Gah!

hiccups · Future Queen in Zion

Gah!

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

Balderdash!

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

That's a truckload of stupid if I ever saw one.

She didn't write it in the books, therefore it is not so. I will not subscribe to that.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Hey, Gandalf was, so why not Dumbledore...

Maybe they were "friends"...

But, then again, there is one way of getting yer kids to not want to be too big into the evils of literary wizardry and witchcraft...

arbilad · Head Chef

I read that and I am just sickened. I will never read any future books of Rowlings.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Nice way to ruin a great series.

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

I fail to see why that ruins the series.

nitasmile · Senior Member

I can see how you feel disappointed but like Bok said, to me it shouldn't ruin the series. It shouldn't discredit all the other good you've enjoyed from her books.

When I learned the guy who played Doogie Hooser was gay in real life, I felt disappointed and perhaps that some of the romantic movies he was in (as an adult) were not as sincere. Still his acting was good and the movies are good- they are fiction, he was playing a role. Likewise, I felt that way when I learned this info about the man who played the dad on the Brady Bunch. I felt annoyed when society implied one of the telletubbies was gay.

I haven't read the books yet. But if this info isn't "written" in to the character and if there isn't foreshadowing of that info, I do wonder at the relevance of Rowlings adding that info after the books have been published. I don't grasp why she wanted to make sexual orientatin a part of her books, esp w/how controversial that info is. In other books that children enjoy, the authors don't go on to say that "so and so went on to be a heterosexual person, etc'' So I don't know why she felt it was important to add this info at this time.

But hopefully you can still enjoy and appreciate all of her other good writing.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

nitasmile wrote:

So I don't know why she felt it was important to add this info at this time.

Probably because she has made millions of bucks off these books (and movies) and is now trying to justify it by creating and supporting a cause. rolleyes

After all, the book series is over how else is she going to make headlines now?

Did anyone notice she also said she hopes through the books that people will learn to question authority?

You're right Jen, it is a truckload of stupid. Well put.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Kids don't need a childhood filled with innocence anymore do they?

LoudmouthMormon · Profuse Pontificator

This is the risk you run, by putting trust in the arm of flesh. Don't go looking to fiction writers to provide heroes for your kids. For that matter, use this example to teach children the truth about heroes. Everybody wants to be like the perfect guy, because wanting is easy, and nobody is mad at you when you don't measure up. In reality, we have to choose who we will be, and then fight for it.

LM

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

We just talked about heroes in Primary class yesterday. We were talking about how fictional people or "famous" people may not always be the best choice of someone you want to be like. One girl piped up, "Yeah, like Hannah Montana!" I was like, "Yessssss!"

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

salesortonscom wrote:

Kids don't need a childhood filled with innocence anymore do they?

That is why bok.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I'm really disappointed with JK. Dumbledore never saw fit to make a big deal about it, so why should she?

This sort of politico nonsense really tarnishes the HP experience for me, and distracts from the heart-warming core of the series.

--Ray

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

I might wish it otherwise, but the sad truth is that children don't have the luxury of an innocent childhood anymore. I've had to teach my kids what a homosexual is -- I'd rather have them hear it from me than learn it at school.

I'm really disappointed with JK. Dumbledore never saw fit to make a big deal about it, so why should she?

Don't forget, Dumbledore is an imaginary figure. And she didn't make a big deal about it in the books--which is what matters to me. My kids can still read the series and enjoy it just as much as they did before I knew that one of the characters was a closet homosexual.

It's irrelevant to me what D's sexual orientation purportedly was. There is no evidence of it in the books. If you go back through and read the series and afterward say, "Ah.... now I can see that the signs were there all along that D is gay", fine. But if you can't, who's to say she isn't just making it up?

Wait. She made it all up.

-- Edited by bokbadok at 13:07, 2007-10-22

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Yay for me, as I've never read any of the books (I think I read the first two chapters of book 1...)!

Of course, on the plus side... his condition could be explained by the stating the obvious this other evil wizard-to-be guy molested and abused him when Dumbledore was at a vulnerable time in his teen years... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304016,00.html

I'm thinking we need to have Chuck Norris go and introduce JK Rowling to the reason he has to have a concealed weapon permit for all 50 states just for wearing cowboy boots...

p.s. What's the last thing a Bludger sees when it notices Chuck Norris on the other side of a Quidditch pitch? The blur of his foot just before the roundhouse kick strikes it... biggrin

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Isn't it the LDS stand that as long as he isn't *practicing* we're okay?

arbilad · Head Chef

My beef with this is, whether or not she wrote it in the books, my kid will find out eventually. Unless I shut him off from all contact with humanity, he will find out about it. It will inevitably affect his perception of the books when he finds out. He already knows what gays are (like Bok, I decided to explain it to him myself rather than have the world explain it to him), but I'm sure that we will have another discussion on the topic when he finds out. Why should a 12 year old have to cope with the issue of the orientation of an imaginary figure?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Just so long as Hagrid's not gay.

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

What's to cope with? Homosexuals happen.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I just don't like anything overly contrived... and I hate how the media's made a huge deal out of it... including the applause... why should it matter one way or another?

--Ray

Janey · Senior Member

Yeah, I don't see where Dumbledore's sexual orientation matters to the series at all. I wish she hadn't mentioned it. It's as irrelevant as Professor McGonagall's shoe size. Maybe by the time Mr. Boo is old enough to read the series, the fact will be faded and obscure.

Perhaps when talking to your kids about it, you stress the fact that he was celibate for the last 50 years of his life. Of course, then you have to explain what celibate means. Ick.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

What, I have to explain to my kids that Dumbledore became a Catholic Priest?

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

A thought just occurred to me. Would those of you who are disgusted at this revelation feel differently if she had announced that Filch were gay? Do the positive or negative feelings you have for the character affect how you react to this little revelation?

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Filch obviously had a thing for Mrs. Norris... "his" cat was obviously a witch who, in similar fashion to Harry's god-father, was one of those folks who liked to change into an animal. As Filch had a bad case of stalking her and the retraining orders hadn't worked, she simply made the change permanent...

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

bokbadok wrote:

A thought just occurred to me. Would those of you who are disgusted at this revelation feel differently if she had announced that Filch were gay? Do the positive or negative feelings you have for the character affect how you react to this little revelation?

I don't think she needed to announce anyone was gay!

No Cat, I think Mrs. Norris is a magic trick gone bad. Filch was demonstrating a spell to his next door neighbor whom he secretly admired, but didn't have the guts to say anything and then he couldn't figure out how to change her back so now he is committed to taking care of her for the rest of her life, or his life, whichever comes first. But, he is secretly happy because he gets to have her all to himself.

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

People who haven't read the books shouldn't speculate about them.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Poncho has read them...

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I hear Ron Weasley has a secret fettish for garden nomes....

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

If poncho has read them, then how come she didn't know that Filch is a squib?

beefche · Profuse Pontificator

I think JK is trying to keep up the publicity and jump on the PC wagon. There's nothing in the books to suggest anyone is gay. So I don't see what the uproar is all about. Even if kids hear about him being gay, I don't think it would be that big of a deal (this is coming from a no-kid lady). Just because the author said he's gay, his actions in the book do not support that. Now if she had written things to show how that could be.....

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Here's why it bothers me.

My brother who is claiming to be gay, now announces this to the whole family in an attempt to mock anyone that "liked" the series... I've been ambushed by this all the time... "Well you know, he's gay."

WHo the crap cares? Well only the people who think you care. It's just annoying.

The whole need to pair up all the characters in books is annoying. Heck. I found the epilog of book 7 annoying for that reason.

And why should it garner applause? Is there some reason that having a gay character in your literature makes it more praiseworthy?

Every series that is sophisticated nowadays "needs" a gay character in it. Why is that?

--Ray

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I'm just dissapointed that he wasn't flamboyantly gay like the Nathan Lane character from The Birdcage. I think Dumbledore should have been listening to show tunes in his office and been wearing a sequened robe. I wonder if the late Richard Harris would have altered his portrayal of Dumbledore for the movies if he had known.

Dyany · Senior Member

I agree with Bok on this...big surprise there...though I'm disappointed with Ms. Rowling's announcement and the reasoning behind it, the fact is, there ARE people out there suffering with SSA. They are children of God too and are completely equal to any one of us. The bad thing is when they choose to live that lifestyle, same as the bad thing for a 'straight' person would be to become a prostitute or decide to live with someone outside of marriage. Whether or not Dumbledore had those feelings is irrelevant; did he ACT on them? No? Then he was still a good guy. Frankly, with how homosexuality is touted these days, I have no doubt that my children will run into a situation where someone close to them 'comes out' -- I want them to be able to deal with it in a productive way and be able to separate the sinner from the sin.

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

bokbadok wrote:

If poncho has read them, then how come she didn't know that Filch is a squib?

I have read some of them. I just asked my daughter where it is mentioned that Filch is a squib, and she said she thinks they said something about it briefly in the second book (which I did read) and it is mentioned briefly in the 5th book.
I think I vaguely remember reading that. It's not like Filch is a main character or anything.
Sheesh. rolleyes

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Dynie, excuse me for being a bit annoyed, but please explain How the revelation that Dumbledore's gay help anyone who's "suffering from SSA"?

Most people who call themselves gay consider "suffering from SSA" an very offensive thing to say, cuz they're not suffering... they're comfortable with it, and if you don't believe it, just wait a few minutes and they'll remind you.

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

Bok, I would have been very upset if she had named any character as gay, even Stanley Shunpike. It's the throwing of the issue in people's face that is offensive. I would also be upset if Rowling decided to state that most of the male students at Hogwarts enjoy playing with their wands too much, if you catch my drift. What I deeply resent is the efforts to make evil seem normal or even good.
You can protest that maybe Dumbledore was celibate, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make about that. First, just as the books are entirely silent on the subject of Dumbledore's orientation, they mention absolutely nothing about whether he is celibate or not. Maybe Dumbledore went on "dates" all the time. There is no evidence one way or another. Second, and most important, when someone defines themselves by the label "homosexual" they are beyond just suffering from SSA. Whether or not they are celibate, they have bought into a mindset that is actively harmful. Someone suffering from a predilection towards alcoholism shouldn't call themselves an alcoholic unless they have actually had a problem with alcohol consumption. A temptation shouldn't define you.

Dyany · Senior Member

Ah, but a temptation oftentimes DOES define you. A recovering alcoholic is still a recovering alcoholic even if they haven't touched a drop of alcohol in 40 years. And I beg to argue the idea that 'when someone defines themselves by the label "homosexual" they are beyond just suffering from SSA'. I think in many cases you are right, however, society today will label EVERYONE suffering from SSA as 'homosexual' whether they are actively pursuing the lifestyle or not.

And Ray, I didn't say that Dumbledore being 'gay' would help someone suffering from SSA. I'm saying that IF I DEALT WITH THE SITUATION APPROPRIATELY, it would help my children understand better how to accept someone dealing with SSA.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Not that it matters to this discussion... But I was curious so I asked members of my own family, what they thought... Both Son2 (17) and Daughter (20) feel that the revelation makes little difference in the story... but... they wish Ms. Rowling had kept this little rumor (I laughed cause Daughter called it "gossip"...

) to herself... they both feel it changes the way they would view the character now in a re-read... It doesn't ruin the story... but it does taint it for them, and for that reason they wish she didn't feel the need to "help" them to see the character better/different/clearer... whatever her motivation.

In the same way that hey didn't care for the movies much because they both like their own imaginary versions of the characters better... I think this may be more a feeling of over defining a character for your audience in their minds...

I haven't read the books, because they are not my cup o'te... Hubby read just enough to make a decision about whether we wanted the kids to read them or not, since they were all MUCH younger when the books got started... He didn't care for her writing style... at all... At this point all of my kids and most of my adopted have read them... But I thought it interesting that Daughter and a few others in my clan) wondered if she would be able to re-read the series in any event cause like ray... she didn't care for all the pairing at the end... She dislikes over-finishing a story as well... this latest revelation was more like the final nail, for her.............

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Second, and most important, when someone defines themselves by the label "homosexual" they are beyond just suffering from SSA.
This is partly what I find so amusing about the uproar over this announcement. Dumbledore did NOT define himself as gay. So unless and until his character actively does that in the context of the stories (which would be hard to do now that he is dead, btw), it's irrelevant to the story.

I'm not arguing about the politics of the gay rights movement. I agree that it's tiresome that the "gay" card keeps getting played everywhere, and how the media trumpets it everywhere as if it's such a huge important thing that a fictional character has been declared, after his death, to be gay... I say, Big Deal.

I tried to get upset about it. I really did.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

[edit some stuff out... just cuz...]

I do wonder, if she'd made the character clearly gay from the beginning just how popular would be her books? Would they have made her a buttload of money? It's easy now to spring it all on people. Heck, Dumbledore's brother is into beastiality, too, right? Cuz he loves goats? Oh it's funny how they talk about the goats, but I'm sure there's something sexual there too, and in ten years when that's in vogue, she'll no doubt drag that out too and confess that too...

That's why on Bountiful we have our Bountiful cheer...

HOORAY FOR SIN!!!

--Ray

PS> I am curious what would be a "big deal", though...

-- Edited by rayb at 22:27, 2007-10-22

-- Edited by rayb at 00:35, 2007-10-23

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Man, we have a family website there too but it's mainly pictures of babies and recipes...

I've never read the books (I see the movies) and now I really don't care if I ever do. It's almost like Rowling is saying, "HA! Gotcha! You're trapped into liking him and now what can you do?"

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Poncho29 wrote:

bokbadok wrote:

If poncho has read them, then how come she didn't know that Filch is a squib?

I have read some of them. I just asked my daughter where it is mentioned that Filch is a squib, and she said she thinks they said something about it briefly in the second book (which I did read) and it is mentioned briefly in the 5th book.
I think I vaguely remember reading that. It's not like Filch is a main character or anything.
Sheesh.

Wow Filch is a squid! Explains his sour disposition! He must have gone to the same acting school as Squidward.

Yay for equal rights for squids! They too are a discriminated against minority that need special protection against the excesses of the majority.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I wonder if he lived in that special gated community that Squidward moved to and then went crazy in with the leaf blower?

Hoss Cartwright · Senior Member

There are some parents who were a little reticent to let their children read the series because of the witchcraft aspects. There are probably a few who felt "well, I guess it's better that he's reading that than playing video games all the time." Now, some of these parents will likely not permit further reading of the series.

One thing that can be said about the series is that it encouraged non-readers to read, which was a good thing.

This extraneous, and completely unnecessary, pronouncement by Rowling could slow that effect.