I've decided that I won't post negative stuff about Romney in the thread I created for stories about him. So anyway, according to this editorial Romney is a pornographer. This is interesting coming from a church owned paper. I know there are those who believe that the church would, if it could, come out in open support of Romney. But articles like this make me doubt that.
-- Edited by arbilad at 19:24, 2007-07-15
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
There was a related discussion about this same issue, but regarding a different person, at T&S. It was more about Mariott himself and the post was subsequently shut down since it violated the blog's charter. Some of the posts had tried to explain that the issue is a little more complicated than that, that there were corporate legal issues outside the realm of control of Brother Mariott and he was required to comply.
I had a Bishop who was a big time entrepreneur who had a dozen or so restaraunts that were open on Sunday (in Utah mind you), yet his arrogant holier-than-thou teenage son once asked why my sister worked on Sundays; "Was she going inactive?!"
This kind of hypocricy among uber-rich Latter day Saints really doesn't bother me anymore( ie. making money with questionable means but distancing oneself from the means and soaking in the cash). In fact I find it a source of amusement. I trust that the Lord in the end will give all of us a fair shake and justice will be satisfied.
Before we jump to the conclusion that Mitt Romney was the guy who phoned in orders for pornography, let's remember that his was a part-time position (not as in four hours a day, as in very little time at all), and the issue of television channels available in the hotels may well have not come up among share holder meetings.
He had his own businesses to run without micromanaging a friend's business.
In Mitt Romney, we have a rare opportunity to elect someone who has real-world business experience as opposed to a lifetime politician. Not only did he run businesses, he made them highly successful by recognizing the challenges. But such men with business experience can always be dismissed if the criteria is to scrutinize every action taken on every firm for which they served on a board of directors, even if every one of those actions are legal as seems to be the case with Marriot.
Randy, no one was questioning the legality of it, at least according to man's laws. And I don't think that anyone made the accusation that he was phoning in the orders himself. Being on a board means that you help provide leadership. If he had no time to spend on it, he shouldn't have accepted the position. If he did have even a little time, then I think that pornography is something worth standing up against. As the article said, many people got their start on pornography by seeing it in a hotel room. If Romney didn't think that it was worth spending his limited time on this issue, what does he think is important to spend time on? We're not talking micromanaging, such as determining how many towels go into each room. We're talking about at least taking a stand against a great evil, instead of taking it in stride. My main question about Romney is, what does he think is worth taking a stand against? We don't need a good businessman as leader of our country. We need a great statesman who is willing to take a stand on the important issues. What issues does Romney think are worthy of taking a stand for?
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
I've known about the Marriot situation for years and have been disturbed by it. I don't understand why the Marriots could not stop it. The explanations I have read have been unconvincing in my opinion. But it is also unclear, in my opinion, what Romney knew or could have done. Boards in many cases do very little other than rubber stamp decision already made by company management. Corporate docs require them but their effectiveness varies from business to business.
Do we know that Romney didn't try to do anything about it? What if there was a majority vote thing going on?
I've wondered about situations like this... like on Judgment Day, all of a sudden it becomes so clear that they sold their soul... or, it really doesn't harm their salvation much after all...
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
If other hotel chains can remain profitable and porn-free, then why not Marriott? I'm sure that the clean chains also have considerations that are "a little more complicated."
If you think the most important aspect of our executive branch is to deal with all the issues from a "successful businessman" approach--maximizing profit for those with vested interest--then by all means, vote for a successful businessman.
If you think the most important aspect of our executive branch is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and lead the fight to stop the erosion of our civil liberties, then I suggest there is a better choice.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
Aw, crap. I flick boogies at Al Gore because his mansion uses five to ten times as much energy as my house does. I guess I gotta flick one at Romney too.
I'd prefer that Romney could point to the letter, or press release, or meeting he had, where he made his position against Marriott quite clear at the time. Even if it wasn't his job, even if it made no difference. I'd prefer Al Gore walk his talk too.
Well, again, I gotta look at Romney as someone who has lived under the public's microscope for over a decade, and all we can find on him is a weak dotted-line to Marriott hotel pornography, a stream of dog poo from Ontario to Massachusets, and a record of changing his opinions. He's still leaps and bounds above everyone else, IMO.
Mitt Romney should probably also have gone down to the grocery store in his neighborhood and warned them that he would no longer patronize their store if they continued to sell beer.
Perhaps each of us should do that as well.
However, that's not in my mind a disqualifying charge.
I'll close my participation in this thread by quoting Charles Mitchell, an Evangelical who hates pornography, because he writes better than I do:
"The stuff that is available in hotel rooms these days--not to mention on the Internet--makes me sick. But to seriously argue it's within the purview of one member of a for-profit Board of Directors to champion such an issue evinces a total misunderstanding of directors' role. Lay boards, by definition, are not involved in day-to-day operations. Members typically have their own firms to manage--that is what they are immersed in day-to-day. What they do is come together periodicially, get deluged in information, and make extremely high-level decisions. They don't ask if the scrambled eggs are any good, the elevator mirrors are clean, or the TVs are porn-free. It's just not their job, no matter how important non-runny eggs, non-streaky mirrors, or non-disgusting programming may be to them."
Ok, Randy, so what decisions does a board member make? And if pornography in hotel rooms is not worth making a stand against, then what does Romney make a stand for? What issue is he willing to champion as president? Because it seems that every time I bring up something about Romney, I'm told that you can't win everything, so you have to choose your battles. Choosing your battles makes sense, but capitulating on everything and standing for nothing doesn't. I have yet to be shown what issue or issues Romney is making a stand for. A "go along to get along" president, who doesn't want to make any waves but just wants to make sure that the bureaucracy runs efficiently, is not my idea of a good president. Our liberties are being seriously encroached in this country. I would rather have someone willing to fight for my constitutional rights than someone who would make sure that the trains run on time. Even if the person who is willing to fight for my rights is not likely to succeed. BTW, runny eggs will not put your immortal soul in danger. Pornography will. I think that was a very poor comparison made in the quote you provided.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Well, maybe it's sort of like seeing the person smoking and go calling him on it... we don't do that as LDSs, because it makes us look "holier-than-thou" right? We just "love" them out of it. Maybe he was showing the board his unconditional love.
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
Maybe we should tax it like we do cigarettes. With the amount of profit it generates, we could probably pay off the national debt and balance the budget by the time Pres. Bush leaves office. While lowering personal tax at the same time. Everybody wins, except for the pornographers, of course.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
They're proposing a huge tax on porn in San Francisco. I imagine that would pretty much double the city's annual budget. And Ray, given that you don't consider pornography to be an issue worth standing up against, what issues do you hope that Romney will stand up for? What do you hope that he will accomplish while in office? 'Cause it seems to me that he doesn't stand up for anything. This would have been a non-issue if he had even said to the board something like "If it were up to me, I'd get rid of porn in all our hotel rooms."
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Here's another thing that I thought of: the office of president of the US is similar in many ways to being on a company's board. You don't have time to handle every detail of how the entity you oversee runs. I think it's fair to say that the way he acted on a company's board would be very similar to how he'd act as president. The president doesn't necessarily have to attack the issue of pornography directly, of course. But he could work with the congress to rein in the supreme court and get them out of the business of reading new rights into the constitution. There is no right in the constitution to pornography. If it were left up to the states and local governments to determine whether or not to allow it, that would be ideal.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Well, Arbi, if that's the case, which candidates besides Romney even has the sort of experience in leading genuinely productive and profitable companies?
I would think that if it's such a huge deal that he be a tyrant in the boardroom, then you might as well acknowledge that his experience there at all says something towards his value as a candidate...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
HSR does the following: * When making hotel arrangements, doesn't even think to ask whether adult entertainment is available in the rooms. * Shops at Wal-Mart, thus patronizing a store that sells prostitute clothes to 8 yr old girls. * Shops at Target, thus supporting an organization that does not allow the Salvation Army on its premises. * Hasn't bothered to check out all the stocks his IRA mutual fund owns. For all I know, it's all in Playboy and Coors. * Has not voted in any stockholder matters, ever. (I'm not on any boards, but get ballots probably 6 times /yr) * Buys gasoline, and thus lines the coffers of the house of Saud, and probably a bunch of worse groups.
There's more, but I think those are all I can come up with.