"Black Monday".... 2nd Great Depression has begun.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

RE: "Black Monday".... 2nd Great Depression has begun.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Yep.

DoubleD · Senior Member

Tell you dad... Dad, it is the greatest depression you'll ever see.

There is no other way for this world to get humble so that we can begin the conversion process. Get your missionaries ready. The time is at hand.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

The DI- everyone's new favorite place!

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

These people who most want this bailout are not about to roll over and play dead. They fancy themselves smarter than most, and it is only logical that they will continue to try to impose their intelligent ideas on us dumb sheep for our own good in order to save us from our unenlightened ways and beliefs. And having found us resistant to their more direct control, they will be forced to impose that control by strategy--secrecy and in combination with others of like-mind. On this reasoning alone, I believe secret works will be taken to manipulate the American economy in ways to try to convince us that we were wrong and they are right, and even to punish us for being so stupid.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I COMPLETELY agree with that, lundie. I've been thinking the exact same thing. They are not giving up by a long shot.

Obama and McCain both supporting it?? I mean, HELLO! They don't give a flip what the "dumb sheep" want.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cocobeem wrote:

The DI- everyone's new favorite place!

Even the thieves shop there!!!

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Maybe they're just taking back the stuff they donated by mistake earlier...

arbilad · Head Chef

I personally wouldn't rob a DI. Aside from the moral implications, some glock wielding weirdo could shorten your life for you.

DoubleD · Senior Member

Get ready for another slide in the stock market in the next two weeks. A big one.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Is that regardless of the bailout bill, or because it looks like it will pass this time?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Okay, so it's passed. What on earth could they tell us for why the stock market slide? This was to SAVE US, remember? Now what can they say? They screwed up?

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

Wouldn't you know that those latter-day gadiantons pulling the puppet strings would not take NO for an answer on the proposed $700B bailout. They just sweetened the pie with pork and a lot more money and benefits aimed at suppressing citizen outrage. They needed less than a dozen votes to reverse the House rejection of the measure and they got twenty, including one from my congressional representative. I think it is a safe bet that few of the opposition in the House were fighting this bailout on economic principle, but rather out of fear of public outrage. As soon as the Senate version passed on Wednesday with its increase in apparent freebies for common citizens, some of the opposition felt they could get away with switching their votes and betraying many of their constituents, assuring them as they did so that they were doing this for them, not Wall Street. The public itself has been blasted with fears, threats and lies that failure to "rescue" the banks from toxic debt would mean that "payrolls would not be met" and citizen's "savings would be lost." Savings and salaries are going to be diluted one way or the other through the secret tax of inflation, so this will turn out to be true either way.

DoubleD · Senior Member

I believe that Rush said that before Monday morning, he is pulling everything out of the stock market, even if he looses.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I've felt like doing that... I don't trust "them" when "they" tell me to just leave it be... you're in it for the long haul, etc. etc...

Organist · Senior Member

Question. Since the stock market is collapsing, money is disappearing. It is ceasing to exist. Shouldn't that loss of trillions of dollars counteract inflationary forces from the creation (printing) of money by the federal government?

DoubleD · Senior Member

So far, everything I've predicted on this thread has happened.

Get some cash out of your bank NOW.

Have enough on hand to last you a couple of months.

They might shut down the banks for a while. They may even suspend ATM and credit card use. I pray it doesn't get that bad, but President Hinckley told us more than once to have a short term supply of cash on hand.

We tried to withdraw $10,000 (cash) today, (Saturday). They would only give us 6. The gal said that we are not the only ones getting out $, that the bank would be closed on Monday and that there was talk of having a bank holiday for the entire week next week, she said it wasn't fair to give us more than 6Gs as others would be coming in either Tuesday or after the bank is opened for cash and she had no idea when they would get another shipment.

If we keep the cash on hand (in our safe) for two months, we lose $50 in interest. Big whoop. We can always put some of it back in when this crisis has passed... and soon I hope.

Follow the Prophet!

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

DoubleD wrote:

Follow the Prophet!

I don't think that the one I do follow ever told me in any way to stuff 10 grand in my mattress. A couple hundred or so to sustain for a few days if something were to go awry for a bit is all I know about being counseled to do. Please quote something relevant from someone called of God that tells me otherwise.

Which "predictions" of yours have come true, because I don't see it? The stocks took a tumble this week, but I'm still able to use my dollars, just like last year. Oil is down to around $80 a barrel, so I highly doubt that we'll be to $7 a gallon by Christmas, as you predicted. The world market is already opening higher, which gives a good chance of ours bouncing back a bit this week.

Not saying things are peachy, but I have to say, this bit is getting tired.

What IS going to hurt things is people like you running to the banks taking all the money out. The more you do it and the more people you get to do it, the worse and more long-lasting this crisis is going to be.

-- Edited by arbilad at 12:04, 2008-10-15

DoubleD · Senior Member

Go to the Church Web site. You'll find ample evidence of the Brethren encouraging us to have a 3 month supply of cash.

Some need a couple hundred. Others need more than that.

And with that, I'll say Adeau to this forum, which I am certain will make you Jen extremely happy.

-- Edited by arbilad at 12:05, 2008-10-15

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

DoubleD wrote:
Go to the Church Web site. You'll find ample evidence of the Brethren encouraging us to have a 3 month supply of cash.

I think that I am pretty dialed into this topic and I don't remember any such quote. Got a link or a quote and the reference to back that claim up? This is what I do find on Provident Living:

http://www.providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7419-1-4008-1,00.html

Build a Reserve

Gradually build a financial reserve, and use it for emergencies only. If you save a little money regularly, you will be surprised how much accumulates over time.

President Gordon B. Hinckley

President Gordon B. Hinckley has taught: Set your houses in order. If you have paid your debts, if you have a reserve, even though it be small, then should storms howl about your head, you will have shelter for your wives and children and peace in your hearts ("To the Boys and to the Men," Ensign, Nov. 1998, 54).

-- Edited by mirkwood at 03:02, 2008-10-13

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

No, to the contrary, I did not wish to run you off. I just think when you make such big claims, there should be something to back them up. . . especially when you're admonishing people to follow prophetic advice that no one else seems to remember.

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

I'm probably butting in where I don't belong... this conversation brings to mind some stuff that's been swirling around in my head for some time.

To start off in the specifics of this conversation, we have been told repeatedly to get our finances in order and have some savings. (I think we can all agree on that, yes?) I do not, however, recall a directive to have this money "on hand" vs. in a bank. Of course, having some small bills in your 72-hour kits is a prudent idea. And there is always the possibilty of having personal revelation to take your money out.

Personal revelation is just that, personal. It is specific to that person and perhaps those under their stewardship.

It seems like more and more I'm coming across people online and in person who are taking their particular beliefs (and possibly personal revelation) and preaching them as gospel. When I think about it, though, this isn't a new thing. Saints have been doing this from the very early days of the church. And people in general haven't reached a higher level of perfection since those days.

I've done it. I came from a family where this was how it was done. (Yay for pride, fear, depression, denial, delusion and paranoia. Shoot, yay for false revelation while I'm at it.) Maybe it was growing up in the extreme bubble of a family where there was mental illness that has made me more aware of this happening around me. Because I have to do a reality check for myself everytime someone preaches personal doctrine around me. I have to evaluate the source and seek truth and honesty. That is the only thing that has kept me from being swallowed by the depression and despair that is never far enough away from me for my liking. (It's like once certain doorways in my mind have been opened, it's forever possible to go there again no matter how much better I may have done in between times.)

Seeking truth and honesty is getting back to those Sunday school basics like prayer, repentance, scripture study. It's asking questions, listening to the answers and seeking confirmation. It's remembering that this is not my show. It's not about being right. It's not about what I want to do. It's about letting the Atonement work in my life. It's about being a willing tool in the hands of my Heavenly Father.

It has become very important to me to know what Heavenly Father's will for me is, because that is the only safe place for me.

Wow, I totally went another direction... welcome to my pregnant brain, y'all.

What I wanted to say was that just because something is the right choice for you, doesn't make it so for others. We should respect that. There are some basic things which as LDS we can all agree upon. And for the rest, we can absolutely discuss it and seek further enlightenment. Contention or overstating things as doctrine that aren't revealed as such to the general church aren't going to help us, though. And I think there are too many forces from the outside trying to tear us saints apart without our creating them from the inside.

My experience with this current economic crisis has been somewhat different from Double D's. I was NOT prompted to withdraw any money as of yet. And that is not for lack of asking what I should do. I am at peace with that. And if my bank fails and I lose all the money, the Lord will provide, because his promises are sure.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

All good points. There are things that I teach that are my opinion and I try to make sure on those specific points that I am stating my opinion, as opposed to "doctrine". I hope I am succeeding in that regard.

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

I agree, good post, hic. Mirk I think you do fine.

arbilad · Head Chef

Things got snippy in this thread, and so I've temporarily closed it until I've had time to evaluate it and see if it should be reopened. I've been reading Bountiful on my cell phone (which doesn't allow me to post), so I haven't been keeping up with stuff. I haven't had internet access because I've been changing jobs and moving houses.

arbilad · Head Chef

Thread unfrozen. Really there was probably no reason to close it, but I hadn't been able to keep abreast of developments as well as I would have liked and, well, better safe than sorry.

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

I'll work harder at asserting my opinion without getting snippy. Sorry Arbi.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

I read that Congressman Ron Paul stated, Re. the bailout, that "One of the burning questions regarding the recently passed bailout, and the one that almost no one has bothered to answer, is how the government intends to pay for it? Governments have three main methods by which they can raise funds: taxation, printing new money, and debt. As our $10 trillion national debt shows, the federal government has always enjoyed raising money by issuing new debt. Money is gained up front, while the cost of repaying that debt is pushed onto future generations. This method is especially favored today, since imposing $700 billion worth of taxes would lead to widespread public dissatisfaction []. When the cost of all the recent bailouts plus the cost of all the new lending facilities the Federal Reserve has initiated are added together, we quickly reach a figure in the trillions of dollars. Even with the debt ceiling being raised to $11.3 trillion, the issuance of debt alone cannot begin to cover the cost of all the bailouts in which the government is engaged."