It won't let me vote Ray! But I did watch a few rated R movies when I was young and stupid.

The only rated R movies we watch now are the edited for T.V. variety.

I remember Cat being bummed when "The Last of the Mohicans" came out and it was rated R.

I took the "I watch whatever I want" option; with the caveat that I read reviews beforehand, and I really only watch R-rated movies that have some quality (Gladiator, Sixth Sense, Punch Drunk Love, to name a few).

LoudmouthMormon wrote:

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.... be aware that 90% of everything is crap and not worth your time" category.

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Oh yeah, so very, very true. 

FWIW, did your avatar come from a Chick tract?

Yeah, I put that option in specifically for the Card camp...

I've read that particular article. It's okay. I've kinda gotten to the point now, however, where I just don't bother with a movie that I have to read all sorts of research before justifying seeing... cuz I've just not got the time for it. :)

I'm still stinging from such bad eggs as Happy Feet, which my mom took the kids to see, thinking it'd be great for the kids... dancing penguins... and we all came away with a sick feeling... way to go grandma! ;)

--Ray

Not that there is that much out there worth watching anymore. I think we saw one non kids movie in the theater this past year.

Supposedly there is some cool shoot the zombies end of the world flick out there right now, but I haven't seen it. Some say it's pretty good some say it isn't.

If it has Hot Alien Vixens or hot babes shooting large quantities of ammunition, then I wait until it has been edited on T.V. and watch it.

Hmmmmm, Resident Evil...........

I have watched a few R movies on TV / cable, but nothing rented or at the movie theatre.

I'm very selective, and try not to make it a habit. Some very well done, and in some respect praiseworthy in many cases, movies end up with the R rating for such things like the level of violence (the mini-series Band of Brothers comes to mind), but by and large, I think that is usually the exception than the rule. Most R movies I've seen weren't worth the time invested.

Absolutely NOT a fan of OSC.

I don't watch them. I have no desire to watch them.

But for those who aren't strong in verbal/linguistic learning, film can be a much more effective teacher.

I also submit that it's even harder to judge the content of books--no MPAA ratings to warn of literature that is porn without pictures.

Ray, this is one poll where you should have included the Canadian option.

Late last night several things that had me about this thread suddenly shifted and went click.

Do you not have a "Mature" rating in the States? Is "I Am Legend" rated R down there?

Ros wrote:

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Then my wise husband said "But the prophet said not to" and how could I argue with that???
-- Edited by Ros at 16:21, 2007-12-18

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Easy:  No prophet has said "don't see R-rated movies."  Leaders have said to carefully control the content of what we DO see, but that is not the same thing.

Don't think you're safe just by eschewing movies with a certain rating determined by the world.  I'd watch "Gladiator" a million times before I'd watch a lot of the supposedly "safe" PG or PG-13 stuff.

Hoss Cartwright wrote:

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Ros wrote:

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Then my wise husband said "But the prophet said not to" and how could I argue with that???
-- Edited by Ros at 16:21, 2007-12-18

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Easy:  No prophet has said "don't see R-rated movies."  Leaders have said to carefully control the content of what we DO see, but that is not the same thing.

Don't think you're safe just by eschewing movies with a certain rating determined by the world.  I'd watch "Gladiator" a million times before I'd watch a lot of the supposedly "safe" PG or PG-13 stuff.

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How about this one? 

President Ezra Taft Benson taught:

"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don't listen to music that is degrading." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.222)

I think his exact words are "Don't see R-Rated Movies".  Willing to amend your statement Hoss?

No "mature" rating for movies, although we do have it for Video games and TV programs.
I didn't know that.

Up here we've got G, PG, PG-13, M, R and 18A.

And Hoss, Gladiator was rated M up here. (I learned something new today, every province has its own movie rating system. Personally, I find that ridiculous, but there you have it.)

Hoss, you can watch whatever you like but I don't want anyone thinking that no prophet has ever said not to watch Rated-R movies.

Indeed.

Duke of Mirth wrote:

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"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don't listen to music that is degrading." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.222)

I think his exact words are "Don't see R-Rated Movies".  Willing to amend your statement Hoss?

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How easily we are led astray by the evil selective use of bold type.  Here's my attempt to get you all back on the straight and narrow with the glorious and sanctioned tactic of font reduction:

"Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that [are] immoral, suggestive, or pornographic."

No, there has never been a modern prophet that has ever told us "Don't see R-rated movies."  That blanket general statement has never been made.  What we do have a modern prophet telling us, is we should stay away from anything immoral, suggestive, or pornographic - and you can find these things in R-rated movies, vulgar videos, and other forms of entertainment. 

Now, all that said, it may very well be impossible to find an R-rated movie that is devoid of anything immoral, suggestive, or pornographic.  But we can argue the merits of Passion of the Christ and Saving Private Ryan, and Schindler's List with the two skin scenes edited out. 

To conclude, here is a very relevant discourse from someone on the subject of how all violence is not degrading:

If violence is merely for 'entertainment' or shock value, it falls into the 'wanton' category that others have condemned--and I would join my voice with theirs and yours in such condemnation. 

However, not ALL movies are intended to be 'entertainment.' They may be held as such by some individuals, and may even have 'a side-effect' of being such--but many have the potential to be MUCH more than that. So it is with violence itself. Let me give you an example: While attending BYU, I worked as an assistant shepherd. No, not at the MTC or anything--I mean literally. The year after I returned from my mission, I worked for the BYU Sheep Unit, where I shepherded a flock of 250+ sheep. The man I worked for--the Head Shepherd--was an older gentleman by the name of Warren Kuhl. He had worked with sheep for many years, and had a wisdom about him that I admired--he was a 'shepherd philosopher' of sorts. I loved working for him, and he and I shared many great conversations, both spiritual and secular. I learned a lot during that fall and winter about taking care of sheep--feeding, breeding, lambing--as well as about life itself from Warren.

In the spring of that year, Warren asked me to come down to one of the buildings one afternoon. He wanted to teach me some additional things about sheep. Once I arrived, he told me that we had to round up a group of them to take to slaughter house (which was located right there as part of BYU's farm). He asked if I would be willing to participate and help. I willingly did so. We rounded up the sheep, and drove them into the slaughter house. He showed me how the sheep were killed by using a special type of device (I can't remember the name). This was done by holding the foot-long metal cylinder vertically against the top of the sheep's skull. Then, by pushing a button, the device would fire a metal piston straight down through the sheep's skull and into it's brain, thus killing it instantly. Warren invited me to participate in the slaughter.

I have never hunted, nor killed anything. I am person if gentle disposition--never prone to violence nor bloodshed, so it was difficult for me to do. But Warren's approach was one of quiet invitation, not abrasive cajoling, and I did so--holding the sheeps' heads while he pulled the triggers, and even pulling that trigger once myself for one of the sheep.

Later that afternoon, as we tended the rest of flock, Warren and I talked about that experience. He explained why he invited me to participate. Warren was a quiet, gentle man--a man who loved his sheep, though NOT a vegetarian nor an animal rights activist. He felt that in today's 'convenience obsessed society,' too many people are so used to going to the supermarket and picking up their prepackaged, weighed, cellophane-wrapped bundles of meat, they do not give a second thought to the lives that are given on their behalves. We spoke of life--of death----of stewardships--of the earth and all it's creations--of God's plan. We spoke of reverence for those of God's creations that we are stewards over, those animals who's lives we take in order to sustain our own. We spoke of bloodshed, and giving thanks. The slaughter was a violent and bloody experience. It was a unique and singular experience. It was a spiritual experience that had a profound and deeply moving affect on me--one that affects my attitudes about violence and life and death to this very day. And we were 'just' talking about sheep.

Would such an experience have been appropriate for children? Most definitely NOT. Was such an experience 'entertainment'? Most definitely NOT. Was such an experience 'violent'? Most definitely. Was it appropriate? Most definitely. I am grateful for Warren's wisdom in teaching me the value of life--of non-violence--of gratitude for those who give their lives through such so we may live.

Wanton violence is NEVER appropriate--especially in entertainment. Such is--and SHOULD be--condemned by The First Presidency. But not all violence is mere entertainment, nor sport--nor are all movies.
ad

-- Edited by LoudmouthMormon at 15:32, 2007-12-19

You know, in my opinion, it is probably a pretty good thing to not justify seeing R movies (or M if that is the equivalent in Canada ) even if it is only because of violence (e.g. war movies where battle scenes are recreated). Why? Well, I remember watching Band of Brothers and Black Hawk Down on cable TV, and while they were indeed movies that gave the viewer a feel for what the events must have been like for the people who were actually involved, it is kind of almost like the next best thing to actually being there... in so far as the imagery that is placed in your mind.

What I'm getting at is that while it is too often necessary for our men and women in uniform to be in harms way in the real world, many of them suffer from the memories of having been in combat / at murder investigation crime scenes / etc. What possible good does it do us in the long run, when we don't have to make that sacrifice, to willingly invite images into our minds and memory that probably still pale to the real thing -- simply by watching a movie? No, not all of these will necessarily cause us to shut the door on the Spirit, but I can honestly say in my personal case that for a while after, my receptivity to the Spirit has typically been strained. Why? Because I have gone against the counsel of His annointed? Or because of the imagery, violence, language, or other content that may be considered unholy and impure by The Holy Ghost? Or a combination of both?

How close are we to keeping our side of the Sacramental prayers when we willingly chose to fill our minds with that which does not edify? Maybe it is something we all can think more about and work on improving with our movie and other entertainment selections.

rayb wrote:

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LM: So you're of the opinion that realistic portrayals of graphic violence within the context of realism is appropriate?

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No.  I'm of the opinion that it is occasionally appropriate.  See the story about slaughtering sheep for one example.

So he states he's a visual learner... just what about "killing" does he need to learn? In the story I post above, the author explains several things he learned by holding the head of the sheep as the steel bold pierced it's brain.  Even after reading and thinking about that story for years, I don't really think I've learned those things.  Perhaps a similar experience would help me.

It has now been proven that graphic media and videogames desensitize the brain to more graphic violence. I suppose we all need a little toughening up, but how much is too much? Please understand, I'm not advocating we place a premium on the value of violence.  I'm not advocating we can't learn without it.  I'm saying 2 things:
1- The church counsels (and I agree), that getting entertainment out of watching violence isn't good for us, and should be avoided.
2- That said, I don't believe there is nothing we can learn from coming face-to-face with violence.  I see uses and value, in some circumstances for witnessing it.

Example #2: My kids and I watched a news report about a high-speed police chase that ended with the guy all bent over the hood of a cop car and cuffed.  It was an entirely appropriate and very good way to teach many things.  Dangers of cars, bad guys, and life in general.  Running from cops.  Cops are good guys.  And they learnt the lessons well.

It's not like you can actually FEEL the pain of the victims, so the blood and gore becomes a spectacle... We agree - spectacles are not in our best interest.  But I've witnessed violence that has not been a spectacle, and posted some examples as well.

I'm curious if you feel the same way about sexually graphic content? If it is given within the context of teaching a very powerful point, why is it bad? My answer is no, I don't feel the same way about it.  I have a tainted and dark (but fully repented of) history full of learning things via these channels.  And with only one or two exceptions, they've all come back to bite me in various ways.  Many of them still do. 

But then, how do we think about a book on 'appropriate marital relations' sexually graphic?  There's church-approved books out there (like And They Were Not Ashamed) with no pictures, but very explicit and detailed texts on the subject of the birds and the bees... 

Doesn't there come a point where you avert your eyes?Most assuredly.  Again, I'm not advocating violence as a cure for our ignorance.  I'm not ignoring it's dangers.  I'm just also pointing to it's potential uses.
 
And what messages in particular are suitable for adults but not children? And what about that whole messy area between childhood and adulthood?I ain't no expert.  I would guess much of it is child-specific.  My oldest girl demanded to see the body when we found our dog dead - and she asked a bunch of questions which we answered openly and honestly, until she was satisfied.  My youngest may be different.  As a parent, whatever exposure I give them will be, to the extent I can control it, things that will not traumatize, but will teach.  (Like watching the chase on tv.)  I can see taking older kids to a slaughterhouse, or even having some chickens at some point and chopping heads off with axes.  I would love to have daughters that know how to butcher a deer.


I'm curious why I am less of a person for never having watched Schindler's List, when watching "Life is Beautiful" was enough to haunt me the whole night after I watched it, and shadowy figures kept appearing to me in the night? I don't consider anyone less of a person for listening to themselves and avoiding things they consider harmfull.  People's tolerance level and ability to be traumatized are different.  It doesn't seem to be something we consciously set in ourselves, so I got no right judging their settings.

I'm just advancing the notion that some good can be found here, sometimes.

LM

Oh, come on Ray, you just like stiring the pot to see what happens. You're like my buddy who tossed a soup can in the camp fire back in scout camp. You just can't help yourself either!

Cocobeem wrote:

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Duke of Mirth wrote:


President Ezra Taft Benson taught:

"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don't listen to music that is degrading." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.222)

Whew! He said "young men."

Pres. Benson loved Skousen - how much can he really know anyway?

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blasphemy, but yeah.

I'm more partial to tuna myself...

How 'bout a jumbo shrimp?

I agree with Valhalla. I find Band of Brothers and Blackhawk Down inspiring. I have the pictures of Gary Gordon and Randy Shugart on the inside of my gun safe door. I see thier faces and I am reminded of thier actions every day as I head out the door for work. Inspiring.