I know, Church is for learning and worship. It's not a social affair. And, I'd like to think that I'm "above" caring about such things, but I've realized that I do care.
I was going to a playgroup every week. I stopped hearing about it. I asked someone, she said they weren't meeting anymore. I found out this week that they are.
People at church socialize. Their families have dinner together. They do FHE together. People are fairly friendly with us at church, but we're never included in any of this.
I go to Relief Society and in spite of talking to a lot of people, trying to make people feel included, and making sure I talk to whomever I sit by, I don't feel like I have friends there. Pleasant ward members, yes, but I don't have real friendships like so many of the other women seem to.
I do make an effort. I'm on Activities Committee; the bishop specifically told me that's part of my calling (trying to get to know people). But I always feel like I'm on the fringes of being included. I don't think it's just this ward, either; it's kind of been that way everywhere, since I was a little girl.
I'm probably just weird.
How's that for a whine-fest? :p
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
I probably have about 50+ LDS families in my home each year. I am one of those members who has a revolving door around his house and kitchen, etc... My wife and I both love cooking. Heck, even today, I have a guest living in my house with their three teenage kids for the weekend.
I started this trend before I was married, mostly cuz I was delighted to find out that once you got out of high school that most people didn't care about cliques and you could actually be friends with them without them judging you "worthy" of their friendship. (That happens in High School... but in college it starts to change... I think it's called maturity.)
Anyhow though we have so many guests in our home (and you and your family are welcome here anytime, Jen), we've had a total of ... um... maybe 3 return dinner appointments and social engagements in return. We cast a wide net, but it's amazing how few folks really have it together enough to return the favor.
I don't take it personally, though. Honestly, I just keep trying to cover the whole ward. There are people in your ward, Jen, who feel like you do. They feel alone. Open your home to them, even if they don't reciprocate, it will open hearts. It is one of the few ways I can give more than I receive. Lay up treasures for yourself in Heaven, where moth and rust do not break through nor steal. You are not forgettable, and you do matter. Every member of the body of Christ is important... even the earlobes and the elbows... and the uvula... :)
There was a time in my life when I was a single in a singles ward. Everyday I went through the motions of going to church, but didn't feel much in return. Everyone was making successful strides in dating, and having social engagements and being involved in forming "eternal" relationships. When it came to feeling a part of the body of Christ, I felt like the mold between his toes. I had had deeply spiritual experiences so I knew where the truth was, but week after week of self-pity and personal flaggellation tended to wear down my spirit rather than lift it up. One week I decided enough was enough. I remember pleading with the Lord that I might find Christ and only Christ in church. All the other concerns didn't matter, I needed the Lord. That very next Sunday I went to church and all the things that annoyed me about the church didn't matter--in fact I was able to see that these people with whom I was so easily annoyed were like me in many ways, just trying to do their best according to their own upbringing and their own struggles. They didn't have my struggles but they did care about the Lord. That was what tied us together--no matter how gangly and awkward and imperfect. And that imperfection was what changed me. I could see the Lord's hand and what used to be a painful reminder of my own imperfections was a reminder of how the Lord is working in all the members of the church, helping and lifting them and giving them room to grow and choose and try and fail. I had experienced a change of heart.
It is my opinion that we need many changes of heart--that one flash of revelation for most of us is just not enough for most of us... some prophetic folks, sure... they get one big revelation and everything changes, but for us, we have degrees of change... according to how much we allow the Lord to change us.
Perhaps this is an opportunity for change in your life... perhaps you should ask the Lord who you should invite home for a nice sunday dinner after church and then go out and find that person. When I do that, I receive distinct impressions from the Lord. I often invite two families at a time... two distinct completely different people meeting in my house... and it's amazing... if time after time, I don't discover that they have more in common and three new friendships are forged and understanding is laid down like a pathway... that didn't exist prior to the moment these two met.
People are complicated and we all have our fears and struggles, but we share the Covenant of Baptism and we all need a friend... my experience has been if I wait for a friend to lift me up, I'll sit in the mud for a long time, but if I get up and wipe myself off and go out to find lots of folks to lift, that eventually the stuff on me just kinda rubs off in the simple acts of kindness... so there...
I see your whine and up you a big preachy lecture...
Huggers,
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Poncho and I understand the way you feel... Been there done that... And, to some extent we still kind of feel like we're on the fringes. We were on Activities Committee for a couple years as well. Perception is everything when it comes to, well, perception!
I mean, we don't have a big home like a lot of the people in our ward... I'm not in a high profile, high pay job like a lot of the men in the ward... we don't have lots of members that live in our area of the ward, and those that do are a lot younger in family member age than us... our kids don't go to the same schools as their peers at Church... we don't have the money or opportunity to vacation and throw parties like others... we are not involved in all kinds of extracurricular activities for all our kids and us... we have a teenaged mentally handicapped child whereas they do not...
When it comes right down to it, we're more or less social boobs...
But, ultimately it doesn't matter. We used to let it matter though, and it caused us to have a great amount of envy for others in our ward, which was wrong. We used to imagine how much fun we were being left out of. Until we decided it didn't really matter, because they were our brothers and sisters anyway and we loved them anyway despite our perception of inequality. And, you know what, we found out that they loved us too.
You know what I found out recently, Jen, is that a lot of the folks Poncho and I have always assumed were the social butterflies in our ward really in fact do not do a whole lot of socializing after all. And that has opened up a whole realm of possibility for us, if we choose to get out of our "safe zone". A lot of people like to approach socializing with ward members from an almost passive basis.
What you need to do is simply decide what type of social life you really want / need with your fellow ward members, and then just go about building it up. Take the initiative. Don't wait for others to include you (yeah, easier said than done). Even if it is something as simple as finding another couple or two to go have a temple night with and then afterwards dinner out at restuarant of choice. Start small. And if you fall out of the communication loop for "planned" or "semi-planned" activities (like this playgroup), don't get upset or hurt, just find a way to get back in the loop.
Church is for learning, spiritual nourishment and worship. But it is also for social interaction. If you don't think so, where does Activities Committee tie in to the three fold mission of the Church? Perfecting the saints! How the heck do ya think folks are going to be willing to bear one another's burdens if they don't know one another beyond the Sunday smiles and casual conversations in the halls?
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Jen, I can relate. I've often felt the same way. I have some thoughts, but they are scattered, so I'll collect them and come back.
I'm sorry you're having difficulty.
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
I have the same level of friendship in my wards Jen...
For example we have lived here for years and years (all of my children were small when we moved) ... During that time I have known exactly 2 women in my general age group, that I came to consider good friends... (they lived here at different times, and neither was already living here when we moved into the ward...) Both have moved away because their hubby's were transferred... So honestly... all of my dearest friends live in other cities and states... I have one very close friend at work, but we rarely do anything outside of work... For the most part the people I do things with are my family. That doesn't mean that there are not women that I am drawn to and love dearly... but they just don't live near me...
I have had few women that I have been close to ever that lived near me... Almost all of my friends have been people I write to... most of my life too... That is one of the reasons I like email so much. I am very close to 2 of my sisters, but one is 9 years older and the other is 3.5 years younger... so not exactly at the same life points as I most of the time, and we haven't lived close to each other for years either...
At almost 50 I realize (just now in fact) that I feel very blessed to enjoy the company of hubby and my children more than others, because they are the ones that I want to be with forever... I know that doesn't help you, as the mom of young children that needs support, but I just wanted to say I understand...
Just reading the title of this thread brings tears to my eyes. I have been thinking about this often lately. For me, there are a lot of issues involved.
Some wards are better than others at fellowshipping and being inclusive. Both of the wards I've been a member of in this area seem to sorta leave you to figure things out for yourself. There are some attempts to make you feel welcome, but they only come from the leadership. My ward in Colorado was very inclusive in my experience. However, I still felt lonely there.
I haven't had a best friend (female) since high school. That friendship basically ended because she got married at 18 and very soon became too busy to stay in touch. I think this was more upsetting to me than I admitted to myself. I believe I became somewhat wary of close friendships after that.
I tend to not trust young mothers. I am afraid that they will judge me, my children and my parenting skills. I feel judged for having a non-member husband. I feel like my house isn't clean enough, my children aren't scholastically brilliant enough, and my lack of sewing, gardening and breadmaking skills put me outside the circle. I feel like I'm just not like them.
I think it comes down to not trusting myself to be able to deal with it when the worst happens. Suppose I do get a few close friends at church, what happens when I tick em off? (And I will at some point...) What happens when I end up being too intense or around too much? What happens when somebody who I thought was my friend finds out something about me that they don't like and instead of saying anything she just stops being my friend?
Of course, there are reasonable answers to those questions. I just don't believe them. I think the answer will end up being that I get hurt and that I end up disliking myself a bit more at the end of it all.
So, I guess for me, it comes down to this: I don't fit in because I am afraid to.
-- Edited by hiccups at 13:42, 2007-09-02
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
Jen, not sure how much this will help, but you're not alone :)
Sister Roper established a walking group--she met with several friends a feww times each week and they walked to a nearby park to visit while the little ones played. Then one day, nobody showed up. So Sister Roper walked to her friend's house. This is the friend who has been the longest member of the group and to whom Sister Roper had become quite close. The friend was having a birthday party for her daughter, had specifically scheduled it for the exact same time as the walking group, and had invited to the party all the women from the walking goup and their children, except for my wife and our two little ones. There was a really awkward moment--my wife and our two little ones at the door all hot and sweaty from the walk in the Texas heat--immediately ascertaining the situation. She wasn't invited in and wasn't even offered a drink. Ouch.
Three months later, we're still dealing with the fallout from that one. The friend stopped communicating with Sister Roper. She's polite at church but avoids any unnecessary or extended contact with us. Her excuse: "It's just that my daughter misbehaves when she's around your son, and I want to avoid that." Right. Grow up and accept responsibility for your own actions.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
I'm so sorry to hear that Roper. That lady was a jerk. It boggles my mind when people behave like that. That someone could be that immature and insensitive. Reading over some of these posts reminds me how there are so many people who have left the church because they got their feelings hurt or were insulted somehow. The church is true, but the people in it are so human. For the most part I don't think anyone intentionally tries to leave other people out, occasionally there's the insensitive jerk who does and is basically... a jerk.
I agree with Ray and Cat. Sometimes if we want someone to reach out to us, we have to reach out first. Maybe the return isn't always what we would like or expect, but at the same time there might be some who appreciate those overtures but aren't able to express it. And yes, sometimes you wonder why you bother. But its worth it in the end.
Alot of times people quietly suffer, but we don't need to suffer. If someone hurts us, even if its hard we have to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and move on. You never know we just might one day find that one friendship that lasts a lifetime or even longer.
As a side note. We got a phone call tonight from a lady out of the blue, who was in our ward when we lived down in Ohio over 9 years ago. She was our autistic's son primary teacher at one time and worked so well with him and loved him. She wanted to know how we were doing and said there were others down there who wanted to know how we were doing.
It kind of does your heart good, when you hear there are people who still think about you and care about you.
If you give expecting return you'll pretty much ALWAYS be disappointed.
People are freaky about friendships. I don't know what to counsel, honestly. Everyone has differing expectations about what is a good friendship. Some people look at friendship as the means to an end, while others judge their own well being on it.
I know that there are people who openly calculate what a friendship with a person will cost them or if it will profit them. When my wife was a teenager the mother of one of her friends called my wife's mother and told her that my wife would not "get her daughter where she needed to be" so she would no longer be allowed to be friends with my wife. This was during a transition from Junior High to High School... They were also in the same ward...
I don't suggest it's easy, but I think that if you cast your net out as wide as you can, you will find it easier to dismiss the jerks, because you'll eventually find the few who actually do reciprocate without duress or without a feeling of obligation. YOu don't want to guilt someone into being your friend. That never works either... so just give it your best...
OH yeah... Don't keep score... I know that Christ doesn't keep score with us...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Having close friends nearby was more important to me when I had small children, mostly for the social aspect (for myself and my children), as well as having some support resources. That has changed somewhat in the intervening years. I have changed a lot, and my needs are different than they were then. I am friendly with many people in my ward and enjoy associating with them at church and activities, but I'm not close to anyone here.
I tend to form relatively few, very close friendships; in the five years we've lived in this ward, I haven't met anyone that I really resonate with. And that's okay. I do have friends, some very good and cherished friends. They just don't live near me right now.
I think if you did a comprehensive poll of your ward, you'd be surprised at the number of people who feel the same way. Probably including some of the ones you thought were part of the 'in crowd.'
I'm in the same boat, you could probably guess. I kind of blame it on myself though. I figure there are very few out there who just go around pulling people in. If don't have friends, it's because I'm not making the effort to do things. I keep meaning to invite people over for lunch or set up girls' nights and things... The lunches never materialize because I'm a but embarrassed by my housekeeping. The girls' nights...I just don't plan far enough in advance, I guess. And not enough gals check email frequently enough...cause there's no way I'm making that many phone calls. I hate making phone calls. That's probably another cause in the pot.
Mostly I think my 'left-outness' goes over my head. I'm pretty oblivious to slights and snubs and whatnot. I don't take things personally in general. Although...if I can rant for a second: I had a gal in the ward call to ask if I was interested in joined a preschool co-op group she and another gal were forming for my son's age group. I told her definitely yes. At a book club meeting a month later, it came up, and we were talking about the lesson plan book from a previous group I'd been in. They said if I could find out where it had gone, it could come in handy. And then...nothing. I emailed both a couple of times, and got no response. I finally found out from another friend whose son is in the group that they wanted to keep the group within the same school-year age. My son's birthday is a couple weeks after the school-deadline. So...really, I can understand that. No big deal. But...it would have been nice for them to let me know. Since they called me initially. And didn't say anything when we were talking about it to begin with. And didn't answer my emails. Hmph. So. I'm going to assume they were just embarrassed to have to tell me I was out after they'd invited me and carry on my merry way.
I do fine with people one on one. Crowds, that is a different story. During the years my husband was in the army and we were expected to go to these 'affairs', it was horrible. I literally would be in tears, not knowing how to socialize. I'm a few (or many) years older now, and can manage - but still I hated socials. Then 6 weeks ago a son got married. For months prior to the wedding, I stressed. We had to go where we knew noone. (actually, to my surprise, quite a few that we knew made it to the wedding) Anyway, there was the social for the families to become aquanted, dinner, reception, and so on. So many socials! And I stressed over it all.
But before we left, I happened to watch this reality show on TLC. They took three absolutely clueless people and taught them social graces. The one thing that stuck with me was that in crowds, you just go up to someone, stick your hand out and introduce yourself. So, at that first dinner, I squared my shoulder, stuck out my hand and introduced myself. I did this a lot that night. When it came time to sit down and eat, I purposely sat next to people I didn't know (as compared to sitting next to our own family members). By the time the evening was over, there were a lot of people that I felt comfortable with. None of the following socials were with strangers anymore.
My other story is of a sister that used to be in our ward. She was lonely and decided that she would visit 3 sisters every Sunday. Just for a few minutes. By the time she moved, there were so many sisters in the ward that thought she was their best friend. It took time and effort.
If it is that you are looking for that one soul sister, what better way than to 'date' many? You may find that the 'soul' sister is not at all who you think it will be.
Jen, I am so sorry that you feel this way. Your feelings are real. And you do everything you can to reach out. I hope you can form at least one close friendship there. It makes such a difference. Sometimes we get to the habit of being friends only when callings bring us together. Maybe you could try to call someone who is not inovlved in a calling with you so that they know that you are open for a real friendship. Or if you are involved with a calling for a good potential friend, you could call them and say that you are just calling to chat a bit. I think it is always good to say things like, "Is this a good time to talk." I can't imagine why anybody would not want to be friends with you Jen. I think you are cool! And Dyany knows you in person and she likes you too! On the plus side, people are pleasant at Church. Imagine what it would be like to feel like you got the cold shoulder treatment all the time. I should disclose that I have not really read much in the way of other comments yet here. I plan to read more later and maybe even have more input. Before reading this thread, I had a thought for a thread about friendship that I may put up later in the day.
Roper, I am sorry that your wife went through that. I don't think the woman probably expected your wife to find out. Still it is painful. I don't understand it all, but it sounds like a real trial. Trials come in different shapes and sizes. As a friend of mine would say when an adult behaved in a way that was bad, "Some people's children!"
Jen, btw, have you shared your feelings with your bishop or reliefsociety pres.?
one of the reasons we make an effort to assure you we love you is that we know you feel like you don't fit in... :)
Otherwise I'd be harrassing you about some random topic to do with caffienated pop in barbeque sauces used on Sunday wwhich I forgot to pay my tithing on...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I hear you Jen on this one. My ward is mostly military personel. They speak a different language (mostly acronyms) and are pretty cliquish. Those that aren't active duty in the ward are often retired or have some other state, federal, or local government job. I have literally sat at a ward social and not understood a word of the conversation or been pretty much ignored. So we rarely go to ward socials and most of my friends are non members as a result which is fine. We figured that going to church wasn't about being a social club anyway. It is fustrating sometimes. I have pretty short hair so I get asked all the time if I'm in the military when new people move in. When I tell them that I'm not the conversation pretty much stops because we have nothing in common. Add to that that I live in a town other than the one that 99% of the ward members are and you can really start feeling like an outsider real quick.
I've been letting this ruminate for some time. Also this is the first time my hands have been free long enough to type a response.
I appreciate everything you've all said. I think I've made a realization about this specific situation: this group is the "popular girls". For whatever reason, I was allowed into that clique for awhile. Now, I'm not, so I recognize them as a clique LOL. *shrug* And I really hope I never snubbed anyone, but I'm pretty careful about that, so I don't think so.
So now it's deciding what to do with that information. I'm thinking about a few different things. First, let them have their group. I thought this ward was above the "clique" mentality. It's almost been a mourning process to realize that I was wrong about that. I don't need people who are going to operate that way. I graduated high school 11+ years ago and chose to leave that nonsense behind.
There are some people in the ward who I really, really like and I realize I haven't spent much time with. So DH and I will start inviting people for dinner, or picnics in the park, or whatever. I'm mulling over the idea of starting a preschool group, and trying purposefully to reach out to those quieter ones who seem to need it.
Along those lines, the husband of someone I like but don't know well approached me Sunday. She's losing her desire and will to go to church. He's asked me for help, although I don't think he knows exactly what she needs. Maybe I'll start a new thread about that. I'll have to wait til my hands are free again. Baby is crying.
-- Edited by Jen at 11:15, 2007-09-05
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
Question is-- why would you WANT to fit it? Screw 'em!
Okay, for the alternative answer-- I feel much the same way, too. I enjoy ward activities, etc. though we are not "regulars" at these things. Honestly, we'd rather stay home. Staying home is fun. Staying home is enjoyable. There's better food at home. Staying home is a good thing. I like the way bok put it, about "resonating" with people. There's no one in my ward I resonate with either. The ones I do feel some sort of connection with (I usually call it gellin') ... are either retired or... well, retired, I guess.
Anyway-- just my personal opinion/experience- the lds people are not the best at fellowshipping, in fact, some of them really suck. If it were about "friendships" I wouldn't be going to our ward.
I'll never forget Mrs. Drapinski who came over to my house when we first moved to KY. She had a basket with bread and jam and goodies and asked if we had a church... her husband was a preacher and they'd loooove to have us, etc... I was all thinking Mormons were the only ones that did that. *Little* did I know!!
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
I like the way bok put it, about "resonating" with people. There's no one in my ward I resonate with either. The ones I do feel some sort of connection with (I usually call it gellin') 
thinking Mormons were the only ones that did that. *Little* did I know!!
