I don't feel I use others OR am overly used. I think in some circumstances people who see what I do might feel I am being used, but I generally know what's going on and choose to do what I'm doing in those situations no matter what it looks like.
Sometimes I take more than I give. Sometimes I give more than I take. But I don't think the former is using or the latter is being used. So, I'm with Dyany. None of the above.
-- Edited by hiccups at 21:05, 2008-05-23
__________________
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
And as Christians trying to do the right thing, are we more susceptible to being used and taken advantage of?
Nope. To me, being used implies one of two things. 1) Not being aware that it's happening. 2) Giving grudgingly. Doing it because it seems like the right thing, but being resentful. However, if I go in with my eyes open and give generously and wisely I simply cannot be used. No matter what the other person does with whatever I give. So, I suppose what I'm saying is that feeling "used" is a choice.
__________________
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
Well I'm not talking about doing service. In that case you definitely go in with no expectations (ideally). I'm talking more about ongoing relationships with people. In that case, I'd say that feeling used is a symptom, and choosing to be used is a choice. It's not healthy for either person to allow someone to repeatedly take advantage or deplete your resources.
__________________
"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
Well I'm not talking about doing service. In that case you definitely go in with no expectations (ideally). I'm talking more about ongoing relationships with people. In that case, I'd say that feeling used is a symptom, and choosing to be used is a choice. It's not healthy for either person to allow someone to repeatedly take advantage or deplete your resources.
Actually, I wasn't talking about doing service either. (Though I could probably argue that giving of ourselves in ongoing relationships is where most people will give the most of their service. But that's a completely different topic.) When I said giving I was simply highlighting the point that to be used you have to make a choice to give (of yourself, time, whatever.)
So, a person is responsible for not giving more than they can. Making it a choice is empowering and freeing. Having boundaries is a really good thing. If giving to those around me is draining me more than uplifting me then the quality of giving will likely be less and especially if I'm resentful of feeling like I have to give. (So, it's my responsibility to be sure I'm not being used.)
I've found that the better my boundaries are, the better the quality my day to day giving to those around me is. Paradoxically, those boundaries help me to love others more which can bring us closer.
__________________
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
Aw sweetie, I really hurt your feelings with my acidic comment, didn't I? I'm sorry about that. Please consider that acid does not necessarily equal bad. Some of my favorite foods are acidic.
I hope you can forgive me for hurting your feelings with my overly frank assessment. I also feel I should apologize for talking about you instead of addressing you directly, in that case.
I really would like to know more about what you're thinking on the topic of this thread, because I think you've asked some important questions. If my participation ruins the discussion for you, I'll gladly withdraw from this thread so as to avoid causing consternation with my excessive (and acidic) honesty.
Do you mean used like =enabler? Because I can see how someone could be considered used even if they don't, simply when they are giving more than they SHOULD give even if they don't mind the giving....
Yeah Dyany, enabling definitely fits in there. But that's not all of it.
I posted this with a totally empty bucket. Just drained, and more than a little cynical with a side of misogyny. Today was a great day at church and I'm feeling better and can probably formulate the real question better. Well, maybe. I'll give it a shot:
In Mosiah we read about baptism, and being members of His church. There are the passages about mourning with those that mourn, comforting those that stand in need of comfort, and being a big happy church family. However, King Benjamin also counseled us not to run faster than we have strength.
The truth is, there are people that will suck everything they can from us. From where I sit, those people either don't realize they're doing it, or they do to some extent but don't really care what they're costing us because they're so focused on getting what they want/need.
Also, mourning WITH someone implies that there are at least two people carrying the load. I don't think that necessarily applies to specific mourning, but just helping people through stuff. Pouring water into a bucket full of holes isn't useful. If the person doesn't really WANT to be helped, or isn't willing to be, or can't see or accept what they need to do to improve their situation, to what extent should we expend energy trying to improve their situation?
In my life experience, I'm seeing a pattern that has weighed on me. I tend to attract people that take take take. . . whether it's my time, my effort, my emotional energy. . . and never seem satisfied. I WANT to keep my baptismal covenants. I WANT to be a disciple of Christ. But when it gets to the point that my own well-being is suffering, and the needs of myself and my family are being neglected, AND it doesn't seem to be doing the person any good anyway, I think that falls under running faster than I have strength for. Does He want that for me? In the name of being charitable? And if I feel worn down, is it because I have the wrong attitude, or I'm giving with the wrong spirit? I'm sure that's true some of the time, but I don't think it's as simple as all of that.
What stuck out to me today in gospel doctrine today is that in those scriptures in Mosiah, it talks about the DESIRE and WILLINGNESS to mourn and comfort. As with all things in the Gospel, we're not asked for perfection now. Just effort. Desire. Willingness.
But I still struggle with this. I'm prayerful about it and I'm not really speaking from a place of regret, but really just logically trying to reconcile things that sometimes seem conflicting: being there for people, as we have covenanted to do, and taking care of ourselves. What do we do when we feel like we're just being used, or taken advantage of, or that the a person only calls you when they want something from you?
I hope that wasn't too fragmented. I'm not succinct or eloquent. I'd love your thoughts.
__________________
"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
I know where you're coming from Jen, because I've struggled to find the right balance in the past, with a specific family member and with the occasional v.t'ee.
Okay, I know this is a cliche, but I finally got to the point where I now think of the phrase "What is the Christlike thing to do here?" If the Savior wants us all to grow and become more like Him, then that should be my motivation to help others as well. And when someone needs to learn to be more self-reliant, or develop appropriate social skills and boundaries, if I'm bailing them out, I'm stalling their growth.
Two things that help me know if I'm giving needed service, or if I'm doing too much: 1) If I feel the Spirit, I know I'm on the right path. And the Spirit usually manifests itself to me in these kinds of situations by feelings of energy, love for the person I'm serving, peace... you get the idea. It finally dawned on me that those times I felt resentful was because I was doing too much.
2) The attitude of the person being served: if they show gratitude, that's my number-one indicator that my actions are right. But I bet we've all met those who aren't grateful, but just demand more. It's almost like the more you do, the more they ask for. Once someone starts doing that, I'm not helping them grow by offering extravagant acts of service.
My rule of thumb is that the person who is being served should try to be flexible with their requests (I learned this the hard way with a family member - she'd ask for an OTT favor, and then get mad because we couldn't do it EXACTLY the way she wanted it.)
Now I recognize that we shouldn't give service just because it's convenient, that serving others should stretch us, that we should go the second mile. But like Hiccups said, it's about appropriate boundaries.
__________________
They might not look it, but bunnies can really take care of themselves.
The truth is, there are people that will suck everything they can from us.
That's why it's okay to say no. It's also okay to not let others dictate how you help them. I am the keeper of the knowledge of how much I can handle. (Ok, Heavenly Father helps me figure it out, but I cannot expect others to know unless I tell them.)
Also, if I give others what they ask for, that might not be what they need. There is a family member in my life who used to call me to complain about another family member quite frequently. The conversations were draining and made me feel awful. I was trying to talk this person into feeling differently or calm them down, but I eventually realized that by allowing the conversations to happen, I was helping this family member to be more angry rather than less. So, I started changing the topic or refusing to engage in those types of conversations. This family member eventually mostly stopped trying to make those comments and have those conversations. (Aside from the small occasional comment which I would just not engage this person in, so they'd stop right away.) It took some time to get it right, but only because of how long it took me to figure out what my boundaries needed to be.
I have to remember that it isn't my job to make sure everything goes okay. It isn't my job to step in and handle other people's trials for them. Neither of those are in Heavenly Father's plan for me. If I am to be a tool in His hands, I need to ask what He'd have me do and not just charge in when I see trouble. I have to stop trying to save other people. I have to stop seeking out other people's drama, even though it's exciting and makes me feel important. I need to ask Heavenly Father to know His will.
There is a lot I have to be able to do on a daily basis. I used to spend all my energy on other people's special circumstances. Which left me drained and unable to be there for myself and my little family. I thought everyone was expecting too much from me. I thought I was being used or treated poorly. But it was all my doing. My choices led to every last one of my problems.
That really hurt when I accepted it as truth. But it was quite empowering as well. Because my choices can lead me to peace and happiness. Especially when I remember I don't drive the bus. This is Heavely Father's world and He just lends me a place in it.
The more I remember and apply these things in my life, the happier I am. I can be there for my family and be able to help others. And I am more effective in both of those spheres. I rocks my world when I can be a tool for good.
__________________
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
I agree with Hiccups. Feeling used is most often a symptom of failure to establish and enforce appropriate boundaries. Not always... but imo it's a good place to start looking for a solution.
Funny you should use the word chicken. Because I struggle with making boundaries too. I worry that I'll hurt someone's feelings, or that I'm not being Christlike if I set limits. I think women, especially in the LDS community, believe that nice equals Christlike. I'm not convinced that's true. Or maybe I'm just rationalizing.
I've long believed that being 'nice' is a total pitfall in our society. Anyone who is not 'nice' all of the time is publicly condemned when in actuality being 'nice' is not being good or Christlike at all! That's why I still say I'm not really a user or a used...I had to learn to set those boundaries years ago. Though it took counseling and years of hard work to learn to be able to do it.
