Sarah Palin as Stalking Horse

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

McCain picks Sarah Palin for VP

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

Another article: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/palin.republican.vp.candidate/index.html

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

Huh. Will be interesting to learn more about her.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

"Sarah and Todd Palin have five children: boys Track, 19, and Trig, 4 months, and daughters Bristol, 17, Willow, 13, and Piper, 7. Track Palin joined the Army last September and will deploy to Iraq on Sept. 11. Palin had kept her pregnancy with Trig a secret as she worked in the governors mansion, confirming only weeks before the birth that she was going to have a son who she knew would have Down syndrome. She returned to work in April three days after giving birth."

Huh...

I'd never heard of her. My folks thought he "had" to pick a woman, though.

arbilad · Head Chef

An interesting question for me is, if you were on the fence about voting for McCain, does his choice of VP influence you one way or another?

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

I think it will, for me. I have more to learn about her, but the little I've read this morning already has me more excited about his ticket.

Also, I'm noticing something interesting: On another message board I frequent, the Obama supporters are not happy about this. The reactions are that last night they were flying high, this morning they're feeling punched in the gut. . . one even called this "dirty pool". I find that encouraging.

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

I was just watching her on TV. This might just have been a brilliant choice on McCain's part. She's a good orator from what I'm seeing and at least for now I don't hear blah, blah, blah when she talks. (Maybe once the real flinging gets started I'll feel differently.)

Organist · Senior Member

Her son is deploying to Iraq? That is awesome.

She didn't abort her ther son, even though she knew he would have Down's syndrome? That is awesome and going to drive feminist groups mad.

arbilad · Head Chef

On the surface she seems to have a strong conservative resume. I look forward to digging deeper, because frequently the appearance is contrary to reality.
But, strategically speaking, this seems to be a smart choice for McCain. I still have absolutely no intention of voting for him. But he could have made choices that would have been far, far worse.
And yes, I'm hearing grumbling from my coworkers who support Obama. (I work in Boulder; did you really expect people here to be happy for the Republicans?)

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

Are you going to make an appearance at the convention in Denver, Arbi? ;)

beefche · Profuse Pontificator

What I've read so far makes me like her. But, arbi's right--gotta dig deeper.

Does this make me want to vote for McCain? Nope, again, the VP doesn't DO anything...unless something happens to POTUS. With McCain's age, he is more likely to suffer death or a debilitating disease while in office (compared to Obama), but I would assume he wouldn't run for office if that were the case.

Now if Palin were running for President....hmmm, I'd vote for her based on the little I know at this moment. She actually makes my heart beat a little (again without knowing much about her).

beefche · Profuse Pontificator

Ok, I changed my mind. I'm voting for McCain because of Palin. Have you seen her husband??? He's a hottie and if I get to catch glimpses of him for the next 4 years, I'm taking that chance.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

I wish Mitt Romney had been selected as the VP. Surprised? I'm sure his prior support of homosexual interests, his earlier stance on abortion, his promotion of socialist healthcare, and maybe even his errors about who's responsibility it is to declare war and God speaking to Moses misstatement would be brought up for all, including his LDS cheerleaders, to hear about. Relatively few LDS even know about these errors in his judgement, and others refuse to believe them.

beefche · Profuse Pontificator

lundie, why don't you believe Romney when he says that he changed his mind about abortion and gay marriage?

arbilad · Head Chef

Jen wrote:

Are you going to make an appearance at the convention in Denver, Arbi? ;)

I specifically avoided Denver during the convention. Especially during Obama's speech, because they closed down the major north/south highway in Denver, as well as random closings of surface roads.

arbilad · Head Chef

You know, I've been thinking about it, and you know what bothers me about Gov. Palin? She brags about having gone back to work three days after giving birth. Would it really have harmed the state that much if she had taken her three months maternity leave?
Also, she's one of the "conservatives" who believe in giving free money to people. She pushed through legislation in Alaska to give people money for "energy credits" because oil is so expensive in Alaska.
She says a lot of good stuff, but those two things really bother me.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

My answer to the question "why don't you believe Romney when he says that he changed his mind about abortion and gay marriage?" Is there any reason I should believe that any of his recent as well as past statements and actions which any LDS should consider errors of judgement, as well has position reversals, are other than to gain favour with whatever group of voters he was trying to win over at the time?

Romney has demonstrated to me a lack of any real backbone to do what LDSs should consider right because his intent is to appeal and pander to as many diverse groups of people as he can in order to increase his total number of votes. The fact that he is LDS means nothing when one is compromising LDS beliefs (including the "First Vision" of Joseph Smith and constitutional principles) and LDS standards for political support.

I consider egregious the support of any LDS for Senator McCain, who's commitment to life is about as deep as a mud puddle, who is still pro amnesty and pro illegal immigration (John McCain even voted to grant Social Security benefits to illegal aliens, and joined with Senator Ted Kennedy to provide amnesty to illegal aliens.), who's rhetoric rings of sacrificing national sovereignty in favour of regional alliances and institutions as well as to the U.N.; need I go on? He is a globalist thru and thru.

I have twice written letters to Mitt Romney. These excerpts might provide insight into my opinions of the man.

"As a politician, you have a documented history of disdain for certain moral and constitutional principles. You demonstrated opposition to the Boy Scouts policy prohibiting homosexuals from serving as scoutmasters. You promoted homosexual propaganda in Massachusetts schools through the "Governor's Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth," funding this bureaucracy of social engineering instead of eliminating it. You advocated governmental recognition of homosexual adoption rights, domestic partnerships and homosexual civil unions. In your 1994 Senate race against Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-MA, you promised a gay GOP group that you would be a stronger advocate for them than Kennedy was. And you promoted and initiated compulsory health insurance for all Massachusetts citizens which forces all MA citizens to purchase health insurance, and contribute via taxes to the cost of health insurance for MA citizens who somebody will consider unable to afford it. This is socialism and deprivation of free agency."

(1) Stay true to your LDS faith and truly 'befriend' the US
Constitution. Instituting mandatory socialist health care in MA and
publicly ignoring the responsibility of Congress to declare war have
demonstrated disdain for the Constitution.

(2) Retract your endorsement of Senator McCain. He is a liberal and
supports the program to create a world socialist dictatorship. You
will regret your current support of John McCain. I suggest you now
lend your support to one or both of the candidates who one might
think actually have read D&C 98:6, Chuck Baldwin and Ron Paul.

(3) Help rally the Elders of Israel in the defense of the
Constitution and basic Gospel principles. The Latter-day Saints are
to in future be the solution to the problem, not part of it.

(4) Study what the Lord, and Latter-day Prophets and Apostles said
and wrote about the US Constitution. I suggest reading the book 'A
Glorious Standard' by LDS author Christopher S. Bentley. If given a
mailing address, I will send you a copy. I had the privilege of
editing and endorsing the book.

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

arbilad wrote:

You know, I've been thinking about it, and you know what bothers me about Gov. Palin? She brags about having gone back to work three days after giving birth. Would it really have harmed the state that much if she had taken her three months maternity leave?

You know, Arbi, that one bugged me a bit too. Because it's not a choice I would have made. I've since had a couple of thoughts about this. First, we don't know how exactly going back to work looked. Were they short days? Did she simply take her baby with her? I'd imagine that being governor and all she could set things up to meet her needs and the baby's. She may not have really left him much at all. Also, there might have been something pressing at work that did need her attention. Oh, and this is her fifth child. I'm giving her some credit for knowing what she can handle and still care for the baby properly.

I was also impressed by her principles to have this baby knowing he had Down Syndrome. Many people choose differently. I have a Downs brother, so this hits really close to home for me. A few different places I came across things Palin had written or said about her baby and I was very, very impressed. She truly seems to love him and be aware of the special blessing that he is.

That's enough for me to quit judging how she balances her home and work lives when I simply am not privy to the actual details.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I'm intrigued with Palin... it's still weird for me to hear stuff like this, though...

"This was not a mother's typical visit to the office to show off the new baby; instead, she was serving notice that a child of special needs will not hinder her professional commitments."

They just look like your basic family next door. Todd might want to lose the goatee... then again, he's from Alaska.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

Sarah Palin as Stalking Horse

by Stephen W. Carson

"Stalking horse" comes from hunting. To avoid scaring the prey, say a group of wild ducks, the hunter lets his horse wander towards the ducks since the ducks are not startled by seeing a horse. The hunter stays carefully behind the horse until he is close enough to shoot the ducks.

McCain and his coterie of neocon, war-mongering imperialists are the hunters. Sarah Palin is the stalking horse. And you and me, we're the ducks.

There is nothing new here. In 1969, Murray Rothbard pleaded with libertarians to stop being stalking horses for the Right wing:

"I got out of the Right-wing not because I ceased believing in liberty, but because being a libertarian above all, I came to see that the Right-wing specialized in cloaking its authoritarian and neo-fascist policies in the honeyed words of libertarian rhetoric. They need you for their libertarian cover; stop providing it for them!"
As someone who is squarely in the demographic that they are trying to target with Sarah Palin, I can feel what they are trying to do. A friend of mine who is also a Christian and a libertarian hilariously wrote that he "is disappointed in himself because the Palin pick has softened his dislike for McCain."
Many people who were not finding much to like in John McCain will be won over simply because they find what Sarah Palin stands for much more compelling. But I'm not buying, and you shouldn't either.
Sarah Palin may be as sincere as can be, but if after a combined Reagan/Bush I/Bush II run of 20 years you still think the Republicans are going to shrink government, stop babies from being killed or reverse the slow erosion of 2^nd amendment rights then you haven't been paying attention.
It's a trick! Don't be fooled. Once again, those devilishly clever statists are figuring out how to quiet unrest among the natives and co-opt the growing opposition movements (as seen, for example, in the Ron Paul Revolution).

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

I liked how this move stole Obama's acceptance speech thunder...ha ha... but I'm still voting third party.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

The Palin pick has definitely softened his dislike for McCain around these parts.

-- Edited by lundbaek at 15:55, 2008-09-01

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

As I think about it, I cannot imagine McCain making the decision himself to have Sarah Palin as his VP. I never believed Ronald Reagan chose George Bush as his VP. I believe Bush was chosen for him as VP by persons more powerful that Reagan. I imagine that Cheney was picked as VP for Bush 43 for the specific role that he played in the current administration. Likewise, I strongly suspect, even believe, that Palin was chosen for McCain by the same puppet masters that picked the candidates for both major parties. She was given to McCain to be the "stalking horse" that Stephen Carson describes.

beefche · Profuse Pontificator

mirkwood wrote:

I liked how this move stole Obama's acceptance speech thunder...ha ha... but I'm still voting third party.

I think it was great strategy. First, it did take the wind out of Obama's sails. All the headlines talked about was Obama's great speech. Then, BOOM! You saw nothing else of Obama...it was all about McCain.

Also, she seems to be more of a conservative than McCain--so she may appeal to the conservative base and might pull some of the women voters.

No matter who chose her, I think it was good strategy.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

So does Palin know she's the stalking horse? Or is she just thinking people picked her cuz she's so qualified and wonderful?

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Palin likes BBQ.

LoudmouthMormon · Profuse Pontificator

The latest dirt on Palin is her 17 yr old unmarried daughter's pregnancy. Every pro-family statement Palin has ever uttered on record, is about to be dug up and thrown out our TV's at us. And if we don't find any, you can bet that any conservative who hates Dr. Laura, is about to be presented with a flood of media asking him to put Palin in the same light.

Here are some talking points I heard on the way to work today:
"Isn't it a double standard to say marital infidelity is an impeachable offence, while a pregnant teen daughter is 'a private family matter'"?

"So, cigars, ties, and stained dresses are still out, but the back seat of mom's Ford 1/2 ton quadcab is in?"

"Why would anyone vote for a woman who decided to run, knowing full well the media would rake her daughter over the coals and destroy her life?"

LM

arbilad · Head Chef

Surprisingly enough, I don't think that Palin's daughter is a good measure to judge her by. Even the best parents can have wayward children. What was Palin supposed to do, put a chastity belt on her daughter? The behavior of a president (or vice president) is an entirely different matter than the behavior of their kid. Out of wedlock sex on the part of a public official reflects on their character. The behavior of their kid doesn't necessarily.
Now if we hear things like Palin encouraging her daughter to have an abortion, then that reflects on Palin. But I'm not inclined to judge her for the behavior of her daughter.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

CAN TWO WALK TOGETHER WITHOUT AGREEMENT?

By Chuck Baldwin
September 3, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

John McCain's selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate was exactly what he needed to do to make himself competitive against Barack Obama in the November elections. (For the record, I predicted three weeks ago that Palin would be his choice.) As a result (and right on cue), conservatives throughout the country--especially Christian conservatives--are now fully supporting McCain's candidacy for President. Even James "I-will-never-vote-for-John-McCain" Dobson has endorsed McCain.

By all appearances, Governor Palin is a true conservative. She is pro-life. She is pro-Second Amendment. Alaska is one of only two states (Vermont is the other) that recognize the right of their citizens to carry handguns without a Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) permit. She was rightly critical of the invasion of Iraq, once calling it a "war for oil." Speaking of oil, she believes we should drill for oil in Alaska and throughout the U.S., and is critical of the federal government for allowing America to become dependent upon foreign oil for our energy needs. She even heaped praises upon the Republican that Republicans love to hate: Ron Paul. Beyond that, Lynette Clark, the chairman of the Alaskan Independence Party (the party under which yours truly is on the Presidential ballot this year) reports that Sarah Palin was a member of the party back in the early 90s. This is very encouraging in that the AIP is a patriotic, states' rights party that holds strong sentiments opposing the New World Order propensities of the two major parties. In essence, Sarah Palin is everything that John McCain isn't. Which leads to the question that was asked long ago by the Hebrew prophet: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

When the no-compromise constitutionalist, Ron Paul, was asked by CNN's Wolf Blitzer if he would consider being John McCain's running mate, he said no. His reason for that was that should McCain do something fundamentally counter to his constitutional convictions--such as bombing Iran without a Declaration of War (or other possible unconstitutional actions that Paul knows McCain is predisposed to)--he would have to resign. Knowing this, he (Paul) could not in good conscience accept a McCain invitation to join his ticket (not that McCain would ever ask him to be his running mate; Ron was not even invited to participate in the Republican convention, for Pete's sake).

Herein lies the problem for Sarah Palin. How can a principled conservative support the policies and actions of an unprincipled globalist such as John McCain? As Vice President, Palin will be required to promote and defend McCain's big-government, liberal, and globalist plans. For example, what will she do when John McCain proposes amnesty for millions of illegal aliens, which he is certain to do? What will she do when McCain proposes to close gun shows, or at least the private sale of firearms at gun shows? What will she do when he proposes to increase federal spending for abortion providers (which he has done numerous times as senator)? What will she do when he promotes federal spending for embryonic stem cell research? What will she do when John McCain proliferates Bush's police state machinations by expanding the Patriot Act and similar legislation? What will Palin do when McCain decides to nuke Iran (and who knows what else), not only without a Declaration of War by Congress, but also without provocation or justification? What will she do as John McCain expands the Security and Prosperity Partnership with Canada and Mexico? What will she do as McCain opens the door of the NAFTA superhighway and the North American Union? What will she do as John McCain allows the United Nations to dictate and manipulate America's foreign policy? Again, can two walk together except they be agreed?

Let's face it: John McCain is using Sarah Palin as inducement to trick conservatives into accepting his liberal, big-government, globalist candidacy. And, sadly, it is working.

As I have said before, today's national Christian leaders are among the most gullible people on the planet. They are so desperate to be invited to sit at the king's table that they will compromise practically any principle. But accepting John McCain was a not only a bitter pill, it was a BIG pill, one they could not get down without a major dose of syrup. And that is exactly what Governor Palin brings to the table: sweet syrup to help conservatives swallow John McCain.

Unfortunately, the things that make Palin so attractive (her conservative principles) are the things that she will be forced to surrender in order to be John McCain's running mate. The best thing that can happen to Sarah Palin is for John McCain to lose the November election. This would allow her to go into the 2012 elections as perhaps the Republican Presidential frontrunner. If McCain wins in November, and Palin is forced to serve at the pleasure of this globalist insider for four years, she will be forever ruined as a genuine constitutional conservative. Remember, "No man can serve two masters." One cannot be faithful to the Constitution and a constitutional apostate such as John McCain at the same time. That is an absolute impossibility.

What our conservative friends need to wake up to is the depth of duplicity and wickedness that permeates Washington politics (in both major parties) today. There is nothing that these globalist insiders at the Council on Foreign Relations (of which John McCain is a longtime member) will not do to fulfill their power-mad plans. There is nothing too evil, too sinister, or too iniquitous, including using, abusing, chewing up and then spitting out good people such as Sarah Palin. Even more unfortunate and sad is the fact that the James Dobsons of this world are too blind to see it.