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arbilad


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Congress votes to limit your constitutional rights
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The President signed a bill that Congress passed to give the government more powers of surveillance and to give telecoms immunity from lawsuits for going along with their unconstitutional (and therefore illegal) power grab.
Basically, Congress and the President say that they have the right to listen to any phone conversation anytime as long as they say they suspect you of being a terrorist.
What the Constitution says, however, is that the government needs a warrant no matter what they suspect.
BTW, it isn't hard for the government to obtain wiretap warrants. It's incredibly easy. There was even a special court set up to streamline the process for them.

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lundbaek


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The American Civil Liberties Union filed suit Thursday over that controversial wiretapping law, challenging the constitutionality of the expanded spy powers Congress granted to the president on Wednesday.

The federal lawsuit was filed with the court just hours after Bush signed the bill into law.

The ACLU is suing on behalf of journalist and human rights groups, asking the court put a halt to Congress's legalization of Bush's formerly secret warrantless wiretapping program. The ACLU contends the expanded spying power violates the Constitution's prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/07/aclu-challenges.html



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lundbaek


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Arbi, I think we got it all wrong.  This must be a good thing.  According to the Salt Lake Trib., http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9829067   LDS Utah Senator Orrin Hatch supported it.  
Once again Orrin Hatch and other members of the US Senate, in a brazen
evisceration of the 4th Amendment, demonstrated their blatant disregard for the US Constitution which they are sworn to uphold. This is not a first for Hatch. I sometimes wonder how all the LDS legislators in Congress are going to answer for the violations of the US Constitution that they have proposed and supported while in Congress. 

-- Edited by lundbaek at 15:54, 2008-07-11

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Much of the Bill of Rights has been curtailed recently as has the proper role of government layed out in the constitution.

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NRA


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lundbaek wrote:
Once again Orrin Hatch and other members of the US Senate, in a brazen evisceration of the 4th Amendment, demonstrated their blatant disregard for the US Constitution which they are sworn to uphold. This is not a first for Hatch. I sometimes wonder how all the LDS legislators in Congress are going to answer for the violations of the US Constitution that they have proposed and supported while in Congress.
That's a good question.  But I think it applies to more than just the LDS legislators.

 



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lundbaek


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Granted, all members of Congress are sworn to uphold the US Constitution.  But LDS congressman have an additional and at least equally important reason to uphold the Constitution.  It's found in commandments in D&C 98:6 and 101:77, and in the words of latter-day Prophets and Apostles. 

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arbilad


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Those with greater light and knowledge are held to a greater standard.

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
- Samuel Adams
hiccups


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arbilad wrote:

Those with greater light and knowledge are held to a greater standard.



By whom, though?

I'm pretty okay with holding all politicians to the same standard, LDS or not, based on the job the are doing. I'm not okay with judging relative righteousness of LDS politicians by their political beliefs and actions, though. I figure I'll leave that to God. I'm way too busy working on keeping up with my own greater standard, anyway.



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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
arbilad


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Hick, do you feel that way even when an LDS politician advocates abortion, which is clearly against our religion?

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
- Samuel Adams
hiccups


Future Queen in Zion

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Yes. I'm not going to like it from any politician, LDS or not, because it doesn't reflect my views. But I'm not going to judge their righteousness. I am free to write letters and use my vote to try to change things and that's enough for me.



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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
lundbaek


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In view of what the Lord, Prophets and Apostles have told us, I think it not right for any American Latter-day Saint to support any program or legislation that violates any principle of the US Constitution. 

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arbilad


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"By their fruits shall ye know them". If an LDS politician supports something that is contrary to LDS doctrine, could you not call that an evil fruit?

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
- Samuel Adams
hiccups


Future Queen in Zion

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You can. I'll be abstaining from such. Calling a person evil implies a rather permanent judgement and I'm not willing to commit to such a pronouncement in most cases. You guys could have called me evil for ideas I supported along the way in my struggles and yet here I am a changed person. I was never actually evil. I made some wrong choices. I repented and really now the rest of it isn't anyone's concern. I know my heart, but to know another person's heart is a tricky, tricky area. I will judge the candidates by who is most likely to support my views based on past performance and how sincere they may seem about what they are currently saying, but I don't have to sort them into good and evil fruit based on their political views.

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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
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Like many of our wars?

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Cocobeem


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Time to get them secret words and phrases going again...

"How's Zeus?"
"Great, I'll be there in five minutes."
"Don't forget the coats."
"Gotcha. I'll bring the toast."

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