation" that is causing them increasing consternation. Latter-day Saints, because of our great advantage of having certain scriptures and statements of their prophets and apostles that address these issues, are afforded a deeper awareness and understanding of the "awful situation. Specifically, we are warned to be aware of powerful "secret combinations" and to not let them get above us. We are thus under a greater responsibility to, as President Uchtdorf alluded to in the last October General Conference, be aware of history and world events, international concerns, to become aware of things going wring in our nation and in the world, and to oppose those things that are evil.

Perhaps because I am active in the struggle to get people, especially here in Arizona, to honour the US Constitution and to awaken to our "awful situation", I fancy myself in position to opine that pitifully few LDSs are likewise engaged. I believe American Latter-day Saints should be leading the charge to support constitutional principles in our government. Some are, but most by far seem to be either waiting for the Prophet to tell them what to do, which didn't work well in the past, or just oblivious to or ignoring what the scriptures and latter-day prophets have told us about honouring and befriending the US Constitution and opposing evil.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

An outstanding address. And Lundy, thanks for being a Churchill in your community. Perhaps like Abinadi addressing King Noah, only one person will listen to you. But maybe that one person will be like Alma and accomplish some really amazing things.

FWIW, I appreciate your voice of warning. You've prompted me several times to go back to my old Harvard Press volume of American Historical Documents and try to capture at least a part of the vision those inspired men had for this great country. I think that a copy of the Constitution should be posted at every polling place, and citizens should be required to read it before they're ever allowed near a booth to vote.

Fregramis · Senior Member

Assuming all "registered" voters can read!

arbilad · Head Chef

Roper wrote:

An outstanding address. And Lundy, thanks for being a Churchill in your community. Perhaps like Abinadi addressing King Noah, only one person will listen to you. But maybe that one person will be like Alma and accomplish some really amazing things.

FWIW, I appreciate your voice of warning. You've prompted me several times to go back to my old Harvard Press volume of American Historical Documents and try to capture at least a part of the vision those inspired men had for this great country. I think that a copy of the Constitution should be posted at every polling place, and citizens should be required to read it before they're ever allowed near a booth to vote.

Roper, while what you say makes sense, I think that it would be nearly impossible to implement a requirement that all voters read the Constitution before they can vote. The whole civil rights movement has made people gunshy about any sort of polling test. Even though what you're suggesting wouldn't target any specific group, it would immediately get people up in arms thinking that you're trying to deny a specific group the right to vote.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

In my above post on this thread I included the statements: "Latter-day Saints, because of our great advantage of having certain scriptures and statements of their prophets and apostles that address these issues, are afforded a deeper awareness and understanding of the "awful situation. Specifically, we are warned to be aware of powerful "secret combinations" and to not let them get above us. We are thus under a greater responsibility to, as President Uchtdorf alluded to in the last October General Conference, be aware of history and world events, international concerns, to become aware of things going wring in our nation and in the world, and to oppose those things that are evil."

A few weeks ago it was made clear to me by both our bishop and our stake president, seperately, that I should not address this topic, nor that of our responsibilities to support constitutional principles in government, in church. Our bishop, who is well aware of our "awful situation" told me there are bigger problems that need to be addressed. I had asked our stake president if 5 minutes during a stake of ward meetings could be taken to remind members of our responsibility, well documented in scripture and past conference talks, to support constitutional principles in government. His reply was that "there will be a time" for these topics, but for now our stake is focusing on missionary work, re-activation, getting more members temple ready, and home teaching.

I remember years ago these topics were addressed in general conferences and in magazine articles. To me, it seems we are in a sorry state if these commandments (especially Ether 8:24, D&C 98:4-8, D&C 88:79) have to be put on a back burner or off the stove altogether.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Maybe it's because people don't want to hear warnings--they want to hear that all is well in Zion.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

A few years ago a son of the late 70, H. Verlan Andersen, referring to his late father's opinion, said, as best I can recall, that if Presidents David O. McKay, J. Reuben Clark, Marion G. Romney, and Ezra Taft Benson couldn't get the members moving on these things, then the Brethren gave up on it.

Our stake president certainly set me straight on where he stands, as I stated in my previous post. Yet the verses in the D&C 101:77 & 80; 109:54; 98:4-7; and 134:1 set me straight as to what our responsibilities are.

oad · Member

Interesting and telling painting by Jon McNaghton: The Forgotten Man

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=379

-- Edited by oad on Saturday 26th of March 2011 03:16:21 PM

-- Edited by oad on Saturday 26th of March 2011 03:16:54 PM

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

Excellent painting. Thanks for giving us the link to it.

What should Latter-day Saints know that he probably does not know about his "awful situation"

oad · Member

lundbaek wrote:
What should Latter-day Saints know that he probably does not know about his "awful situation"

Well, there are probably many things.

We know that these events were prohesied, particularily in the Book of Mormon, and would be the result of the rise of secret combinations in our day (the last days).

-- Edited by oad on Saturday 9th of April 2011 04:13:59 PM

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

Next question: What should Latter-day Saints be doing about this "awful situation" ? The Lord has commanded us that when we see thiese things come among us we are to "awake" to our "awful situation". But in the previous verse He does not actually command us to oppose the secret combinations, although His advise about "suffer not that these murderous combinations shall ge above us is good enough for me. I occasionally fine another person here or there who is awake, and like many, wondering what to do about it. It seems most are waiting for the Prophet to tell them what to do. I believe that if we are to do anything, it is up to us as individuals, couples, families and/or groups to come up with a cours of action. I would not expect my battle plan to work well for everyone else. And judging by the response of stake leadership here to my efforts to just awake additional members to the "awful situation" and what I see as our duty to oppose it, I'd say the issue is not just on a back burner, but off the stove altogether.