"A human being has a natural desire to have more of a good thing than he needs." -- Mark Twain
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
I just tried to call my DH to ask him what he is referring to in this thread, but the man won't budge! He says if he gives any clues he'll give it away. Jason, Cat feels that you are going to kick yourself once you find out what he means and haven't guessed it first.
I think that, with the information given, you will only get the right answer by sheer chance. "What do you want" is an incredibly common phrase, both in fiction and in real life.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Cat, you act as if it's a reference that should be obvious to us all, if we just thought about it. But with no context, there is no way to guess other than by sheer chance. Thus, at least I personally won't be kicking myself because there is no way that I could have deduced it. I'm guessing that it has something to do with a body of knowledge that all or most of us share. But even that gives only a very weak clue. Really, the only way in which we are all similar is that we are members of the LDS church. That common trait is insufficient to start deducing from. It's not a famous catch phrase, such as "Do it now". If it's a reference from a recent conference talk, I'll consider it an interesting reference, but I won't be kicking myself for not getting it.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
This contains one of my favorite "What do you want" references.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Is the question that Mr. Morden used to represent the Shadows. The Shadows were essentially a race of invisible insects as old as the universe itself, that believed that significant advancements could not be had without conflict, war and strife. They stirred up the younger races to war one with another.
The Vorlons through their ambassador, Kosh, came in person, masked in encounter suits, asking the question,
"Who are you?"
The Vorlons, a race as old as the Shadows, balanced them, as a race of Order. They appear angelic and beneficient to those who behold them, but their gestalt tendency to blow up the planets harboring Shadow agents, proved them to be too puritanical for the younger races to endure.
In the end, Captain Sheridan and his rangers, who used Vorlon technology ended up confronting both of them with the appearance of a benevolent being known as Lorien, who was older than both races, and who promised to take them all beyond the rim, leaving the younger races to lead their own existence without the threat of having their planets destroyed...
Sheridan encountered Lorien when he nuked the Shadow homeworld, Zha'ha'dum, a world that was build around a great pit, and at the bottom of the abyss in which Sheridan fell, was where Lorien brought Sheridan back to life...
Lorien asks Sheridan repeatedly both the questions, "Who are you?" and "What do you want?" In this reflective moment, he notes that Sheridan (who has a piece of Kosh in him) is stuck between death and life. He is dead, for his heart has stopped, yet there is something that fights to keep him alive (Kosh). Lorien teaches Sheridan that he must not be afraid of death, that the whole war between the Vorlons and the Shadows is based upon this fear of death... of passing beyond the Rim... they've been trying so hard to avoid death, that they've created a hellish war.
Sheridan finally accepts that he must die, that though he has obligations and duties he is willing to accept the sacrifice for which he laid down his life... and in that moment, Lorien observes and asks... "It's easy to find something worth dying for... Do you have anything worth living for?"
In the darkness as it gathers he cries out the name of his true love, an alien Minbari woman of the name, "Delenn"! That is what brings him back to life.
Emporer Londo Molari of the Centauri Alliance was the most openly in league with the Shadows, though his motivations were always longing for the restoration of the grandeur of the Centauri Empire. The Shadows, and later their other agents, used the Centauri as instruments of war, to subjugate the weaker allied worlds, and when the Shadows left, the Centauri were left to their own devices, and slowly picked apart.
--Ray
PS> This is all from the brilliant and fantastic scifi series "Babylon 5". (Ironically written by an author who professes atheism or agnosticism, I can never keep the two seperate, though he's always very respectful of religious concepts and ideas and even of religious organizations. Heck in one part of the series a group of Catholic monks help save the day...)
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Nope, not kicking myself in the rear at all. Are you talking about Babylon 5? I know that it's some show that I've never watched. I would never have gotten the reference, and in principle I still haven't gotten the reference, because I don't know any of the plot that Ray outlined.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
In a nutshell: the former denies there is a god, the latter states one can't know if there is or isn't.
atheism = Doctrine that there is no god, disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or god. (literal translation from the Greek "godless") agnosticism = Belief that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. ("I ... invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of 'agnostic,' ... antithetic to the 'Gnostic' of Church history who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant." [T.H. Huxley, "Science and Christian Tradition," 1889])
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I saw Babylon Five but is has been so long that I can hardly remember anything other than the main overall story. I wish they would put it into syndication on the Sci Fi channel or something.
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
it's one of the series I still can watch, even after all these years. When it was on Teevee, it was always on really weird hours, because it was one of these shows that the networks didn't know what to do with, including Warner Brothers... It's a shame too, cuz it was written years before 9-11, but I find many of the stories almost psychic and at times uncomfortably truthful in how well they observe human nature and capture the reactions of people in the face of catastrophe.
I own all the seasons. And look forward to watching the series with my kids, perhaps when they turn 12 or so... cuz I think they present a lot of moral questions in very entertaining ways... and it's really about a bunch of people who want different things and how they manage to (or don't manage to get along) and how there are heroes at the human level... and how the show and its characters talk of freedom is remarkable.
Good stuff... If you haven't watched it, I suggest you at least watch through season 2 (season one was hit/miss, as the characters get a feel for the show)... Great for Netflix. I expect after season 2 you'll be hooked, and the rest of the seasons will fly by... (some argue the last season is also hit and miss, though I enjoyed it nonetheless).
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Oh yeah, and my wife likes it, because she's always had a thing for Bruce Boxleightner (Sheridan, who played the Scarecrow in the Scarecrow and Mrs. King, and was a lead in the embarrassingly forgettable disney scifi - Tron)
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
The show was one of the best written sci-fi serials. It suffered a bit when it got shuffled from network to network and studios took away more and more creative ownership from the guys who created it, but as you said Ray, it was a great examination of human nature. And that, in my mind, is the core mission of true sci-fi... to take the uncomfortable observations and examination of human nature and place it in a "safe" environment of fantasy - fiction (much like H.G. Welles did) so that people will look at that uncomfortable nature and consider it without feeling threatened.
(incidently, I cheered when Laura Ingalls got toasted by her own hubby when he went to visit Z'ha'dum)
So, how many people did Mr. Morden ask the question to, who was asked, what was the response to Morden, and was the request delivered on by Morden and his "associates"?
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Stargate makes me twitchy. It's just that bad. The chick with short blond hair, General or Major Carter or something, is really painfully bad. All of them are, really.
DH likes it. I've tried, I really have. I like the original movie well enough, but the series is just dreadful.
OH and the Daniel guy, with glasses? I look at him and all I can see is Todd from Saturday's Warrior. "I take some paper in my haaaaaaaaaaaaaand. . ."
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
Stargate has lots of explosions and the occassional eye candy. Everything a guy needs for entertainment!
And Ray, I loved Tron and still watch it. That was a cutting edge film at the time it came out. Must have watched it a gazillion times as a kid. My aunt and uncle had the VHS copy of it and everytime we went there we had to watch it.
Tron is watched pretty religiously by certain male members of my household.
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
Cat: Well I should go back and watch the episode, "Signs and Portents" (I think that the was the one...)... but let me see if I can recall off the top of my head.
I think he asked Delenn or went to, and she had a headache, or something, and a triangle appeared on her head... and she realized the Shadows were back... He went to G'kar and G'kar only wanted revenge. Londo of course, gave the answer the Shadows were looking for...
He went to visit with the Humans, and kept missing a chance to talk with Sheridan... I seem to recall at the end, Kosh stepped in, and told Morden that he could not have them. So he never got to ask the humans.
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Delenn... as you say, she sensed the darkness around him and told him to leave. G'Kar... he wanted revenge against the Centauri for the wrongs committed against the Narn Londo... power and influence within the Centauri power brokers Vir... to be there the day Morden's head was raised up on a pike so he (Vir) could wave at it Sheridan... Kosh warned Sheridan to not talk to Morden -- "they are not for you"
Results:
Delenn: he left her quarters G'Kar: In the end, the Narn got to orbital bomb Centauri Prime in the effort to free the Centauri from the Shadows and Drakh Londo: Orbital bombardment and total decimation of a Narn outpost that started the chain of events to where under Londo's influence, the Centauri Republic "put the Narn back in the dark ages"... Londo kept going down the spiral of servitude and enslavement to the Shadows as they continued to "help" him in his quest. Vir: As a gift to his loyal, honest, uncorruptable, and trustworthy friend, Emporer Londo had Morden executed and placed his head on a pike outside the imperial palace on Centauri Prime when Morden was captured during the freeing of Centauri Prime from the Shadows and Drakhs. Sheridan: no request, and no promise made, but it is hinted at that perhaps the Shadows made allies with other humans in similar fashion as they did with Londo... Vice President Clark definitely, and possibly even Bester or some other high ranking leader in the Psi Corps.
In every case, it is interesting to see that the "request" was kept and fulfilled, but that the long term consequences of asking something from the Shadows was never what the requestor anticipated.
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Ah, Randy, it is so nice to know that at least someone is honest enough to say they kind of kicked themself.
I agree with you that the last episode was really, really a disappointment. It seemed so contrived, and to some extent, hurried and even a little like everyone involved with writing and producing were tired.
My teenage daughter may agree with you on Avatar... interesting little show, but I'm not sure I would say it eclipses Babylon 5... maybe Stargate Atlantis and definitely Star Trek Enterprise and Firefly... but Babylon 5?
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Babylon 5 was WAY better than Stargate. Although I didn't follow it as closely as Cat, it was a very well written, thought-provoking series. One thing that Cat and I liked about it was the fact that it was one continuous story. Every episode was a continuation of the next. Unlike series' like Star Trek and often Stargate, they didn't wrap up every little problem at the end of each episode. They were careful to maintain continuity.
One thing that Cat and I liked about it was the fact that it was one continuous story. Every episode was a continuation of the next. Unlike series' like Star Trek and often Stargate, they didn't wrap up every little problem at the end of each episode. They were careful to maintain continuity.
The same is also true of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Perhaps that's why discussion of makes me think of the other. The writers of Avatar seem to be making fewer missteps than did the writers of Bablylon 5 (not that I hold that against B5--they were very ambitious). I have a feeling I'm going to be less disappointed in the conclusion of Avatar than I was with B5. When was the last time you saw a TV show where none of the heroes made an appearance during the entire episode? Even Babylon 5 never dared to do that. All of the heroes are flawed, and some of the villains have very positive attributes such as conscience, honor, and even nobility. Rayb, you might find it worthwhile to check out. It's in its third season now (the last season of the story), but they are re-running a lot of episodes from previous seasons. My daughter and I have had to play catch-up because we discovered this show late, and have watched them out of order, but are interested in getting the first two seasons on DVD.
Avatar may not have to deal with as much complexity of character development as B5 because of the audience it is aimed at... kids from about 8 - 14 or so. With few exceptions, the characters are children or teens, and most of the adult characters are two-dimensional in comparison. B5 is all about 3D adult characters, their flaws, interactions, internal and external conflicts, and consequences for doing or not doing.
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Well maybe, but when characters deal with isolation, death, violence, genocide, rejection, love, self-denial, conscience, sacrifice, selfishness, jealousy, priorities, courage, cowardice, mixed signals, ambition, ingenuity, suffering, fun, and responsibility, I guess I really don't care how old or young they are.
Nickelodeon may have aimed it at 8-to-14-year-olds, but the actual writers and creators obviously decided not to talk down to their audience. Good for them, for going beyond the call of duty. Maybe that's the reason their actual fan base is far beyond the 8-to-14-year-old group.
