It's possible that I'm just really poor right now and it's affecting me negatively but I'm sick of this.
I don't want to keep up anymore. I can't stand driving by the mega-mansions, I'm sick of driving the only mediocre car in the neighborhood.
I think it really hit home when, after spending the last 8 months and every penny I possess on an adequate remodel of the house (adequate meaning the budget model,) and then I go to the 'twenty-somethings with no kids' new mansion with imported tile and granite and crown mouldings and top of the line Mac Lab.
I do have a home theatre - the smallest "big Screen" you can buy (the fat, out of date model) and still call it a big screen; and a gently used speaker system we could only afford because the speakers are huge and no one wants such hideous things in their house.
And we love it.
Then we go to the newlyweds up the street and wander through their brand new custom house with huge-screen tv and start to feel like we live in the wrong neighborhood.
It's everywhere!! I feel like I'm drowning in an ocean of money, none of it mine.
i keep telling myself that it doesn't matter, and I believe that, but everytime a new family in the ward spends a month in Europe or Belize, or drives by in their brand new $50,000 truck while I'm climbing into my $1000 truck we got a government auction, I get irked!
Am I just green with envy? Am I just stressed from digging pennies out of the couch to pay for my schooling or some MDF cabinetry?
I know that when I look at my home and possesions, I am content. We live better than so many. But I feel like others must be wondering how we live in such a hovel, because how can they came from their pristine, top of the line homes and not think mine is pathetic??
Am I irked because they have it soooo much better or because I know how many people are suffering and they are dumping money into gas-guzzling cars??
I have always lived on the edge of the "better" neighborhood - mostly for educations sake - but I don't want it anymore. I'm irritated with feeling like I won't be an effective leader in YW because I don't have the cool stuff - they don't want to ride in my car when we go to activities - they don't want to hang out in my mediocre kitchen. I don't have a boat. I don't have a playstation.
But mostly, I don't want to feel like money matters at all.
But, does it?? How will it effect my son in High School?? At what point do you become the 'weird' kid who doesn't eat white bread and has to walk (the 2 blocks) to school instead of driving his new truck or convertable like the rest of them?
And, the most disturbing question of all, if I had the money---would I be the same way?
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
Well, I'd reckon if greed or envy were at the root of the distress, you'd never be satisfied. Someone *always* has more or better stuff. So if you're into comparison, it's a losing game.
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
Ros, you have to stop comparing your possessions to those that others have. It is a vicious cycle. They may have nice things but at what cost? Credit headaches perhaps. Even if they are flush with cash they have their own challenges and problems that could make you shrink in fear.
If it makes you feel any better I can tell you about my house. It was originally my grandparents house. The last remodel was done in the early 70s. Still the original shag carpet that is worn out. Same old creaky cabinents from over 30 years ago. Some old linoleum. The furniture is stuff we picked up from my wife's sister for cheap when they upgraded. The kids sleep on bunkbeds we either got for free that I had to do some work to or that we picked up for dirt cheap from another relative. We've repainted some of the rooms as time and money permit. We drive the plain jane bare bones Dodge Caravan with human powered locks and windows (we power them). My friend's have houses that look like palaces compared to ours and drive new SUVs with entertainment systems but we really don't care and neither do our kids. My wife bought my daughters shoes at a yard sale the other day.
First off. If it works, is clean, and maintained then it does the job. Most kids walk to school or get dropped off. Those in high school that have a car usually have an older one that isn't the new stuff anyway. It may not seem like that in your neighborhood but the rest of the U.S. doesn't live like that. Your home and possessions would make you seem like royalty in many countries. Your kids will not remember these things later. They will remember the warmth and love they felt in your home.
I know a couple where the husband is in a professional position and makes great money yet they are always telling me they are on the verge of not making it. They have new cars that they had to get. A new/bigger house they had to have. A new motorcycle they had to have. Now mom is looking for a job to help pay for all that. This guy makes more than twice as much as I do. Do you think their kids really care about all that stuff or do you think they will care when mom isn't around because they have to pay for stuff.
You have to develope a mindset where you just don't care. You have to realize that stuff will not make you any happier because no matter what you have or how much there is always someone with more stuff or nicer stuff. Just getting stuff because someone else has it won't make you happy because it isn't filling. The instant gratification is never fullfilling.
I remember when my wife and I bought our first car together. It was small and simple but safe. It was what we could afford and we worked to pay it off early. Eventually with three kids we had to upgrade. It was sad the day we sold that car. Why, because we worked at it together. It wasn't just a spur of the moment, keeping up with the Jonses purchase that we replaced every couple years to have the newest thing. It was because we had a history with it. A history of bringing our babies home form the hospital or driving to the beach for a family outing. It was a history of making that payment and getting it paid off early together and celebrating. It has been a few years but my wife and I still talk about how great that little car was even though it had no special features, was underpowered, had arm crank windows, etc. Minivan is car number 2 in our marriage. We're going on 15 years of marriage now. I have relatives who have had a parking lot worth of cars in that time. One car was just a replacement for the last car. No memories. They can't even remember all of them or when they had them.
Memories are the only things we can take with us. They are what we will look back on in our later years and what we cling to for comfort in difficult times. New kitchens, styles, and toys come and go.
That's good, sales. The little green envy still likes to creep in, though... It's really an exercise sometimes to get your mind where it should be and remember the important stuff.
Another thing we like to do is talk about stories from our own high school days with our kids. Such as, "You know what happened to MY 'voted most popular' kid?" Or, talk about the kid who worked on a farm with 10 other siblings and had all DI clothes and is now very successful and happy.... stuff like that.
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
I'm just glad my stuff is payed for. I'll take "old" stuff that's payed for over fancy stuff that has me buried in debt. I'll bet those 20-somethings are financed to their eyeballs.
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
I can't imagine trying to sleep at night with all of that hanging over my head.
The old shag carpet and old cabinents has other advantages. If the kids spill on it and you can't bring it back to exactly looking new it's OK. You're less likely to engage in child abuse when you find the old half eaten apple under the back seat of the older car than the new sparkling car too! It's easier to raise kids when you aren't trying to perserve a museum or things.
It may not seem like that in your neighborhood but the rest of the U.S. doesn't live like that. Your home and possessions would make you seem like royalty in many countries.
This is the key. We choose where we live by rating the public schools. And the best public schools, in my experience, have been in upper-class neighborhoods. They just have more resources-it's a fact.
So we eek out a living in these neighborhoods to take advantage of the best schools...but I am starting to think I would rather take "the rest of the country" and make up for the education another way.
I'm sick of being surrounded by such wastefulness.
It is true, however, being debt free is a blessing that I would never--not for all the shiny granite countertops in the world--give up.
I think my real problem is an excess of paint fumes....
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
If the kids spill on it and you can't bring it back to exactly looking new it's OK. You're less likely to engage in child abuse when you find the old half eaten apple under the back seat of the older car than the new sparkling car too! It's easier to raise kids when you aren't trying to perserve a museum or things.
I put all this $$ and work into the new stuff and now I have anxiety about damaging it.
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
Ros, it can be frustrating, but I bet a number of those people with all that are in debt, deep.
I have worked in banking and while auditing loans I have been stunned when I see peoples' incomes and yet needing loans. I saw one guy making $1.1 million a year and having to take out a loan for $500k for a house. Another making $850k a year and the $425k home was not good enough and took out a loan to pay for a $2.7 million home. People with high incomes and yet have no assets. It is insane.
I too wish I had some of the toys and neat things, kind of a bummer sometimes, but our only debt is the house, student loans, and one car.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
Ros wrote: This is the key. We choose where we live by rating the public schools. And the best public schools, in my experience, have been in upper-class neighborhoods. They just have more resources-it's a fact.
So we eek out a living in these neighborhoods to take advantage of the best schools...but I am starting to think I would rather take "the rest of the country" and make up for the education another way.
It depends. We live in a really, really poor area but the schools do relatively well here on testing and on how much money they have. My children's school district gets money from the Federal Government and state though because of the Military population and Indian reservation that are served by the district. The area is rural farm towns made up of mostly Spanish speaking tansient workers.
I guess if I wanted the best schools I could live in the slums of Beverly Hills and give my kids a 90210 highschool but it really isn't going to make that big a difference. I think I would be better off not being as stressed and helping the kids with their homework and supplimenting with other learning experiences than trying to eek out a living down the street from Buffy and Addington's mega mansion.
I find it interesting that some of our smartest church leaders didn't grow up in these mega mansions. Some had childhoods filled with very little material possessions yet they were somehow able to get educated and make it in life.
I have no illusions of sending my kid to Harvard or Yale and fankly I don't really like those schools anyway. I would rather they get a good education and most importantly live the gospel.
Good comments in this thread. I would look at their debt level when deciding whom to envy. We have a friend who bought a house twice the size of ours, and a Lexus, and a flatscreen tv, and some fancy gaming system. I was a bit jealous in a wistful sort of way. Then I overheard the wife crying one day because they couldn't afford food that week and had to eat at her parent's house and she was so humiliated.
I love my 32" inch tv that is paid for, my old cars that are paid for, my little house that we can easily pay for on just my DH's salary, my clearance rack clothing, and my savings account.
If you can be happy with what you got then when troubles do come in your life you won't be so overwhelmed.
I do have a question though? Is this sort of envy thing more of a female thing? The reason I ask is that I don't know any guys that say this sort of thing but plenty of women that do. Maybe the guys just don't vocalize it.
No, I don't think it's a female thing. i just think men envy different things or have different expectations.
Every time my husbands boss buys a new car, my husband can't get over it. He talks about it and talks about it... he drove it today....it's this color....he looks it up on the internet to see all the features. Granted, it's a car worth half a million dollars, but I could care less.
His persona puts a certain "value" or "coolness" on cars.
Women, on the other hand, "own the home" so to speak, so that is where they place their value - whether or not they have a "nice"(it's all relative) home.
So my question is...if you inherited a fortune, or earned it with a brilliant product or something...how would your lifestyle change?
My brother insisted he would not move or buy new cars, he would just put in a home theatre and do a job he loved. I finally called him on it. THere is NO WAY he wouldn't buy the house with the sewing room for his wife, or the wood shop for him. He finally agreed. If you had the funds...you would do it, too, wouldn't you??
Tell me, or try to convince me, that if money weren't an option, you wouldn't upgrade housed and cars and wardrobes.
Is the only down side the debt? What if there isn't debt? Is there anything wrong with a debt free Hummer in the driveway? Or owning half a dozen homes, each worth more than 10 times the one I own now?
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
I think you would be surprised at how much work it is to manage all those properties. I don't like Hummers paid for or not. I'll take a good stock Jeep with a four banger, standard transmission, and diff lock any day. As for upgrading my wardrobe I prefer to wear jeans, T shirt and hiking boots or converse shoes. I could use a new pair of Converse I guess but that's probably something I'd buy now anyway but just haven't gotten around to it. I'm not into Gucci or Prada or dressing like a gangster.
For me the "things" don't help me experience life. The value of having unlimited money for me would be allowing me to have "time" which is more precious a commodity. Instead of sitting here I could be backpacking, diving, surfing, camping, hunting, skydiving, traveling, etc experiencing the sensations of being alive. Driving a Hummer or wearing Gucci won't help me do that.
OK, first thing: I think it's wrong to compare and then play sour grapes with statements like 'I bet they have lots of debt though' or 'I bet their priorities are all screwed up' or 'I bet they really aren't happy.' It's judgmental and often inaccurate to play such games to try to make ourselves feel better. Why do we feel the need to tear down our perceptions of our neighbors this way to make us feel 'equal' to them? If you're playing that game, why not play it like, 'I bet they pay their tithing and have really done a good job getting a good education and budgeting so they have more.' Or does that hurt too much?
Fact is, life isn't fair. So someone else has more material possessions. SO WHAT. So someone else seems to have more spiritual strength. SO WHAT. All we know is that it's fair IN THE LONG RUN. Whether they have problems or trials that we can't see, or whether they 'earned' more by being more valiant in the pre-existence, or WHATEVER, it doesn't matter. We will be judged equally for exactly what we are given. We have to let go of the comparisons.
As to the situation you are in, Ros, I say you knew what it was when you picked it up. You chose to live in that level of neighborhood. Yes, you chose it for the schools, but the fact is that you chose all the other qualities of the area at the same time, frankly they are fused together. And I didn't see much in your post about being judged by anyone but you, so it sounds like that is wher the change has to take place. YOU will have to be the one to decide how to feel when you see the opulence in your neighborhood. Envy? Love? Equality? Judgment? And if you find that you just can't stop the negative feelings, then again, you get to choose: is it worth it to stay in a type of neighborhood that provides you with temptations beyond your capacity to endure? Note the direction of the statement: again, it is YOU that is the factor. Not the perceived righteousness of the neighborhood. Personally, I wouldn't live in a neighborhood like that. I would feel pressure to live a certain way most likely beyond my means and I would be very hard on myself. Plus, I know for a fact that when it comes to that level of schooling, it makes almost no difference. Kids have 2 primary factors determining their intelligence: genetics and upbringing. Yes, good schools can help, but the difference is small. Even if you quote GPAs and rates of getting into college, you cannot remove the fact that the genetics and upbringing in those types of neighborhoods are going to be much different than the genetics and upbringing in a poorer neighborhood.
Personally, I grew up in a poorer family (8 kids and bad money-management skills though both of my parents have college degrees), in a rural/suburban neighborhood, middle class at best. I was in Oklahoma, with some of the poorest schools in the country. I was in an area of the state with mediocre schools (schools in Oklahoma depend very much on the tax base of the school district, not as much from state funding). Yet I was a National Merit Scholar, ranked as the top 1/2 of 1% of students in the COUNTRY, and I was actively sought as a student from all the ivy league schools. Would it have made a difference for my parents to live in a 'better' school district? Well, I definitely would have had more opportunities as far as number of languages available to learn or number of AP classes I could take; I might have even learned a few more facts in the classes that were basically the same. But I really doubt it would have made me significantly smarter in the long run or given me a better shot at college.
Bottom line: you choose. You choose your neighborhood and the qualities thereof, you choose how you react to your surroundings, you choose your priorities and the positive and negative consequences thereof.
The bad thing about those rich neighborhoods is that they are less tollerant of folks firing guns off in the back yard. But what is a guy supposed to do when confronted by a mad gopher. Nothing less than a 44 magnum will do in that situation!
Just to clarify, I despise Hummers and my idea of "expensive name brand" clothing is Old Navy. I would just like to buy a pair of jeans without saving up for it first.
And, Sales, you and I would spend our time much the same way. But, it does cost $$ to travel and surf and skydive.
And when I say "Better Schools," I'm talking, literally, about test scores. You will never convince me that attending the school with the lowest test scores or the one with the highest won't make any difference to my son's ability to learn and enjoy school. There is a reason why the school has the highest test scores. If the reason is genetics and upbringing - that would mean the smartest children and best parents live in upper-class areas--I don't think so.
I have made no comment on the character of the people in my neighborhood. I have no gripe with their character.
I just wonder if the benefits of living among the wealthy are enough to deal with the always-possible "pride-cycle" that accompanies prosperity. And whether I would even take notice if i were on the other side of the bank account?
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
I think it is true that the "more" people make the "more" they start thinking they need to have. Cat and I can relate to your situation Ros. We live in a fairly affluent area and our house could probably fit in some of the houses in the area and some houses of the members of the ward. It used to bother us alot (and it still does sometimes), but we decided it wasn't worth it. Do I sometimes wish we had more? Sure. But, I try not to dwell on it, because it only makes one miserable and it doesn't do any good. I've had to learn to be grateful for what we have, because even though there are alot of people who have more there are also alot of people who have less.
We live in the area we do as well, partially because of the schools. But what is interesting to me, despite the fact that we have such a "great" school district, with all its money it can't provide the special education our autistic son needs. So he is bussed to another, less affluent district every day. (And it is an excellent program too). Our home district provides and pays for his transportation and tuition to attend school in this other district. It actually costs them more to do that than if he attended school here. They've been doing that all the years we've lived here. If the district doesn't have what the child needs they bus them out! They finally wised up a few years ago and realized they needed to create a program of their own, but right now all they have is an elementary school program. By the time they have a high school one, our son will be done with high school.
You will never convince me that attending the school with the lowest test scores or the one with the highest won't make any difference to my son's ability to learn and enjoy school. There is a reason why the school has the highest test scores. If the reason is genetics and upbringing - that would mean the smartest children and best parents live in upper-class areas--I don't think so.
OK, first, I didn't say the school had made no difference. I just said it was not the biggest factor. And when it comes to genetics and upbringing -- the smartest children and best parents generally DO live in upper-class areas, it's been proven time and time again. Smarts GENERALLY mean more earning potential, so you earn more. Then your children have your money AND your genes, so children from these families are more likely to have better test scores. Also, families with stronger work ethics -- generally a learned trait ('upbringing') -- have more earning potential, again, passing the money along with the value, and stronger work ethics also lead to better test scores. Fewer single parents, better child care, more opportunities to have the mother in the home, all correlate BOTH with higher incomes AND higher test scores. Am I saying that it is impossible for a smart child to come from the slums or a moron to come from the Heights? Absolutely not! But the strongest determining factors for high test scores -- genetics and upbringing (including environment) -- correlate most highly with higher incomes. So the simple fact that a school from an affluent area has higher test scores is absolutely insufficient data to point to a causal correlation between that school and higher test scores -- though it probably has SOME positive effect on test scores, it's not nearly as significant as pure numbers may seem to indicate.
Ros wrote:You will never convince me that attending the school with the lowest test scores or the one with the highest won't make any difference to my son's ability to learn and enjoy school.
I am not trying to pick on any one... However, this comment could feel pretty insulting to someone with kids in a "non-performing" school... Personally I have learned to take such blanket statements for what they are... frustration with a non-working system of measurement. I appreciate your frustration Ros... but you are expending (IMO) energy on the wrong fight.
The high school that every one of my kids have attended all their years (this year Son2, our youngest, will graduate from it, with honors and some full scholarships...) is in one of the worst school districts (by standard measurements) in the state of AZ... I have heard really insulting comments directed (by people living just 20 miles from here...) towards those same kids of mine about their achievements... like: "How much stupid does it take to graduate in the top 2% of your class... or even BE valedictorian of Podunk High???"
When it comes down to the stuff that matters... Son1 served an honorable full time mission... Daughter spent time in China the year after she graduated "serving children" at her own expense, (which mommy and daddy did not pay for)... Several Eagle Scouts that called this house a home, have served this community very WELL! Not to mention, ALL my kids have gotten some pretty decent scholarships for college in this state.
Bottom line, all my kids are WELL educated, because we are their primary educators... All kids should go to school to be taught, yes... However that is NOT an exclusive place to learn... In fact I hope I can always say that our HOME is the best school the kids learned at... even though we were always impressed that they were needed as an influence for good in their public schools and so were not home schooled... It was a conscious choice on our part to buy a home in an area that we could afford... EVEN when things were bad... Our children brought many good friends home and into our lives we would not have met if we had made a different choice of where to live and which school to attend.
Your frustrations are not a new attitude in my experience... In fact over the last 4 years literally every active LDS family (I am not being over the top here... Son2 is the only active LDS child left at the HS...) except ours has either moved to a "better neighborhood" and home schooled/bused their kids into private schools... or stayed where they are and abandoned the local school by driving their kids over to the ones 20 miles away, in the "better district"...
I am not saying that is wrong... but neither is making a different, informed and inspired choice.
Dyany... In our school the only kids that succeed are the ones that parents are involved and care... I've worked with "the board"... I've worked in all the schools... I have seen and had to deal with good teachers, bad teachers and everything in between... I believe the BIGGEST factor in educational success from the earliest years up... is parents that love the LORD (from all faiths) and are/stay involvement in their children's lives and learning.
BTW... what happens for instance to the kids of someone who had a Masters of "Something Successful" and then they got real sick and "lost" a lot of what they "knew" before... Are their kids suddenly at a disadvantage??? Just curious if I should be worried about dumbing down my kids as I loose more and more of my brainpower... Cause the way things are going... THAT is a given, no matter what neighborhood we live in....
Polly -- exactly, parents that are involved and care are part of the 'upbringing' factor. And frankly, sad though it is, that happens more in more affluent neighborhoods than it does in poor neighborhoods. I don't think they've ever done studies on 'how much they love the Lord' (though if I am remembering correctly, religiosity has a positive effect on most positive factors in a child's life), but I know that anyone who follows the prophet has to put at least some respect and value on education.
Otherwise, I know there are many, many factors that affect the learning experiences of children, including illness, family difficulties, etc., and different children are affected differently. Unfortunately, the best we can do with science at this point in time when it comes to this sort of thing is track correlations to the point where we have a general idea of what most likely affects these things. I love the research of it -- that's why I got my degree in psychology -- but I think it will be well into the hereafter before we understand everything with any degree of absolute certainty. In the meantime, we do the best with what we have. :)
I see a lot of the "science and statistics" as a red herring... We get so caught in what isn't we forget to figure out what is... I've spent my fair share of time struggle with this thing or that... but one place I feel like I have done it right was in my kids' education... and yet, not once did I worry about that school district we were moving to, or how much money was being poured into it...
The only thing we used as a deciding factor was our lowest possible earning power in the event of another layoff... and what the Lord directed us to do... We are certainly not "more right" than our neighbors here in Smalltown AZ, nor are we less right... But then I guess it's a good thing that I don't believe all those stats... I forgot to fail... I an right smack dab in the middle of the "failing camp"... I can't "hear you" la lala, la lalala...
I am not trying to pick on any one... However, this comment could feel pretty insulting to someone with kids in a "non-performing" school... Personally I have learned to take such blanket statements for what they are... frustration with a non-working system of measurement. I appreciate your frustration Ros... but you are expending (IMO) energy on the wrong fight.
I was told that I chose the neighborhood I live in and if I don't like the upper-crust, I shouldn't have moved here.
My response about schools isn't my fight - at all - only a deciding factor for living in areas where most people make and spend gross amounts of money.
My question is whether it's worth it? The YW/YM leadership is having a hard time finding a service project for Christmas because if it's a labor-centered project, kids won't come, and if its a donated service (Sub for Santa) the kids just give their parents a list of what to buy and there is no 'service' rendered.
Can I counter thoses influences for my own son?
The bishop plans Super activities for Wow! factor and Bragging rights with the other wards - they refuse to go on a Trek, too hard, not fun.
But, the High School is rated #2 in the state and it's true. More Sterling Scholars, more scholarships, more awards come from this school than most in the state. I want that benefit.
I don't mean to insult someone in a 'weaker' school. And there is nothing that says your own children won't thrive and succeed - especially because you are involved. Maybe I don't trust myself as much - I need all the help I can get.
Would you move to a better district (or private schooling) if money weren't a factor?
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
... and yet, not once did I worry about that school district we were moving to, or how much money was being poured into it...
This is where we differ. After determining an area we were to live in(due to employment), the very next thing we look at is schools. We look at all the ratings and test scores and choose the district and boundries where we will look for housing.
My BIL(in his newly built mega-mansion) whines and cries about all the dumb problems they have in their schools - but not once did they even glance in the direction of schooling when they were picking out a lot to build on.
It's just something that's important to us.
The second thing we do is go to Sacrament Meeting to see if anyone sings.....
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"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
Would you move to a better district (or private schooling) if money weren't a factor? I was going to simply say 'no', but then I realized that wasn't true. Quality of schools is one of the many factors we would consider when moving to a new area if money weren't a factor. However, it wouldn't patently trump other factors, including socioeconomic comfort levels. I highly value education and intelligence, but I am the first to admit that it's only one of many areas in which I want my children to be in perfect environments, and I want things to be as much in balance as I can muster. E.g., I would be unhappy if my children felt economically downtrodden or socially outcast even if that same environment gave them perfect SATs. But that's just me.
In our neighborhood, about half of the homes are on the historical register--multi-million-dollar Victorian mansions that used to belong to the early oil barons in this area. The guest houses are bigger than our home. The urban professionals who live there now have their reward. They have their homes professionally decorated for Christmas and put them on the Candlelight tour so everyone can visit and admire their wealth. The homes truly are beautiful. And I admire them. I'm confident that if I used my time and talents in the pursuit of material wealth, I could also have what they have.
Our family of six lives in a modest 1600 sqft home in the other part of the neighborhood. We've chosen to use our time and talents in other ways. We have our reward--riches beyond our ability to be fully grateful for. I wouldn't dream of trading what I have for what my neighbors have.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
Ros wrote:Would you move to a better district (or private schooling) if money weren't a factor?
Only if that is where the Lord said we should be in order for us to acheive what we need to achieve in this life. To me the place where you get your education is less important than the actual education efforts.
Every Prophet I have personally listened to since I was old enough to pay attention has said that I should get out of debt and stay out of debt... For me money IS and always will be a factor, because we spend on medical needs for my disease twice what our mortgage is every month. That is our part, not the insurance. Without insurance we could not have a house... So when we looked at where were should live we found an area that we could actually buy in, and still maintain the payments in a worse case scenario... Then we ask for Heavenly Father to confirm our choice. That was and will always be our process.
FWIW, we have some VERY affluent people that live in our area... they could live in mansions in any part of the state actually. I don't know this because they flaunt it... I know this because I have been in a position to know the good that they do, quietly. They tell me they choose to live here because of the humility of the members in the wards, in this part of the stake... It has nothing to do with income, they just love the area... So I guess maybe one solution would be to do what the members in this community do... pick the ward/area you want to live in and then send your kids to private/better schools???
I really I have no idea what the answers to your questions are, cause to me they are not questions I would ask.
ETA: I doubt there is a right answer... But there are probably right questions for you to be asking the Lord... so that is probably where I would focus my energy too... Sounds like you ARE doing that...
We live in a 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment. I would be extremely grateful to have a mattress to sleep on. You can easily grab the pitcher from the fridge when sitting at the dinner table, and the only thing that can fit on our counter is the dish drainer, because we don't have a dish washer.
We chose this place because the managers are LDS, it's close enough to school that the bike ride is easy, and we could afford it.
And I've never been happier in my life.
Yes, I would love a nice house with room for our stuff, where when my mom offers to buy me a painting I don't have to figure out how cram it onto our already full walls. I would love a house where we had room for storage so that it doesn't become so cluttered. I would love it if I didn't have to close the paper tray on my printer so that I could open my closet.
But I really couldn't be happier. I have a husband whom I am sealed to for eternity, I am constantly working on goals so that I can progress in life, we have a fun time coming up with cheap date ideas and don't mind waiting until movies come to the cheap student theater (with our buy one get one free coupons! You just can't really beat $3 for 2 to go to a movie!), and so far we have never been at a point where we can't afford food.
I find that when I start feeling envious, I really need to just look at my own situation. "Count Your Blessings" is such an amazing idea. Really, the instant you start looking for the good things in your life, and how the Lord has blessed you every day, it's a lot easier to forget about the worldly things.
I feel like I'm starting to sound like Pollyanna, but I loved her "Glad" game.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
Thanks Glummy, and you reminded ME of some of the things I am loving right now... Watching engaged Son1 & Sweetee... they are too cute together... However they haven't been able to find a place to rent... Rentals are almost as precious as hen's-teeth in our area and anywhere near where Sweetee will be teaching in January or where Son1 is going to school full time... and so we have been praying mightily that something will open up soon that they can put a deposit on... In the meantime they spend their days "being in LOVE" and clueless to what will come 10 years from now, with a different set of concerns... and I think to myself... It's a wise Father that only gives us today to see...
Daughter is just a wee bit "jealous" (but in the best way, really) that they are already at the engagement stage... She writes supportive and appropriately spiritual messages... to her missionary friend that has only been out for 6 months... And reminds us a lot that she is NOT "waiting" for him... but you should see her excitement when a letter comes...
Son2 is a bit jealous of Elder MF (missionary friend) of Daughter's, who is already ON "his" mission... Son2 being just 17.5 wishes that he were old enough to go with some of his friends that are getting their calls right NOW!!!
There is always something to be a bit envious of, isn't there??? Better to use your example...
It's possible that I'm just really poor right now and it's affecting me negatively but I'm sick of this.
I don't want to keep up anymore. I can't stand driving by the mega-mansions, I'm sick of driving the only mediocre car in the neighborhood.
I think it really hit home when, after spending the last 8 months and every penny I possess on an adequate remodel of the house (adequate meaning the budget model,) and then I go to the 'twenty-somethings with no kids' new mansion with imported tile and granite and crown mouldings and top of the line Mac Lab.
I do have a home theatre - the smallest "big Screen" you can buy (the fat, out of date model) and still call it a big screen; and a gently used speaker system we could only afford because the speakers are huge and no one wants such hideous things in their house.
And we love it.
Then we go to the newlyweds up the street and wander through their brand new custom house with huge-screen tv and start to feel like we live in the wrong neighborhood.
It's everywhere!! I feel like I'm drowning in an ocean of money, none of it mine.
i keep telling myself that it doesn't matter, and I believe that, but everytime a new family in the ward spends a month in Europe or Belize, or drives by in their brand new $50,000 truck while I'm climbing into my $1000 truck we got a government auction, I get irked!
Am I just green with envy? Am I just stressed from digging pennies out of the couch to pay for my schooling or some MDF cabinetry?
I know that when I look at my home and possesions, I am content. We live better than so many. But I feel like others must be wondering how we live in such a hovel, because how can they came from their pristine, top of the line homes and not think mine is pathetic??
Am I irked because they have it soooo much better or because I know how many people are suffering and they are dumping money into gas-guzzling cars??
I have always lived on the edge of the "better" neighborhood - mostly for educations sake - but I don't want it anymore. I'm irritated with feeling like I won't be an effective leader in YW because I don't have the cool stuff - they don't want to ride in my car when we go to activities - they don't want to hang out in my mediocre kitchen. I don't have a boat. I don't have a playstation.
But mostly, I don't want to feel like money matters at all.
But, does it?? How will it effect my son in High School?? At what point do you become the 'weird' kid who doesn't eat white bread and has to walk (the 2 blocks) to school instead of driving his new truck or convertable like the rest of them?
And, the most disturbing question of all, if I had the money---would I be the same way?
It sounds to me as if you are tired of working your butt off and just squeaking by, while others seem to have it easy. I'm sorry you're tired and frustrated. You have some hard decisions to make. There have been some good thoughts shared here. I wish you the best in doing what's right for yourself and your family.
If you can't be happy with nothing, you can't be happy with everything... cuz happiness doesn't come from stuff... Life is as good as it gets right now... You decide how good that good will be. (this is my new theme, btw... I just kinda been repeating it to myself lately... and it makes me happy inside.)
--Ray
-- Edited by rayb at 23:29, 2007-10-13
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
la lala, la lalala...
And reminds us a lot that she is NOT "waiting" for him... but you should see her excitement when a letter comes...
