I thought this was interesting about the way the classroom is evolving. Are we teaching our children to discipline and prepare themselves for this sort of life? How do we go about doing it? Any thoughts? Maybe we should reward the kids who look off their neighbor's papers. :)
[youtube=http://youtube.com/watch?v=dGCJ46vyR9o]
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Looking off their neighbor's papers sher ain't gonna work.
I get a sort of laziness/hopelessness overtone to the clip. (Yes, coco clickey on youtube ) Like they are trying to rationalize the hours spent on cellphones and the Internet... everyone does it, so it's acceptable. And I have a problem with the statement that they did not create the problems. We *all* can say that, can't we? This bunch doesn't look like they're gonna fix 'em, either!
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
First off, that was the most annoying camera work I've ever seen.
The substance of the show, which is that technology is completely changing education, is a good message. But I don't think it's changing it in totally unprecedented ways. The students had those notes about how they multi-task and use their computers to dink around and not pay attention. Well, in my generation (wow that sounds old), we multi-tasked with pencil and paper. I remember writing and receiving four-page handwritten notes, folded as intricately as origami. How is that more or less distracting than reading Facebook during a lecture? Paying attention means the same thing before computers as after computers. Computers just give you new ways to not pay attention.
And everyone deals with 115-student classes and teachers who don't your name. No one can afford the tuition to have freshmen general ed classes only be 15 students.
It would be interesting to find out if the students who only read 8 books and 2300 webpages per year would read significantly more books if there weren't webpages to read. I read incessantly, but I had roommates at college who only read what they absolutely had to, and that was in the days before widespread internet. The watched tv instead. Maybe when I was in college, they would have said students only read 8 books per year, and watch 2300 hours of tv.
But I liked that point about spending $100 on textbooks you never read. I had a professor who told us he designated a textbook only because they said he had to, but we weren't going to use it. I had stupidly taken the shrink wrap off, so I couldn't even return it. And I really could have used that money! Most of my textbooks were useful, though.
Service, too. (aka slave labor) We're picking up hundreds of wormy apples at Grandma's house later today, much to their consternation, cuz they're "on vacation"! mwahaaahaa...
If I hear some complaining that someone or something besides themselves "did something" to them or caused them some anguish, I try to point out that they are bigger than anything outside themselves. I try to read books to them that have a good example of this - someone went through some terrible ordeal and came out stronger and better in the end... we talk about it and if that could really happen... if it could happen to us...
I'm also quick to point out that there are, at any given time, literally thousands (maybe I say millions) of kids their own age who would trade places with them in a heartbeat.
I try to tell them it's not about hyperconsumption. That does not bring real happiness. People are what matters. When you help people, then you begin to learn what happiness is. Just being friendly to people who are jerks at school. My 11 yo told me some girl was being rude to her and she pretended not to hear her, and then turned toward her and blurted out, "Oh, I really like your necklace!" pretending she just noticed she was there. The girl was like I said, "Excellent!" I try to explain *why* some kids could be taking on destructive or apathetic or lazy attitudes and how we don't want to be that way - we are blessed with the saving gospel of Jesus Christ and we have great things to accomplish in this life... and we will!
Visiting a nursing home to sing some songs for people (and my going with them if it's a Primary activity or something I think conveys to them I think this is worthwhile as well) or visiting children in a hospital. Seeing someone their own age with a shaved head and 42 stitches across their scalp can sort of jerk them back from their PSP world. The contrast speaks to them. I don't think service enters the minds of those in the youtube clip much.
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
In response to the video: It didn't have the effect on me the film-makers intended. Probably because I have heard so many of those little factoids before--not original--and because I would be ecstatic if those were the only "problems" I had to face. I don't believe that any of those students were feeling any angst about the situation. They were just filling an assignment. If they cared, they would get the *beep* off the laptop and pay attention in class, or give up the extra 2 hours on facebook to get more sleep, or get better grades to qualify for scholarships. It like "Look how sad I am, I don't bother to pay attention in class and I spend excessive amounts of time doing stupid non-productive things." Yea....so?
In response to the general question about education: It's the same as ever. I had it different than my parents. My son has it different than I did. *insert some monkey singing about the circle of life here...*
Jen(I think) said it. We had distractions too. I inherited problems that I didn't cause. My kids will too. Welcome to the planet.
The biggest difference I see is that my kid is competing with China; the kids who earn self-repect and love by doing well in school. In my day, these kids weren't taking jobs from American companies, now they are. That is why my son has 3 hours of homework every night when I never did a single page outside the classroom and very little in the classroom.
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
I really wasn't sure what the point of the video was... were they advocating anything?
I thought it was interesting to see what is distracting kids today, as opposed to how it used to be... I didn't really buy into the whole "I'm a victim" sort of nonsense.
I also thought it was interesting because I currently am working a job in which I spend much of my time surfing for answers on Google, to figure out how to debug and run cantankerous server systems because no one here has much expertise. It occurred to me this might be exactly what everyone does in the future... no experts, just searching the web for someone who might could help give an answer...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I appreciated the comment about a lot of things in education not applying to real life. That's a perspective I'm trying to change as an educator. The school where I teach is one of two applied learning centers in the district. Our guiding approach to education is that it must be rigorous and relevant. No worksheets. Lots of interdisciplinary approaches to real-life issues. Even for Kindergarten. When math is a bunch of abstract and meaningless classroom exercises, I don't care about it, and I don't expect my students to care. Math suddenly becomes important and engaging when my kids realize it's a tool they must be able to understand and use proficiently to solve everyday problems. That's Roper's mantra for changing the world: Rigorous and relevant.
FWIW, I really liked the way the clip was directed and shot. I think it showed a lot of creativity for a student production working with little or no budget and experience.
-- Edited by Roper at 22:55, 2007-10-26
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
I have nothing to say. If I did say something, it would take pages and pages.
It is simply the same cumulative attitude that I see going on in my Scouts... apathy, overindulgence, overscheduled, lack of prioritization, feelings of entitlement, entertain me...
It is as much a plague as other things in our society...
I think it had the pathos one would expect from this sort of production, but what is the point of the pathos? It resolves nothing, and it motivates to do nothing. AND I also hated the jerky filmography too.
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Also, I find it a lot easier to care about a class when the instructor does. If all he does is show up, turn on power point slides and then have us email homework problems he never even works himself to his TA for grading, I'm inclined to be lazy and apathetic. Especially about his $100+ textbook he made me buy so the college can get kickbacks from the textbook company or something.
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"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head." --Marge Simpson
While I see the points about students complaining and how they should just study and suck it up, it does present what i think is a problem with higher education.
I think for many fields expertise comes from work within a field, or experience that comes at the workplace. A lot of what you study in college is pointless. Academics rationalize this waste by suggesting that you're not actually supposed to learn any "useful" skills in school, but learn the process of learning.
But at the same time, (and what this video brings up) the process of learning is nothing like sitting in a mob of people listening to some boring lecturer go through a text book.
In fact, if students could learn to actually read and work problems in textbooks without compulsion, why would they need lecturers or professors in the first place?
One of the major complaints I had in my Masters/Bachelors level engineering classes was that the teachers often didn't teach the students in a way that encouraged mastery of the subjects they were teaching. We had some really bad lecturers for example who did decent research and had tenure and didn't bother with attempting to teach, other than going over the homework assigned the day prior.
There are plenty of rationalizations for this sort of thing, or for why it doesn't work, but it does lead me to wonder if college degrees really matter, especially for some subjects.
In computer science for example, I started programming in Pascal. Learned C. and by the time I got out, both were being dumped for C++, and now it appears even that's obsolete. In a realm where technology is renovated every other year, it is difficult to learn how to keep oneself current, let alone master the technologies required to actually do a job in the latest technology. Much of this technology is proprietary, and not available to students. And for those whom are lucky enough to go to a school sponsored by the higher tech firms, you might be guaranteed a job for a couple years, but then become obsolete quickly. It's a tough quandry to stay current.
Then there are computing/physical theories that threaten to make all the old models of programming obsolete like quantum computing... in which the whole concept of 1's and 0's (boolean) logic no longer applies.
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
They forgot to mention the daily crossword puzzle and sudoku. That's what I do in class....while taking notes of course. I've gotten so used to multi-tasking that I actually take better notes and pay more attention while I am doing the puzzles. They keep me awake and alert.
I personally find it very hard to learn when a teacher doesn't seem to want the students to learn. For instance, one of my teachers was pleased as a plum the day he handed back our tests and the highest grade was an 82/100. Sure he grades on a curve so my 48% was a C, but that doesn't help the fact that by working out homework problems and the sample exam and truly understanding them got me a C on the exam. After working the homework problems I was able to do the sample exam with no problem, and then to get a 48% on the test...that's a little ridiculous. The good teachers try to figure out why the averages are so low and what they can do to help us learn, or sometimes they just tell us we need to do better. This teacher just didn't care.
What's also hard being an engineer is that they have to teach us so much stuff, but really, we'll only be using a little bit of it, and most of the other stuff we can just look up on charts. The teachers at my school are all working on their research, and love it, so they are trying to teach a class of engineers how to research, when about 95% (if not more) are just in school to get a job and make money. I know I've learned way more about engineering by working with engineers than by taking classes.
Granted, I also know how to work harder than all of the college drop-outs at work.
Yeah...my life is pretty much school, work, eat, sleep. And I try to squeeze as much MegaMatt time in as I can, but his life is about the same, and his work is trying to flip the first two.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
Who's forcing these kids to spend 3 1/2 hours a day online, or 2 1/2 hours a day listening to music, or reading 2300 web pages a year verses 8 books a year or MY personal favorite, 3 hours a day or whatever it was, talking on a cell phone?
No, they didn't create the problem, but they have no "problem" contributing to it. I fail to see the purpose of this video. Are we supposed to feel "sorry" for them?
And, unfortunately there are good and bad teachers out there. They were there when I was in college and will still be there when my kids go to college. And, you pay bookoo bucks for your "higher" education too.
You probably don't want to hear what hubby has to say about the quality of workers the colleges are putting out, that end up under his supervision...
Nurses that don't want to deal with patients??? " Uhhhh, exactly why is it that you went to nursing school, then???" Sad, sad sad...
I have an kind of "surrogate uncle" that is a head-hunter... he says that across the board it is hard to find employees that want to work... it's true that they all want a job... but they want biggggg salaries to start and they don't really want to have to "work"...
I can imagine that some go into nursing because they have heard that there is big money to be made. Nurses make pretty good money. It's like before so many internet companies went under, everyone wanted to work in computers. Even if they hated computers. They just wanted to become "millionaires", like all the other paper millionaires.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
That's what I was thinking too Arbilad. There's lot's of people who want to be doctors too, because of the money, but don't have the "patience" for patients.
I imagine that the money for doctors isn't quite as good as it was, because of the ruinous malpractice premiums that they pay.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Yeah, just ask my BIL. It's astonishing what he pays out for malpractice insurance. But, there are still people who still have the mentality going into college that doctors make lot's of money. Some do, but it takes YEARS for alot of them to get to that point. I have a nephew who is in medical school and he is going to owe well over 100k in student loans by the time he's done.
sorry ray... he's got his hands full of recent college graduates that want that same deal, and have LOTS less going for them than you do... he owes them his energy... just ask them!
Hubby loves his patients... if he never saw another piece of paperwork he'd be happy but he joyfully prays for each patient... He works a lot with hospice and it is hard on the families, many timed they have no concept of Heaven, or a loving return to family that has already passed on... so he also cares for the the suffering family members too. He makes a difference and that is why he is a nurse
We could make more money by going to another area/facility... but he like the company he works for, cause they are faith and service oriented...
It does seem that many recent graduates are looking for an easy way to slide into a Director of Nursing slot... with no experience... Hubby doesn't ever want to do that job cause it means no patient load... He has talked about teaching when he gets to the point that he can't work in day to day care...
Let us know when you have your MSN (Masters/Nursing) and I will get my "Unc" on it... ASAP... They need a new one where hubby works and he keeps turning it down.
umm....having known plenty of roommates/friends in nursing school, you HAVE to be able to work hard to get through it! I sure know I could do a 10-15 page report the night before a clinical, and you can't get the information until the night before. They have to work hard and study a LOT.
But maybe I just associate with hard workers. I do know it drives me crazy how many people DON'T work hard every day. I see so many people that are already very behind in their work, but it doesn't bother them to spend an hour and a half paid talking about movies, etc. I feel bad enough if I pull out a text book while waiting for something to do at work because unfortunately I rely on a person who works slowly to get me work that I get done quickly. Aggravating. And I don't even want to be a PE by the time I'm 27! I just want to graduate and have babies! But that doesn't mean I'm going to give whatever I'm doing half the effort.
I think it's people's own faults if they are lazy. The only excuse I can really make for being lazy is if my brain hurts to hard do to anything else because I've been studying so hard. Other than that, I'm just plain lazy and can't really complain about not having enough time.
I can see why an into to cultural anthropology class would create something like this, but I don't think it really applies to upper division students, or students who really care. Unfortunately college has become something that pretty much everyone is expected to go to. Many kids go because their parents are paying for it, and they could really care less about education.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
) Like they are trying to rationalize the hours spent on cellphones and the Internet... everyone does it, so it's acceptable. And I have a problem with the statement that they did not create the problems. We *all* can say that, can't we? This bunch doesn't look like they're gonna fix 'em, either!
I said, "Excellent!" I try to explain *why* some kids could be taking on destructive or apathetic or lazy attitudes and how we don't want to be that way - we are blessed with the saving gospel of Jesus Christ and we have great things to accomplish in this life... and we will!
