MITT ROMNEY CHALLENGE

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

MITT ROMNEY CHALLENGE

Organist · Senior Member

Maybe you should tape those questions on U-Tube for any upcoming debates.

While I wish for the downfall of all secret societies, I don't know enough about the Cullen Frost Bankers to denounce them. The original intent of the Bilderberg Group is to promote understanding between Europe and North America, though only rich people were invited, 2 from each country, one liberal and one conservative. I find it hard to believe that they are responsible for Timothy Mcveigh, Osama bin Laden, the downfall of Yugoslavia, and bombings in London as many conspiracy theorists claim.

The federal reserve seems to play an important stabilizing force in today's economy, an economy that would collapse repeatedly if still under the banking systems of the 1790s.

The UN is not unconstitutional. The constitution is the supreme law of the land. The constitution states that any treaty we enter into is just as binding. The UN plays very important roles in dialogue and world affairs.

Do you believe that Mitt Romney is going to promote a pro-gay rights agenda as president? I don't. I can support that without hesitation.

I am concerned that we will enter into more wars under Romney because no one will stand up to and dismantle the Military Industrial complex, but I am worried about that with every candidate.

The biggest spread of the gay agenda is happening right now in the media. Sitcoms, dramas, and cartoons are all portraying gay lifestyles as completely mainstream and normal and anyone opposed as a biggot worthy of shunning. Those shows are seeking and succeeding in changing the hearts and minds of the American people, more so than any politician. I think Mitt stands the best chance (though ultimately futile) in defeating these evils that will prove the downfall of our way of life.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Okay, I'll take your bait... and raise you ten.

1. Can't denounce an acronym and name of something I've never heard of until you uncannily revealed my total and utter ignorance just now... Will you publicly denounce the NPS, NCA, and the Sloan Foundation?

2. As much as I dislike the UN, if I were to denounce it I would also have to denounce all the treaties and diplomacy and relations that we as a nation have with every other nation (which I believe are constitutional...). I like the fact that we can effectively pull the plug on the UN pretty easily by not paying our "dues" and that we reserve the right to conduct congressional investigations of said body... Will you denounce the musical "1776" as only being loosely written on historical accounts and in many cases the dramatic license taken is unbecoming of some of the Founding Fathers?

3. Will you ask for a public stance from Paul towards how his view of not having any troops stationed anywhere outside the U.S. and that nobody is directly threatening our national security is not the same as isolationism?

4. Are you aware that those accusations are as old and taken out of context as OJ Simpson's lawyer's (Johnny Cochrane) argument "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit!"?

5. Do ninja deer assassin squads concern you?

6. Will you ask your candidate to open and publicly state how his stating "I don't support abortion, but I don't want to pass any federal law to regulate it" passes must for being a more staunch anti-abortion politician than Gov. Romney? Will you ask your candidate if he ever performed an abortion in the course of his private practice as an OB/GYN?

p.s. Ooops! I forgot a response to the Federal Reserve question... Please renumber by adding one to the posted number to each response starting at #2. Okay, here goes... Since I have no opinion about the Federal Reserve or the claim it is unconstitutional, how about explaining how Dr. Paul says he does not have a history of racist commentary and yet he had some pretty rude things to say about the LA riots in one of his 1992 newsletters...

-- Edited by Cat Herder at 11:39, 2007-12-05

Randy · Senior Member

Mitt supported gay marriage? When? Is this all about the fact that he didn't use the power that he supposedly has as governor to rule his state as absolute dictator and quash the ruling of the state supreme court when it said that gay marriage must be legalized?

Randy · Senior Member

Oh, and sure, consider the UN denounced.

arbilad · Head Chef

Randy wrote:

Mitt supported gay marriage? When? Is this all about the fact that he didn't use the power that he supposedly has as governor to rule his state as absolute dictator and quash the ruling of the state supreme court when it said that gay marriage must be legalized?

What the Massachusetts Supreme Court said was that the state legislature must enact legislation to make it legal. While they did overstep their bounds tremendously, they didn't go so far as to make gay marriage legal by judicial fiat. They said that a law must be passed to implement it.
So here's an excercise for you, Randy: please point out to me the enabling legislation that the Massachusetts State Legislature passed. I have done a few searches, and have not been able to find it. In the absence of such legislation, Gov. Romney was under no obligation to enforce gay marriage, which he did anyway.

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

Cat Herder wrote:

Okay, I'll take your bait... and raise you ten.

1. Can't denounce an acronym and name of something I've never heard of until you uncannily revealed my total and utter ignorance just now... Will you publicly denounce the NPS, NCA, and the Sloan Foundation?
Are you serious or sarcastic? You are unfamiliar with Bilderberger and CFR (COUNCIL ON FORIEGN RELATIONS)? What about NAU (NORTH AMERICAN UNION). WHAT ABOUT TRANS TEXAS CORRIDOR and toll roads from Mexico to Canada that are planned to be ran by foriegn contractors? OK more on these subjects in another thread soon.
2. As much as I dislike the UN, if I were to denounce it I would also have to denounce all the treaties and diplomacy and relations that we as a nation have with every other nation (which I believe are constitutional...). I like the fact that we can effectively pull the plug on the UN pretty easily by not paying our "dues" and that we reserve the right to conduct congressional investigations of said body... Will you denounce the musical "1776" as only being loosely written on historical accounts and in many cases the dramatic license taken is unbecoming of some of the Founding Fathers?
(Well I take it you dislike the UN and its unconstitutional actions, just not the claimed benificial ones?)

3. Will you ask for a public stance from Paul towards how his view of not having any troops stationed anywhere outside the U.S. and that nobody is directly threatening our national security is not the same as isolationism?
That is not the same as isolationism, nor do I believe that is the direct stance of RP. RON PAUL simply demands following the constitution, declaring war when and if necessary and not get into entangling aliances and missions based on false info and lack of proper procedure.

4. Are you aware that those accusations are as old and taken out of context as OJ Simpson's lawyer's (Johnny Cochrane) argument "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit!"? WHich accusations specificly are you denouncing?

5. Do ninja deer assassin squads concern you?

6. Will you ask your candidate to open and publicly state how his stating "I don't support abortion, but I don't want to pass any federal law to regulate it" passes must for being a more staunch anti-abortion politician than Gov. Romney? Will you ask your candidate if he ever performed an abortion in the course of his private practice as an OB/GYN?
I Dont need to ask any such question, IN all his years of delivering babies he has never even seen a medical needed abortion. He has publicly stated that his position is that of proper role of Federal Governent and that he believes abortion is a crime.

Randy · Senior Member

The legislature didn't have to do anything because the supreme court did their work for them. While this is a glaring example of judicial overreach, and highly inappropriate, it was settled by the state that that was how things were going to be done.

Since Romney fought both the legislature and the supreme court on this issue, it is unfair to say that Romney supported gay marriage.

The source of disagreement is how far can a governor go to overturn the established legal precedents of a state without the support of any of the institutions of the state, not whether or not Romney supported gay marriage.

Of all the people who could have been governor of Mass., I'd bet that Romney is the only one that could have staunched the spread of gay marriage from his state to the other states by enforcing a long-forgotten law from the early 20th century. No one else would have even considered it, I'll bet. I think he deserves a lot of credit for that.

Euphrasie · Senior Bucketkeeper

hiddentreasuredotws wrote:

CHALLENGE TO MITT ROMNEY Supporters...

Will you publicly denounce CFR and BILDERBERGER GROUPS?
No. I find concerns about these and other groups alarmist and paranoid.
WHAT is your position on the Federal Reserve and the fact that is was consieved with fraud and secrecy by Americas Banking elite?
Whatever its origin, the Reserve is a highly functional and useful institution. I don't think causing widespread chaos and panic is worth any tiny (supposed) moral victory.
Do you denounce the Unconstitutional UN and role it plays in US policy?
Whatever. I don't like it, but I don't find it unconstitutional. The argument over the UN is old news.
Will you ask for public stance from Romney towards these DOMESTIC Enemies?
Sorry, which domestic enemies? Or does all this have to be capitalized? If you mean the previous 3, no I don't need a public stance on a thin conspiracy theory, a practical institution, or a moot argument.
Are you aware that in the past MITT ROMNEY has supported GAY MArriage and GAY scout leadership agendas.
Why, no. I was not aware of that. In fact, all indicators seem to point the other way, in my opinion. Unless, of course, we are defining "supporting gays" as "not persecuting gays."
Do any of these issues concern you.
Not really, but thanks.
Will you ask your candidate to openly and publicly denounce these domestic enemies of freedom?
Sorry, which enemies again? The whole list? No, I'm good.

-- Edited by Euphrasie at 12:09, 2007-12-05

arbilad · Head Chef

Randy, at the time, there was a universal understanding that the legislature would need to pass a law to implement the supreme courts decision. They gave the legislature a deadline. That deadline came and went with no legislation being passed.
The Massachusetts Supreme Court said that there needed to be an implementing law. The legislature agreed that they needed to pass a law. The press reported the issue as requiring a law to be passed. But no law was passed.

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

More on Romney

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/

Romney has actually made statements in favor of gay scout leaders and gay rights.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Euphie (and others) pretty much have stated my response.

--Ray

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

hiddentreasures...
1. Yes I am being totally and over the top sarcastic. And yes I have heard of all the latter things you mentioned... But, can you tell me what the NPS and NCA and Sloan Foundation are and if they should be denounced?

2. I may dislike the UN, but I never said having relations with it or that it exists was unconstitutional. Don't put words in my mouth that were never uttered.

3. According to Webster's dictionary, isolationism is "The doctrine that a nation should stay out of the disputes and affairs of other nations." Other dictionary sources for the word / concept include the following: "A national policy of abstaining from political or economic relations with other countries"; "the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities." Seems to me that a lot of what he has actually said (and is documented as such in transcripts) matchs those definitions.

4. Why, the accusations you were making about Romney...

6. And what evidence do you have to support that he has never performed one, even for medical necessity? His word? His word is better than the word of his opponents?

I found some interesting things about Dr. Paul...

Were you aware he feels that it should be legal to grow hemp domestically (of course only for industrial purposes and then under the control of the individual state)?

Or were you aware that concerning one of the things in D&C 89 that precipitated the Lord's statement "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days..." Dr. Paul is all over the board, seemingly even contradicting himself about tobacco and the tobacco company lawsuits / settlement... At one point, he accuses the tobacco industry of not fighting the government enough about having to label cigarettes as he indicates that is the reason the FDA and governments started to sue them, then he says that the tobacco company execs are in cahoots with big government to prevent handling of smoking as innocuously as "chocolate addiction, or driving too fast." Then another time he says "The whole notion that tobacco companies should pay for tobacco-related illnesses is absurd."

You know, I don't think we have a huge demand for industrial hemp in this nation any longer, certainly not enough to produce it ourselves and potentially open the door for more under-the-table marijauna growth, particularly in states with liberal attitudes towards it. Nor do I think someone who puts more trust in an industry that creates products that do much scientifically proven harm to those who use it than in the common sense to make them responsible for that harm is really what the nation needs right now...

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

Romney flyer

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57786

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Oh yeah... guess we forgot...

The fouding dean of The 700's Club owner's university's law school has a better understanding of the law in action than the Governor in office and that Governor's Attorney General... and that taking a platform of standing for equal rights in terms of non-discrimination is the same as advocating same-sex marriage.

That is soooo Hollywood dogma... It's no wonder so many on either side can't see the forest for the trees... No one is actually willing to acknowledge there is a difference except for those of us more moderate conservatives...

Randy · Senior Member

The following was written my David French, a lawyer (now serving in Iraq) who has argued cases before the supreme court. But the thing is, he's better with words than I am. Although this opinion may or not be wrong, it would be unfair to say that this is proof that he is for gay marriage. Some people think that one's interpretation of law should hinge on whether that interpretation gets you what you want or not. It is possible for an officer of the law to enforce a law that he disagrees with. In fact, it is his duty to do so. David French is also an evangelical who is against gay marriage and abortion. Skip down to the sixth paragraph:

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/front_page/airing_the_dirty_laundry.php

TitusTodd · Senior Member

What about NAU (NORTH AMERICAN UNION). WHAT ABOUT TRANS TEXAS CORRIDOR and toll roads from Mexico to Canada that are planned to be ran by foriegn contractors?

Someone here is a snipe hunter.

Pt314 · Senior Member

Oh no, I thought the whole link to mass resistance, and then bash Romney thing was a rest of the internet thing. There is no refuge to this madness.

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

The record shows he supported gays during a campaign effort. This also led to a gay following of supporters for him. I am not convinced he is for gay marriage, just that his record shows claimed direct support for a campaign effort.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Randy wrote:
The following was written my David French,

Randy that is REALLY interesting that your should quote that site because hubby sent a related one to me earlier today. Hubby and I have not decided who we are voting for yet... It's way too early in the game... but the kinds of attacks I see on certain candidates do nothing to win my vote for someone else's wonderboy choice. (This post brought to you by my hubby, who is following the political threads... even though he is not a member.)

In particular, we both found this quote interesting and it is true for me about all the candidates that are already slinging mud and thrashing everyone verbally they don't "completely" agree with I find beyond irritating:

I am officially sick of e-mails that question our salvation (and our sanity, but the former is what really drives me nuts) because we support Governor Romney. I don't know about Nancy and Steve, but I'm getting an increased number of them these days. I used to respond to them, for the very reason that all of us needed some convincing in order to support Governor Romney, and we know others who were the same way.

However, as I think about it more, there's a significant difference between some of the people I've tried to convince and the e-mails I've gotten lately. Namely, it's one thing to have some questions and even to be a little discomfited--but it's entirely another to launch vicious attacks and, in case you haven't gotten the memo that I don't like this, questioning someone's salvation on the basis of a political disagreement.

-- Edited by PollyAnna at 21:57, 2007-12-05

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

I'm not going to dignify the original post with a response.

.

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

hiddentreasuredotws wrote:

Romney flyer

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57786

Randy · Senior Member

hiddentreasuredotws wrote:

The record shows he supported gays during a campaign effort. This also led to a gay following of supporters for him. I am not convinced he is for gay marriage, just that his record shows claimed direct support for a campaign effort.

In that case, I'm glad that you decided to stop claiming that Mitt Romney supported gay marriage. You have plenty of legitimate reasons for opposing Mitt Romney without making incorrect claims.

DaKnife · Senior Member

And why would anyone try to cite an article in the WDN, to settle a debate? That site is a tabloid and nothing else. If you want to back your position up find a reputable news source.

Otherwise I'm with Cat.

I will note that I was unaware Paul was so stringently isolationist. That absolutely loses any chance of him ever getting my vote. The problems of the world will not go away just because we are ignoring them, they will only get worse. I don't like being deployed overseas, but we have an established role in this world, we have treaty obligations to follow through on and those include troops overseas. Those treaties, including the ones that established the UN, were ratified by congress as required by the Constitution, thus we must honor them. Further, like Iraq or not, to precipitously pull out would leave a vacuum, that would create a much bigger problem than what we have now.

I've stated that I support Romney, but any and all of the others, even Hillary will get my vote before an avowed isolationist. And as a soldier I am effectively putting my life on the line with that statement. According to his platform, I would face no risk of deployment. With anyone else we are going to have soldiers in harms way, regardless of their campaign stances, we will not be pulling out of Iraq immediately. Regardless of who wins, we most certainly won't be pulling out of Afganistan, which both sides still support.

arbilad · Head Chef

And why would anyone try to cite an article in the WDN, to settle a debate? That site is a tabloid and nothing else. If you want to back your position up find a reputable news source.

Strange that you should say that, when many "reputable" news sources later pick up their stories. It's done on a regular basis.
I'd much rather read WND than, say, the New York Times. The Times has had a few rather serious problems with facts over the past few years.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

WND, National Enquirer... I don't see much difference... I only read the headlines of the NE,
I've regularly read WND for about 7 years and it has done nothing but go downhill.... the fringe of reality IMHO.

hiddentreasuredotws · Senior Member

Mahonri wrote:

WND, National Enquirer... I don't see much difference... I only read the headlines of the NE,
I've regularly read WND for about 7 years and it has done nothing but go downhill.... the fringe of reality IMHO.

Mainstream is little more than indoctirination.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

I'm sure thankful we have a gift that will help us recognize truth.

arbilad · Head Chef

Mahonri wrote:

WND, National Enquirer... I don't see much difference... I only read the headlines of the NE,
I've regularly read WND for about 7 years and it has done nothing but go downhill.... the fringe of reality IMHO.

Mahonri, do regular news sources regularly pick up and publish National Enquirer stories? I see a huge difference. I do agree with you that WND has gone downhill, but I feel that they have become too mainstream.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

I'm not so sure I would be implying that just because it appears "mainstream" media start covering the same or similar things as what WND has published is necessarily a compliment to WND...

It could easily be more a statement of how "mainstream" media is sloppy and doesn't do legwork themselves...

Or, it could simply mean that both are getting their information from the same source and WND gets their story w/ requisite slant out earlier and the "mainstream" takes a little more time to pursue journalistic integrity (yeah, right) to avoid obvious bias in their reporting.