Celestial Enticements

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Celestial Enticements

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

Being a god and making worlds without number? That sounds awsome! It's like the cool parts of science class combined with some sort of sci fi adventure. I want to be omnipotent, all knowing, all wise, etc. Anyone who says they don't crave the power a little bit is either not being honest or never experienced a little bit of power and dominion. Of course it is probably more like magnifying a calling but even that feels good. When you have a calling you really like and do it well it feels great.

I've already got my worlds designed out. It's going to be like stargate with little stargates on each planet. I'm going to have all kinds of cool planets with forests, jungles, dessets, mountains, etc. Exploring the universe and seeing the amazing wonders of science and math played out in the eternities. This is the eternity that appeals to me. The playing harps and singing angels stuff of so many other denominations does nothing to motivate me.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I think it is because God wants righteous people to take responsibility for their communities and get involved in more than living quietly in isolation. It gives us pause to think about how the universe works too... I think the universe itself responds to a nature that is without coercion and with pure intent, and in a way, I suppose you can't help but be master of all things when you master yourself. Because we are children of God, and we have a great potential, because our Father is Great.

I think of that quote that says that our greatest fear is not that we are ugly or weak, or incapable but that we are powerful and beautiful and capable, for therein all the responsibilities lie.

If we are a victim, we can always be excused, but there's no excuse for one of divine worth.

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

I think that the concepts of service and dominion are compatible in the gospel sense of those words. The Lord has always told us that leaders should serve the people. His purpose and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. In other words, He's using his supreme power to serve us.
So, in my mind, there's no disconnect. You could say that service leads to ultimate power, and in a very real sense be correct.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

The idea that I can become a god and do all that my Father can, create, know, etc. is a HUGE enticement for me. I want the power and dominion, the saying goes, power corrupts, but absolute power is kind of fun. hehe Anyway, our mortal existance is to prepare us for this very sort of thing, to control ourselves. What prevents God from snapping us into oblivion or acting like some kind mythological Greek god, Himself. God has all power, and He is in control because He over came all, just what we are working on.

If it weren't for this, I would probably want to laugh with the sinner than cry with the saints.

Not only do power and dominion not contradict what we are doing here, they prepare us for it in righteousness.

I am with Duke on this, I want to create, learn, know, have a tropical paradise planet, a Swiss Alps planet that looks like the Swiss canton Tessin (Ticino). Probably need a planet for each wife! wink

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

I want to be able to recreate Lamoille Canyon and have a cabin there...among other neat things!

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

I'm gonna have the shooting range of all shooting ranges with all the best weapons, nukes, flame throwers, plasma rifles, grenade launchers, tanks, electric rail guns, fire and brimstone, the works! I can't wait!

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

A planet for each wife? Wow, this is way-haaay better than what the radical Islamists are getting. Sheesh, what's their short-sided problem?

(Can you see how some of the "more humble" Christian types could be turned off by this stuff?)

Not you particularly, val, it's our actual doctrine I'm talking about.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Duke of Mirth wrote:

I'm gonna have the shooting range of all shooting ranges with all the best weapons, nukes, flame throwers, plasma rifles, grenade launchers, tanks, electric rail guns, fire and brimstone, the works! I can't wait!

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Maybe Duke can be in charge of "the other place" on weekends, or something...

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

I want a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range!

Those who know, know where of I speak!

Yup, Coco, if you're gonna think big, think real big.

As to being turned off, well, to me it makes logical sense. Since most "other Christians" do not view heaven at all the way we doctrinally believe, I can see where it might be an issue.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Oh, I can think big. Don't worry 'bout that.

It's just sometimes when the topic comes up of the pilots of 9/11 or whatever else is in the works, and how they're looking forward to the seven virgins and stuff and sort of look down and think to myself, "If only they knew what people in MY religion think they're getting in the next life." And I REALLY don't get how any LDSs can "mock" this at all.

Smaug · Senior Member

I'm being honest when I say that those "enticements" aren't what makes me want to be a good person. I just want to be good because the Lord wants me to be. Period. And I fall far short of what I should be.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Do you think that makes you more deserving of such rewards?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Are we judged by our motives?

Smaug · Senior Member

rayb wrote:

Do you think that makes you more deserving of such rewards?

Are you talking to me, Ray?

Janey · Senior Member

The idea that God has all power isn't quite accurate. Compared to us, he has a lot of power. But he is bound by law. If God breaks a law, such as infringing on free agency or trying to remove consequences, he ceases to be God.

Alma 42
13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

. . .
15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.

. . .

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the claw, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.
So besides all the nifty stuff about creating your dream world, you also have to atone for the sins of the worlds you create. If you try to bend the rules, you cease to be God and everything you ever created gets zapped into non-existence. Satan's plan of bending the rules to save everyone would have destroyed God. God implemented the plan that included our free agency because to do otherwise would not only damn our progression, it would also have ended his Godhood.

2 Nephi 2:13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

Essentially, being God means perfectly obeying the law. Studying that law may take us a fair chunk of time after this life. I imagine after we've internalized the law to the point that we will never break it, the importance of the power we're getting may overawe us into reverence more than spur us to splurge.

D&C 88:34 And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment.
If we can't obey the laws, we can't be sanctified.

I know people were just kidding around with some of the silly comments. I don't mean to be a wet blanket or anything and I should have just said something funny. But the ideas of the laws that God has to obey are just really interesting to me, so I thought I'd throw in a few scriptures to consider. God doesn't have absolute power - he has absolute obedience to absolute laws. His power (which is omnipotent) derives directly from his obedience (which is perfect). But he can't break the laws. Our quest to become like God requires us to study, understand and obey the same laws God does.

-- Edited by Janey at 20:21, 2008-02-15

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Janey!! You. Are. Awesome.

Ros · Senior Member

Actually, my thought was that being a God, creating worlds without number and children to populate them, then attempting to teach and guide said millions of children and standing by while so many of them spit in your face....seems like a whole lot of work to me.

All the service we are asked to do here is just teaching us how to do the ultimate service of being a God. I don't know anyone who has sacrificed more or has more to do.

Janey · Senior Member

Coco - you're welcome. :)

And Ros, that's an excellent point.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

We are just in the first phases. We passed the first estate, we are working hard here in the 2nd estate.

Who knows what else we'll be required to pass through in order to become like Them.

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

Right now I just want to be with my sweetheart and children in the presence of Father forever. I can worry about the rest later.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Smaug: yeah, I'm curious if you think it's somehow more virtuous to not want what God's offering those for exaltation?

Cuz it sorta reminds me of the fellow who buried his talents, and I reflect on this a lot, because I often get the feeling that God would have me be so much more than I am, if I had more of a spiritual backbone.

--Ray

Smaug · Senior Member

Ray, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a great thing to have all of those things. What I'm saying is that seems so far above and beyond what I currently am that I can only allow myself to focus on getting rid of my flaws and being the best I can be--and if that ends up being good enough to earn celestial rewards, I will be the epitome of happiness. Spiritual backbone is a great term and to me that means among other things, being willing to stand up for what's right, when everyone around you is folding like an old tent. It means serving others, but not to "run faster than you have strength". It means being a good example in word and deed. I hope you're not saying that you personally are burying your talents. I think everyone has so much to give and share---all we need to do is not be afraid to do so.

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

I really want that shooting range!

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Broaden your horizons, dude.

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

Alright, a shooting range and a tropical paradise. Shees!

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I wonder (really) how much time ... yeah, I realize time is not measured the way we measure it here... but y'know, what percentage of existence... does HF spend on "recreation and leisure" if there is such a thing...

dianoia · Senior Member

one day in seven?

arbilad · Head Chef

It'll be interesting to find out how that works. Because, from our point of view, everything that we depend on the Lord for he still continues to do on the Sabbath. He still answers prayers on the Sabbath. He still works miracles for us, keeps us from danger, comforts us in our afflictions, etc. So if He rests on the Sabbath, what activity is he not doing?
Of course, time is not counted to the Lord like it is to men, so 1 day in 7 wouldn't have much meaning for Him anyway.

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

arbilad wrote:

So if He rests on the Sabbath, what activity is he not doing?
Of course, time is not counted to the Lord like it is to men, so 1 day in 7 wouldn't have much meaning for Him anyway.

It's helpful to me to think of what I should be focusing on for the Sabbath and not what I shouldn't be doing. I think that would make sense when thinking of Heavenly Father, because He knows what He needs to be doing (the best of the good, better, best) even if it's because we've gotten our oxen into the mire somehow. And whether keeping the Sabbath day holy is something that we can get exhalted beyond having it be applicable, I don't really know. And trying to comphrend God's idea of time makes my head hurt.

Duke of Mirth · Profuse Pontificator

And if each day is like a thousand of ours, I can really hit the range for a time and then the tropical paradise.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Moses 3:1 Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day I, God, ended my work, and all things which I had made; and I rested on the seventh day from all my work, and all things which I had made were finished, and I, God, saw that they were good;
3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.

This has always utterly confused me. I'm also curious... what exactly is the Lord resting from? Bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man? How does someone become weary of doing good so that they need a rest? Does He need a rest? Or is it just a symbolic thing... see, and it's ironic, too, because we more or less "focus" on the Lord more on the Sabbath, rather than "taking a rest" from religion or the work of the Lord.

And the "saw that they were good" thing... What- is that some new information? Like he's just figuring that out? He didn't know it was going to be good before He started?