Joseph Fielding Smith, the anti-hunter!

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

Joseph Fielding Smith, the anti-hunter!

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Just because he didn't care for it doesn't mean it is wrong. People have their own preferences. Of course it is pretty hypocritical to castigate hunting and hunters if you eat meat.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Well, I think his attitidue is kind of self-evident as to why he didn't approve of hunting... Put it in context. Was he against hunting altogether, or hunting as a "sport"?

Here are the exact quotes from the lesson manual (I've taught this course in the past too):

From Lesson 32:
Joseph Fielding Smith enjoyed and participated in many of the activities that young men enjoy. He liked sports, especially baseball, and he sometimes went fishing, but he did not enjoy hunting. (Tell or read the following.)

Joseph occasionally went fishing, but cared not at all for hunting, perhaps because his father had persuaded him that it was morally wrong to kill for pleasure. One day, however, some of his brothers and friends coaxed him into going rabbit hunting. Reluctantly he shot a rabbit, heard it cry out like a baby, as wounded rabbits often will, was sick at heart, dropped his gun and has never used one since. Like his father, he taught that it is wrong to kill for pleasure

From Lesson 33:
President Smith enjoyed sports and athletics as a young man. He continued to participate in many sports throughout his life and encouraged his children in all sports except hunting.
I don't think it is necessarily fair to say he was anti-hunting because of these statements. I think it more reflects the attitudes he was taught by his forefathers about respecting all of God's creation and not abusing anything that is part of it. It is kind of the same as the respect for nature boys are supposed to learn via Scouting.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

His reaction to the sound of the dieing rabbit is interesting. My brother and I hear that sound and immediately start looking around to see if a coyote or something will come in.

I always say, different strokes for different folks. No one should be forced to hunt.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I think the distinction here is "Hunting as a Sport" was not his thing. It's not my thing either, but I will glady take any deer or elk steaks that you shoot, though Val, and I won't even "shun" you... :)

I think the distinction's important to make. If your intent is to build yourself up because you're really good at slaying animals... well... that's not God's way... but the Doctrine and Covenants section 49 specifically mentions...

18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;

19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.

21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

Note: Even in these four verses, that there's a distinction made about how he that "wasteth flesh" is under condemnation, but that the animals are "ordained" for the use of man.

(Wouldn't you like that ordination? biggrin

)

--Ray

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

nah... more like fore-ordination since the most beasts of the field have got like four feet.

I would like to go hunting sometime, maybe. I don't know if I would have what it takes to actually kill the animal (unless I knew I needed it for food) -- but that is all hypothetical, I probably wouldn't have any problem with it at all in pulling the trigger. But someone experienced would need to be there to show me how to (and probably help me) take care of the carcasse. And I'm gonna need some sherpas, cuz I ain't gonna carry that thing around.

After all, I have a sworn enmity with Ninja Deer. And they did eat all our swiss chard just as it was ready to harvest this summer.

Smaug · Senior Member

Well, President Kimball also made a point of saying that boys shouldn't go out and shoot at birds with their BB guns. Thomas S. Monson and Boyd K. Packer, both hunters, went and asked him about it. President Monson reported President Kimball's response in a regional priesthood leader conference I attended. President Kimball's reply was, "I only meant that you shouldn't go out and kill song birds." Apparently, Elders Monson and Packer were okay for going out and hunting pheasants, ducks, and whatever else they hunted, as long as they weren't doing it for the joy of things.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Okay, I'm not surprised about Monson, but Packer??? Killing animals? Oh, man....

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Well you knew monson was a hunter, because of Maka-feke!! Yes... he's a vicious Octopus hunter!! Muwhahahaha!

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

The joy is in the hunting experience, being outdoors, seeing wildlife, fresh air, exercise, no cell phones. Also, it's hard not to get some enjoyment from blowing apart a vicous carnivorous ground squirrel that is digging up the pasture at 200 yards with a high powered rifle.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Shootin' mutant squirrels and ninja deer are definatly not huntin' fer sport.

I mean, King Arthur and his knights weren't out on a lark when they encountered the killer rabbit while on their quest...

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

What's he do - nibble yer bum?

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

They call me... Tim.

--Ray

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I just want to... sing!

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Hurry! Head to the Saloon! :)

--Ray

LEVE · Veteran Member

Perhaps this will help:I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he needs them for food, and then he should not kill innocent little birds that are not intended for food for man. I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possesses animal life. It is wrong, and I have been surprised at prominent men whom I have seen whose very souls seemed to be athirst for the shedding of animal blood. (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1939, pp. 26566.)

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Joseph F.

Awesome dude.

glumirk · Senior Member

Hey! We taught those lessons too! Then we just found out that we don't actually get the younger kids, we get the older ones, so now we get to teach New Testament. I was really liking those Presidents of the Church lessons though, and so were the kids!

So what if Joseph Fielding hated hunting? His father taught him not to, and when he did he just felt sorry for the poor fluffy bunny. He could still beat both his sons at once at a game of handball, until he was told not to play anymore by a physician when he was about 20! That's pretty amazing!

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Ahhhh good old handball or what I like to refer to as poor man's tennis.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you are raised. If you are raised in a rural environment where you have seen or raised animals for slaughter then the fluffy bunny becomes less of a fluffy bunny and more of a fluffy supply of protien. It's easy to eat that hamburger when you didn't raise it from a calf and send it to the slaughter house or butcher it yourself. Today of course we live such sterile lives that we don't associate that hamburger with the happy cow playing in the meadow that used to follow us around when it was a calf sucking on our fingers. Society has marginalized fur wearing with the "Fur is Murder" campaigns and movies showing baby seals get clubbed. Now there's a stigma on fur but really what is the difference between wearing a baby seal and wearing a leather belt. An animal still died. Is it because that cow wasn't as cute as the baby seal? That's a pretty dumb way to make a judgement. But I know the mind can be illogical sometimes. People won't eat venison because of the Bambi movie but they'll still eat a hamburger from a cow that was slaughtered minutes before it would have died of old age.

Now there are people who do see wildlife as their own personal shooting galleries and shoot every thing that moves for pure enjoyment. Those people are rare though. 99% of sportsman follow the rules and are ethical in their hunting and fishing.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

I think the "cuteness" factor plays a major role. It's fine to squash a cockroach, but when the bunny is in the garden, it is different. To me, it isn't. I shoot the little bunnies in my garden. They are a rodent, carry disease, eat my garden.

I firmly believe that you do not kill just to kill, that is not proper and we have to answer for the blood we shed. Unless it is a pest, if I shoot it, I eat it. So, mostly, I deer hunt.

Deer hunting is almost the top thrill for me in addition to providing meat.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I think it's possible to overhunt animals too. This nearly happened with whaling. And now tribes in the NW want to have their rights to hunt whales restored... some tribesman just got in trouble for dissing the law and going out to hunt whale because he saw it as his "tribal right".

(of course he used a machine gun to kill the poor animal...)

I wouldn't say whales are cute. I think they are a higher form of life. There are different orders among the beasts. At least that's what the D&C seems to suggest in answering questions about the Book of Revelation...

--Ray

Poncho29 · Senior Bucketkeeper

If anyone wants to go around hunting any of the over-population of deer our way, that'll be a-ok with me. And if anyone from the city catches you and you get in trouble, just tell them Cat sent you.