http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C1655415%2C00.html - ------------------------- 'Jesus has a very special love for you," she assured Van der Peet. "[But] as for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great, that I look and do not see, Listen and do not hear the tongue moves [in prayer] but does not speak ... I want you to pray for me that I let Him have [a] free hand."' ------------------- "The letters, many of them preserved against her wishes (she had requested that they be destroyed but was overruled by her church), reveal that for the last nearly half-century of her life she felt no presence of God whatsoever or, as the book's compiler and editor, the Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk, writes, "neither in her heart or in the eucharist." " --------------------- "The church anticipates spiritually fallow periods. Indeed, the Spanish mystic St. John of the Cross in the 16th century coined the term the "dark night" of the soul to describe a characteristic stage in the growth of some spiritual masters. Teresa's may be the most extensive such case on record. (The "dark night" of the 18th century mystic St. Paul of the Cross lasted 45 years; he ultimately recovered.) Yet Kolodiejchuk sees it in St. John's context, as darkness within faith. Teresa found ways, starting in the early 1960s, to live with it and abandoned neither her belief nor her work. Kolodiejchuk produced the book as proof of the faith-filled perseverance that he sees as her most spiritually heroic act." ----------------------
Crisis of faith - has it happened to you? Mine lasted 5 years, brought on basically because I refused to forgive leaders. Yeah, they made a mistake (probably many) but it was I that needed to repent. What was surprising was when I finally did go and ask forgiveness, my heart was left with emptiness. I had spent so long nursing the grudge, that when that grudge was removed it left a hole. I am still working to fill in the hole.
Do you think that these "dark nights" are given to us to test us? Surely she did not bring it on herself through sin. When the Father's spirit withdrew from Christ, His "dark night" was not brought about by sin. Is it a "characteristic growth stage"?
The one time that could be considered a true crisis of faith (at least for me), my Dad was quick to point out to me what I was doing and that it was nobody's fault but my own and where it would end up if I didn't turn around right then. That had a very profound effect on me, as I had actually been hoping for a "Yeah, you know Cat, you have been wronged." Ever since then, if any situation even comes close to that, I am know able to step back a minute and ask myself honestly how humble am I being.
"Dark nights"... yeah, those are definitely there as a test. Not a test to prove we will fail, but a test to give us the chance to suceed by exercising faith (and all the other basic concepts of living the gospel). I am grateful for having had good parents and an extended family where the mind set is basically a very loving "Failure is not an option" attitude as far as living the gospel and being faithful. I can't imagine how hard it must be for folks who have not had or do not have that sort of safety net in living the gospel and staying close to The Lord and the Church.
__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I really don't know, Palmon. I mean I recognize periods of darkness, and silence, but I've had so many things in my character, and my mind, and myself of which need improvement, that I've never gotten to the point where I couldn't find some excuse to why God might be letting me "go it alone" for a while.
When I was really really young, I had very strong spiritual experiences that made it clear to me that I'd be a fool to think that there was no God. My great challenge in life has been to conform to what I know exists already.
Also, more often than not I don't WANT to know what God wants me to do, because it usually involves learning painful things about the flaws in others. It hurts me to see others choose to ignore or willfully rebel against the Gospel, for example. Especially those I care about... and so learning they have problems--sometimes I just get mad at God that things can't be easier, or that those that I love so dearly should have to weather such afflictions or wander in darkness...
Understanding God's plan, has been a two-edge sword for me... but I am learning day by day to accept its wisdom--rather than Satan's more obvious taunts of, "Ah, but if you have your agency you can screw up at any time, and everyone you love is actively screwing as we speak..."
But I'm just musing train-of-consciousness here... tomorrow I'll probably think what I'm writing now is "crazy talk". It is difficult for me to nail-down the relationship between my thoughts, God's will, the motives behind the choices I make, and the consequences that follow.
--Ray
__________________
I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Ditto the gratitude for goodly parents, and not understanding how those without manage. It's all I can do to face some of my pains and fears knowing what I know... Without the gospel I could not feel such peace. Believe me... Through personal experience I KNOW the gospel has the answers I need for happiness in this life, and faith in God's promises to His children.
The saddest thing is when one who has become a lost sheep or prodigal son never comes to themself and realizes what they have done, and thus never makes up his mind to turn around and see his father with open arms while yet a great distance away.
__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I am just amazed at the courage of Mother Teresa. She has years of "dark nights", wherein she felt no response from the Lord. Yet, instead of abandoning her mission and her faith - she continues onward with just the hope. It, in a way,this gives me more desire to endure to the end. If she, who served so humbly her Lord and fellow man, felt "abandoned" for years yet still held onto hope - is it to much for me to cling onto hope during my periods of 'dark nights"?
There are many skeptics out there, but to have been a fly on the wall and see the response when this humble daughter of God arrived on the other side and had that long, dark night removed as she was provided with the missing parts of the gospel would have been glorious indeed.
__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I would characterize MOST people's experience with faith is what we call, 'Waiting upon the Lord'. The Israelites come to mind... wandering in the desert, living in slavery in Egypt or by some other nation... sure, one generation brought on the slavery, I suppose, but still, there were a lot of faithful who suffered and prayed in silence waiting for deliverance. In fact we're a very spoiled people, we mormons, to think that God will answer our prayers in an immediate sense, and yet He does! In fact I'd say that he's downright "chatty" with us mormons, and our missionaries who encourage people to seek answers to faith's challenges... Every month I am amazed at testimony after testimony in which faith is answered in miraculous means...
--Ray
__________________
I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
And yet there are some that are doing all that is expected and are wondering, "Why not me? Why are my prayers unanswered?". Possibly some that are reading comments on this forum right now.
"see the response when this humble daughter of God arrived on the other side and had that long, dark night removed as she was provided with the missing parts of the gospel would have been glorious indeed."
Palmon: I never quibble with anyone who claims they received no answer from God to their prayers... save perhaps to be all the more grateful for the answers I get...
Are you suggesting we should force god's hand somehow and demand he answer all our prayers equally? I am sure in God's sight, and with his infinite understanding of the infinite combinations of the infinite, He knows why he answers one man with an angel to shake the earth, and to another the trials of Job, and to another freezing to death pulling a handcart across the plains, and to another a burning in the bossom and to another...
--Ray
__________________
I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Sorry, I just skimmed this thread... but the topic of prayer and answers to prayer brought to mind a comment last Sunday by MrCoco relating to a talk that was given. The woman spoke of how her relatives were saved from a watery grave as they crossed the ocean to America, where the other ships were all sunk. She had such a strong testimony of prayer and the Gospel because of this, etc.... MrCoco basically said, "Doesn't she think the others had people praying for them as well? If her relatives' ship had sunk, would that mean the Church is NOT true? If that's all she's basing her testimony on, she doesn't have jack (ahem)."
I don't even know if this applies to the conversation...
__________________
Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
Coco, that thought pattern is indeed one of the areas I think people fall into a trap of denying truth and blaming God for everything bad that happens... essentially to follow the path of sleeping on one's sword and cursing God and dieing.
Of course, at the level of generality presented in your post, if that was the only thing / event this lady based her faith on, then indeed it would likely be insufficient, nor would it be based on every aspect necessary to stay true later. I think, though, it can be safely assumed that she had a strong faith in Christ before, and that this was actually a further confirming witness to her that God answers prayers. Sure, the other ships would have had people praying on them as well. But, how much faith had been exhibited before and during those callings out or were they cries out of desperation from those who essentially only remembered God and His teachings in time of crisis...
__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
No, if it seemed I am implying that. Just 'writing out loud". I am just amazed that she had the faith to continue onward. And I have hope that her experience helps (how? maybe knowing they are not alone? Maybe misery loves company) others stay true to what they have faith in, yet have not had the spiritual experiences that others seem have. I just can't help but think that those that are in the midst of their "dark nights" might feel very abandoned and alone.
It often seems hard to reconicle someone's prayers for safety, and their protections against others that died. I often heard that after the 9-11 towers. People spoke of promptings that prevented them from being there, or on the planes. Others were angry in that it implied those that died weren't loved. Sometimes, I wonder if promptings some receive and others don't seems to are not like when Christ appeared in the America's. Many were not able to hear or understand the still small voice or desern what it was. And these were the good people that had been saved. Sometimes, I recognize a prompting after the fact, such as in "If only I had followed that feeling" (a few times I do follow). Also, speaking up for the sister, aren't we suppose to recognize God's hand in all things? If she prayed for their safety and then refused to acknowledge God's hand in it, wouldn't she then be an ungratiful daughter? I know, she was telling of things that happened before she was born - but, even so, if she knew they had been saved and yet refused to acknowledge God's hand...
Maybe we're all to find purpose in our own suffering. The Lord does not set us up to fail and lose hope, sometimes we manage to do that all on our own. It's sometimes difficult to know what that purpose is, but knowing there is one gives us that little glimmer of hope and hope turns to faith. But maybe, I am only speaking for myself.
Some of us live in the dark night all of our lives. We serve missions and serve in callings. Maybe we have a slight glimmer every 20 years or so. Or maybe not, they are so slight it's hard to tell. Our leaders might wait for us to receive a revelation in order to help them make a decision they have to make, but sorry buddy it doesn't happen. But it's not hard to understand why we keep going, trying to do right. It is because we don't want to live in the real darkness of hopelessness and sin.
It is too disturbing and counter-productive to decide to be an athiest and slide down the path of least resistance. We desire to have eternal families, and to live in the light of the approval of God. So we try to garnish our thoughts with virtue unceasingly so that we might have strong confidence when we, as all humans must do eventually, stand in the presence of the Lord.
Although I don't have the same strength that Mother Teresa had, it's not really so beyond the pale for me to understand where her commitment came from if it wasn't the distant memory of feeling the love of God. It came because to contemplate a universe with no God, or a careless God, is too terrible to live with.
