Not a good idea, in my opinion. I'm sure that in 99% of the cases nothing untoward will happen. But the possibility is significantly higher. I don't make friends with the opposite sex without my wife also befriending them. That is, they're not "my friend", they're "our friend".
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
I agree it's not a good idea. Couples should make friends with couples... if there's some "void" in the marriage being filled some this outside "friend" ... it's just not a good thing. Single people really don't see it as a big deal. Been there. But when the married person is acting like it's no big deal (and yes, it's acting) you get into problems.
I was just thinking about this the other day, as a matter of fact. Do you guys pretty much follow the "missionary" rules when it comes to the opposite sex? I mean, like riding in cars, going to the store together or stuff like that... with someone you aren't married to...
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
If you can't be friends with your spouse sitting right there next to you, then don't be freinds.
As a general rule I'm never even alone in a room or car with someone else of the opposite sex. Lots of reasons for that rule. . . also, I don't like to have phone conversations that are too long or friendly with men. I get uncomfortable if DH's friends are too chatty with me on the phone.
Maybe I'm hypervigilant. DH is, too. Better than the other way, I think.
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
I've never had opportunity to get uncomfortable talking to men, either on the phone or in person. It's just never been a problem. Gee Jen, what kinda siren are you?!
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
I'm not talking about personal experience. I have very strict standards for any relationship I have with married men (relationships such as friends, working, callings, etc.).
I am just curious on how others view friendship and what standards they use.
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It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
yeah, what Jen said. I had a friend (female) who made an emotional connection with a man online. She was married. Ended up leaving her husband to go be with this man. Turns out she didn't like the man in real life. Came back to her husband and wanted to work things out. Eventually they got back together, only to get divorced for good a couple of years later. It was a very very sad thing for their family.
Emails- generally will include to wife as well even though the wife isn't the person in the mail, either I send to both email accounts if separate or I write hi to "so and so and so and so" if they share email.
Like you, I have high standards for how I interact w/married members of the opposite sex. I will say how are you, etc so it doesn't seem like I am ignoring the man as a person.
I agree w/all that was said about needing to befriend both members of the couple or not have the friendship.
I follow the rule w/avoiding being in the same room, etc. I am all for respecting this within reason.
As I've said before on the other forum, this area of friendship is an issue for me. I do feel hurt in this area, I feel like men could be a little kinder/friendlier. I feel sometimes they think I must be a horrible person because of the lack of friendship in some cases.
It hurts deeply to not get more than a hi, a thank you or how are you Sis Nitasmile. One of the divorced men I know said it is because people have a hard time interacting w/you unless you also have a spouse, he said after his divorce, he was treated differently. I agee though I've never been married. I think those w/kids, spouses,etc have life situations that enable friendship to grow, ie in opportunities to serve and inquire about a person. But it is different for some of us who are single
My rules of engagement with married men wouldn't change if I were to become married. Although I understand what you mean, Nita, I think that a friendship between a single person and a married person MUST have limitations which may prevent one or the other from having a "sense of fulfillment."
As a single woman I understand that I do not and will not have a true friendship with a man. I miss that...when I was in the single's ward, I had many friendships with guys. But that changed once they were engaged and married. As with any decline in friendship, I was sad, but I completely understood and supported the result.
Because of some past experiences, I am extremely cautious regarding any interaction with married men. I wondered what others were doing regarding this issue to see if I needed to tweek what I'm doing.
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It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
I think just trying to be aware in situations might take care of any tweaking needed in any specific circumstances. In general, it sounds like you're already taking things cautiously enough, Beefche. (The fact that you're double checking with others leads me to this assumption.)
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
Well, those who have known me since the deseretbook forum ended know that I have had a problem in this area. I have to be careful not to do ongoing emails with men of the opposite sex who are married. I do not think I am as vulnerable or as susceptible as I was at the time. However, I thought that everthing was pretty careful at the time and boy did I go through the most intense emotions. Of course, it may be due to being rather manic at the time. Also, being single can make one rather lonely and then there are the longings one can have.
I do wish that I could be friends on a better level with some married men. I would even be worried if I were married as far as being friends with couples as I have heard of bad things in that regards. I feel that you really don't need anybody to be more intimate with than your spouse(if you have one). The should be your greatest confident. If you are having a problem and a friend of the same sex can help that is fine or if a professional of either gender can help, that is fine. But you should never confide very personal things with a married person of the opposite sex, in my opinion. Oh, I guess I may have broken that rule recently. But I was just venting and not wanting it to lead anywhere as in an ongoing correspondence.
Now I realize that not everyone has to be as strict as me. But then, I always felt that I had such high standards that I would not be at risk like I was. I feel caution is the best policy even if someone is distanced by it.
I do relate to what Nita says. I do consider some married me on forums to be friends. However, I very rarely email or pm them. We just support each other in the context of the forum and such. A little joking around helps a lot.
I do wonder if something goes into over drive with a woman over thrity if she is single. I was so repressed when I was young and not really into relationships with anybody. ...a loner...a disconnected person. But I was so sweet in so many ways and did not know I was disconnected. Or maybe I am judging my former self too much.
Well, enough introspection... I think I am too introspective. In a way, it is a good thing because I can analyze myself.
But you should never confide very personal things with a married person of the opposite sex, in my opinion. I'd expand on that. It's my opinion that it's even more important for a married person not to confide in someone of the opposite sex (except their spouse, of course), whether or not the confid-ee is married or single.
That way lies trouble.
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They might not look it, but bunnies can really take care of themselves.
I think married folks should be careful of who they confide in regardless of gender or married status. Women tend to confide more info than men. It can be dangerous for a woman to talk to her best friend or mother about private matters between spouses.
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It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
I'm an outspoken advocate for loyalty to your spouse. One phenomenon I've seen that women do - you've probably all encountered it as well - is when a group gets together and starts "husband-bashing."
I can't stand that. One of the criteria for me in a close friend is that she spends more time talking about how the good things about her husband than the things he does that annoy her.
I suppose this harks back to when DH and I were getting married - my parents were less-than-thrilled about my choice of a spouse (however, they've come around). It was a painful time.
But looking back, there are blessings to be found. My apron strings were most definitely cut when for the first time in my life I stood up to my parents and said, "I love you, but I'm not going to change my mind."
Add to that the fact that my hubby was a "diamond in the rough" in the singles ward and some people were unkind, and you've got a recipe for a wife who's fiercely protective of her husband.
Even now, the number one way to earn some long-term emnity from me is to treat my husband badly. If someone can't be bothered to make the effort and discover what a great guy he is, I have no time for them.
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They might not look it, but bunnies can really take care of themselves.
Dianoia--the mama bear when it comes to hubby and family! Grrrr! I've never had the courage to say this, but I'd love to tell women who bash their husbands or children that I would gladly take their husband and children (I say that with the caveat that I know the husband and already approve of him ) with all the "problems." It's all about perspective.
It's tough I think for women NOT to share things about their husbands. I had an experience with a good friend. She and her husband were going through some really tough times. She was confused, hurt, angry, sad, etc. When she was with her closest girlfriends, she shared waaayyy too much info. She shared even more with me. As I tried to advise her, I was conflicted. On the one hand I felt it was more info that she should share with someone who is not a professional. But, I also could see her view as she sought advice and comfort from a Christian with strong morals.
Once she and her husband worked through the problems, I had difficulty with him. Although the things he did had no bearing on me, I was hurt and angry on behalf of my friend. However, I recognized that it wasn't my place to say/do anything. It was her decision and I would support her in whatever that decision was. Later, this friend told me that she realized that she never should have shared so much with others. One of the other girlfriends told her that she could not look or talk to the husband.
That taught me a lesson that I already knew...now I saw the practicality of it.
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It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Dianoia--the mama bear when it comes to hubby and family! Grrrr!
You know, it's true. After I posted I was contemplating the fact that I am a peacemaker - with some people-pleaser thrown into the mix - in every other part of my life except when it comes to my husband. It's almost like a switch is thrown inside.
Normally conflict makes my stomach hurt, even conflict when I'm not part of it. But I could give a flying lizard's behind whether or not someone likes me if they don't treat my husband right, because I don't like them. (I suppose I better hope he's never called as Bishop, eh?)
And in terms of the practical experience with someone complaining, I've got some too. I had a relative who was in a rather long and tumultuous courtship. She'd complain to me about something he'd done, I'd bristle and get indignant for her sake, and then later when I was still feeling annoyed at him she'd bite my head off because they'd made up and he was wonderful again.
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They might not look it, but bunnies can really take care of themselves.
This might ruffle a few feathers, but beef, I will tell you a truth (98.7% true anyway).
When guys are buds/friends with a woman, it generally means they are interested in them in a variety of ways, none that are proper when a man is married. The exception is if they are gay or something is a bit off.
When a guys is single and buds/friends with a woman, it is 99.899999% true.
I would not recommend it.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
Valhalla wrote: "When guys are buds/friends with a woman, it generally means they are interested in them in a variety of ways, none that are proper when a man is married. The exception is if they are gay or something is a bit off. "
I disagree. I think there is a way for people to be a genuine Christlike friend and support without demonstrating the evils to which you allude.
I did leave a margin of error on that above. But this is the way most guys view it, not women.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
And I think you're right to an extent, Val. I think the key word is "buds." If a man is close to a woman, then I think there is some attraction going on. A simple friendship may not have that level of attraction.
Women, otoh, can be buds with a man and not have that level of attraction. And that may be difficult for women to remember/understand. If we can separate those feelings, why can't men? I think it's just something we have to accept and work with.
Nita, I think men and women can have genuine feelings of friendship and still feel an attraction. And I don't think that in and of itself is evil. What you do with those feelings can turn into something evil. That's why I think it's important to put barriers and limits on friendships with people of the opposite sex who are married.
Unfortunately, I was in a situation in which I was very naive and felt friendship for a married man. In no way did I ever do/say anything to encourage anything beyond friendship. But, this person let me know that he felt something more than friendship and wanted more from me. After a lot of agonizing, discussing with my Bishop, and repenting, I realized that although I didn't do anything "wrong" what I did do was not put up enough limitations/safeguards and that I needed to repent of being naive. I had to be more aware of my actions (especially since I am a member and this person wasn't and didn't have the level of knowledge/understanding that I do). Now I have friendships with married men, but it is in conjunction with their wives. At no point do I allow my friendship with the husband become closer or more than what I have with the wife.
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It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Mirk just likes to break news and we are a convenient outlet. I'm guessing it doesn't go over as well when he does it with Mrs. Mirk. I'd imagine one time of getting popped up the backside of the head for saying , "BREAKING NEWS, MRS MIRK IN PLOT WITH DRYER TO FOREVER UNMATE THE SOCKS!!!" was enough to keep him just doing it here.
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
NRA, it didn't get as much play on this forum as on another that you probably don't frequent, but Bok's husband just became Bishop recently. He actually posts on this forum as well under the name "Dilbert". He's a real geek, which is why I like him.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
My DH has been friends with a certain couple for a really long time, so they were kind of adopted friends to me. I didn't have a lot in common with her, but we got along okay. He totally creeped me out though. I got all kinds of weird signals from him that DH and I just blew off as misunderstandings. I recently learned that those signals were telling me something, and I was smart to keep my distance with him.
Not sure why I felt compelled to share that.
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
) with all the "problems." It's all about perspective. 
