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rayb


Hot Air Balloon

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The Baptismal Covenant
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All this talk of broken covenants and how members should react, leads me to wonder...

When you enter the baptismal covenant, do you also make a sort of unstated covenant with your fellow members to provide support and to strengthen each other, etc?

We often quote the "Mourn with those that mourn..." part of the covenant, and Paul makes a fairly big deal about being a part of the body of Christ... language from the Book of Mormon... isn't there a certain element of understanding here?  

Or is confirmation (that comes at the hands of the priesthood with the gift of the Holy Ghost), is that a sort of unstated covenant relationship with fellow members?

How do you view your fellow saints in regards to your covenants? Or do you view your covenant of baptism as SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY between you and God, and has no impact upon anyone save you and God? And if you do view it that way, why would baptism even be necessary? God already knows your heart...

And another question arises in my warped mind: Do we need each other in order to be perfected?

Here's Mosiah 18: In case you wanted to read the text without looking it up... I hear this quoted at baptismal services all the time... 

 7 And it came to pass after many days there were a goodly number gathered together at the place of Mormon, to hear the words of Alma. Yea, all were gathered together that believed on his word, to hear him. And he did teach them, and did preach unto them repentance, and redemption, and faith on the Lord.
  8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one anothers burdens, that they may be light;
  9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life
  10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?
  11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts.



--Ray


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Roper


Senior Bucketkeeper

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rayb wrote:

And another question arises in my warped mind: Do we need each other in order to be perfected?

It's clear to me that's the only way.

 



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Cat Herder


Understander of unimportant things

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I thought I had posted this earlier, but maybe I hit a different button instead of post.

I think the Gospel is kind of like the way Scouting ideally should / would run.

The teaching and participation is definitely group effort, but the testing and advancement is individual.

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Cocobeem


Keeper of the Holy Grail

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Yeah, there's like 50 questions in that OP... lemme see.... I'm reminded of the verse,

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Something that was playing on my mind today... I was in DI looking at clothes (yes, most of my clothes I buy second-hand) and there was a mother-daughter looking at clothes as well. The daughter was mentally slow. Their relationship was so sweet. The language they used with each other was so gentle and loving. The mom kept repeating, "It's whatever you think." (About choosing clothes.) Then I overheard the daughter call her mother over to the fitting room and then some low chatter and then the daughter says, "Okay, that's why I wanted your opinion." Every exchange was so respectful and loving. They were not physically attractive people, but what they had was a secret that I think fewer and fewer people are "getting." It was really something special. I told myself I was going to try to speak more lovingly to my own family. Sometimes I get in a rut and I don't give much thought to the way things come out of my mouth. My family is precious to me and they deserve a little more effort and thought on my part. (I don't even think I'm on topic anymore... sorry.)

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Cat Herder


Understander of unimportant things

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Cocobeem wrote:

I told myself I was going to try to speak more lovingly to my own family. Sometimes I get in a rut and I don't give much thought to the way things come out of my mouth. My family is precious to me and they deserve a little more effort and thought on my part. (I don't even think I'm on topic anymore... sorry.)


No, it isn't terribly "on topic" at face value, but don't be sorry, cuz it is actually very related. What goes on in our family and how we talk to each other there really does matter and really does have an impact on how we relate with others outside the family.  I think it also conditions us for the type of response we expect to get from people outside the family too.  If we are used to harsh tones, criticism, bickering, fault-finding, and the like, we are going to be more apt to see that coming from others outside the family, even if it isn't there.  And we'll be more likely to behave that way to non-family members as well.



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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
rayb


Hot Air Balloon

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Thanks for your thoughts, Coco, it's exactly the sort of loving and compassionate type of observations I wish all of us could enjoy in our families. :)

--Ray

__________________
I'm not slow; I'm special.
(Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
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