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Post Info TOPIC: Guiliani's Twelve Commitments


Profuse Pontificator

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Guiliani's Twelve Commitments


I know I am our resident Fred Thompson nut, but I have to admit that I like the sound of these 12 commitments from Rudy:

1. I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists' War on Us.
2. I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation.
3. I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending.
4. I will cut taxes and reform the tax code.
5. I will impose accountability on Washington.
6. I will lead America towards energy independence.
7. I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions.
8. I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children.
9. I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges.
10. I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
11. I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents.
12. I will expand America's involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world. 

So, what do you think?  No matter who the Republican nominee is, I think this is a spectacular set of goals for the next President.

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I think they are outstanding.

What in his history demonstrates that these commitments are more than words?
I know he did a great job with New York.  I also know that he committed to three women to be faithful...  No, his affairs with women other than his wife does not mean he can't be a great president - but it does speak to his trustworthiness.

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Profuse Pontificator

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He did reduce the size of the City government and reduce taxes as Mayor. He also drastically reduced crime and cleaned up the city--removing the smut shops and so forth. The history he has in cleaning up and fixing the mess that was NYC gives him some credibility as a politician who clean up the mess in Washington.

I'll admit that he is a nasty SOB. I don't like him that much myself, and Mrs. Shiz really hates him. But the ideas are good ones.

Hmmmm...maybe Thompson/Guiliani......yeah, that's the ticket.

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Head Chef

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1. I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists' War on Us.
That's a nice sentiment, but what action will he specifically take? For instance, will airport screeners finally be able to give extra attention to people of mideastern origin?

2. I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation.
Again, I agree with the goal, but how is he going to accomplish the goal? Even McCain says he is anti illegal immigration, even after authoring that horrible amnesty bill.

3. I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending.
This is also a good goal, but where are the specifics? Pretty much every presidential candidate for a long time has claimed to be for fiscal discipline.

4. I will cut taxes and reform the tax code.
A very good goal. Let's start by eliminating the income tax.

5. I will impose accountability on Washington.
This is vague, and I'm not really sure what he means by it. Are we finally going to do away with the plethora of government agencies that, in practice, are answerable to no one?

6. I will lead America towards energy independence.
I fail to see how this is government's job. We as consumers need to demand such products. The government's role is not to regulate the energy economy, whether it is to move it in the direction of energy independence or even (or especially) price regulation. This should be solely and completely a private industry thing.


7. I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions.
Again, not the governments job. It sounds like he's advocating something similar to what Romney did in Massachusetts.

8. I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children.
This one is a smokescreen to take people's attention away from his pro-choice position. After all, decreasing abortions is good, right? Of course, what he doesn't say is that he's for legal abortion. So, this is a good goal, but it's hypocrisy on his part.


9. I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges.
Another very good goal. But considering that he believes that somehow the founders wrote a right for abortion into the constitution, I have a tough time believing him.


10. I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

I am very much against this. The federal government should not be controlling local communities, even if it's for preparedness against terrorist attacks or natural disasters.

11. I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents.
School should be fixed at the local level, not at the federal level. The federal government's involvement in education has been a disaster.


12. I will expand America's involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world.
While the US cannot ignore the world economy, we should make sure that we fix the problems at home first. For one thing, that means getting government's fingers out of industry's pie. We could bring manufacturing home again if businesses could afford to do business in the US. Manufacturing is real wealth. We're up a creek without a paddle if anything disrupts international shipping.





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Senior Bucketkeeper

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Rhetoric to get elected. Just like the rest of them.

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Profuse Pontificator

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I understand the cynical sentiment, Mirk, but what then do you base your vote upon?

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Profuse Pontificator

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A few responses to Arbi:

On point #1: that is just code for continuing the war in Iraq, IMO.

On point #2: Guiliani has come out strongly for enforcement first. He says we need a good fence NOW.

On #3 and #5: Guiliani has said he will use the same methods he used in NYC--attrition to reduce the size of the Federal bureaucracy, and real quantifiable goals to measure how agencies are performing. He had great success in this in NYC.

On #6 and #7: I understand your sentiment that this is not the guvmint's concern, but let's face it, the government is involved in these things; indeed that involvement is part of the problem. Rudy says he will get rid of some of the regulation that makes building a new refinery or a new nuclear plant so difficult, and also implement reforms that will make healthcare more affordable and more free-market based. I really like the things he says in this area.

On #10: I would argue with you that the Feds don't have a constitutional role to play in local protection from terrorism. Isn't one of the things the Const. guarantees to the states that it will help them in the event of foreign invasion? And locals can't always bale themselves out of natural disasters. You think LA or NO could have handled Katrina without Federal assistance? This is a legitimate role for Federal govt.

On #11: Wouldn't school choice be a major restoration of power back to the local level in education?

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Senior Bucketkeeper

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fear of shiz wrote:

 but what then do you base your vote upon?



Honestly...  I am having a harder and harder time doing that EVERY year/election... even our small town politics is becoming increasingly difficult to find the truth of...

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Understander of unimportant things

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I have to agree with mirk on it being rhetoric. I have nothing to base it on other than a gut feeling, though.

One doesn't have to lay the whole plan out to public scrutiny, but there should at least be the hint that there is something backing a platform besides "vote for me cuz I'm popular or cuz I'm a good politician or cuz I'm experienced."

Right now, I don't think anyone in either party, really has much of a plan beyond winning the primary. Not even Mitt, though some of what he says does have the ring of long term strategy thought behind it.

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Wise and Revered Master

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What about the 2nd amendment?

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Profuse Pontificator

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What about it?

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Profuse Pontificator

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Giuliani fleshes out the 12 commitments here:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDA1ZGZmOGU1OTE1ZmQ4NDE5YzQyYzM3NzFjYjc1YzU=

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Wise and Revered Master

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I didn't see the second amendment anywhere in his 12 suggestions. Frankly, New Yorks performance when he was mayor and after regarding the 2nd amendment have been chilling.

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Profuse Pontificator

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From Rudy's website:

Rudy Giuliani is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. When he was Mayor of a city suffering an average of almost 2000 murders a year, he protected people by getting illegal handguns out of the hands of criminals. As a result, shootings fell by 72% and the murder rate was cut by two-thirds. But Rudy understands that what works in New York doesnt necessarily work in Mississippi or Montana.

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Profuse Pontificator

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Did Giuliani say how he got the guns out of the hands of criminals?  
http://gunowners.org/pres08/giuliani.htm    Excerpts:

"If the new Rudy Giuliani in fact supports state's rights in the area of gun control, it is a dramatic shift from the policies he has been advocating for over a decade. "
Disarming citizens because they live in a high crime area is taking away the most effective means of self-defense from the people who need it most. Creating mandatory victims is no way to fight a crime problem. If Giuliani's gun control agenda was really limited 'only' to big cities, that would be disturbing enough. But the record shows that the Mayor continually tried to export his gun control agenda to the rest of the nation.  The new Giuliani of state's rights simply does not square with the Mayor of the '90s. In 1993, before even being sworn in as mayor, Giuliani met with then-President Clinton at the White House to discuss national gun registration. Giuliani supported the Brady bill, which had recently passed, but argued that it didn't go far enough.  The President, largely crediting Giuliani for the idea, enthusiastically sent Attorney General Janet Reno off to develop a gun licensing and registration system.

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Wise and Revered Master

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Bingo!

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Hot Air Balloon

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It could be pandering, but I like the commitment pattern. biggrin.gif This is a neat way of approaching politics. I wish all politicians had to do something like this.

--Ray

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1. I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists' War on Us.
That's a nice sentiment, but what action will he specifically take? For instance, will airport screeners finally be able to give extra attention to people of mideastern origin?


There's not much he can do with so many being PC about that issue.  What do you think the reaction would be if he promoted the start to ethnic profiling?


2. I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation.
Again, I agree with the goal, but how is he going to accomplish the goal? Even McCain says he is anti illegal immigration, even after authoring that horrible amnesty bill.

3. I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending.
This is also a good goal, but where are the specifics? Pretty much every presidential candidate for a long time has claimed to be for fiscal discipline.

4. I will cut taxes and reform the tax code.
A very good goal. Let's start by eliminating the income tax.


Sure, they're good goals and he probably has every desire to accomplish them.  However, he does not have the power alone and frankly, I don't see any of it happening with Congress.


6. I will lead America towards energy independence.
I fail to see how this is government's job. We as consumers need to demand such products. The government's role is not to regulate the energy economy, whether it is to move it in the direction of energy independence or even (or especially) price regulation. This should be solely and completely a private industry thing.

Public pressure makes this a government issue.  Energy independence is also a foreign policy issue which is a government concern and a constitutional one at that.  That's not to say I believe government should regulate the energy economy but this is not just about economics.  The pressure from too much of the public and our reliance on foreign oil make it virtually impossible for a presidential candidate to ignore this issue and/or state the government should not be involved.


7. I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions.
Again, not the governments job. It sounds like he's advocating something similar to what Romney did in Massachusetts.


This not enough information to come to that conclusion.  He doesn't mention mandating coverage of some form, a pillar to the Massachusetts plan.


8. I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children.
This one is a smokescreen to take people's attention away from his pro-choice position. After all, decreasing abortions is good, right? Of course, what he doesn't say is that he's for legal abortion. So, this is a good goal, but it's hypocrisy on his part.


A person can be pro-choice but not for abortions.  This was Romney's stance at one time.  Guiliani is for the woman's legal right to abortion but it is not conflicting to want a reduction in abortions and thus an increase in adoptions.  No, I don't support that position but can see where he is coming from on it and feel he can have the position without being a hypocrite.



10. I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

I am very much against this. The federal government should not be controlling local communities, even if it's for preparedness against terrorist attacks or natural disasters.

Again, there is public pressure to do this.  Who is going to be blamed for lack of preparedness if a natural disaster or terrorist attack devastates a community or region?  Also, it is the government's responsibility to protect its citizens to a certain level especially against terrorism but on a national scope.


12. I will expand America's involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world.
While the US cannot ignore the world economy, we should make sure that we fix the problems at home first. For one thing, that means getting government's fingers out of industry's pie. We could bring manufacturing home again if businesses could afford to do business in the US. Manufacturing is real wealth. We're up a creek without a paddle if anything disrupts international shipping.



This goal can best be accomplished by not handicapping the economy through regulations.  The government should be able to multi-task and has to - so, while we are fixing things at home, we can be involved in our positioning in the world economy.  Problems abroad can become problems at home. 

Manufacturing will not move here unless it is profitable for manufacturers to do so and that doesn't look likely.  No, I don't like it but how is that going to be changed? 


Guiliani's commitments are mostly good.  However, the obstacles he faces are public pressure and Congress.  He may desire to accomplish these items but he can't do it alone.

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 13:12, 2007-06-14

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Understander of unimportant things

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I must say, this is indeed an interesting discussion, even for someone who normally does not like political discussions.

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1. I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists' War on Us. too vague to be useful
2. I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation. You won't have the political capital or mandate or support of congress to do that
3. I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending. Hah! No you won't. If you really wanted to, you wouldn't have pandered enough to get elected,
4. I will cut taxes and reform the tax code. Reform generally means make much more complicated. Why can't you politicians wait to cut taxes till I am making money? I'm living on student loans right now and these tax cuts don't benefit me. By the time I start making an MD's salary there will be general tax increases. I don't get to have any fun.
5. I will impose accountability on Washington. Hah!
6. I will lead America towards energy independence. Federal funding of basic research has been slashed. Grants are hard to come by. Increase that (and not just fictiously in a state of the union speech) and you might accomplish this. Of course, that would mean a tax increase or more debt (fiscal irresponsibility) which you have already pledged not to do
7. I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions. You don't have enough clout to accomplish that. Clinton might actually be able to do it, but not you
8. I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children. How will you decrease the mountains of beaurocracy that couples must go through in order to adopt without hurting the already lax standards that allow too many children to be abused and lost
9. I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges. Finally, something I think you could do, though you won't.
10. I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters. while decreasing taxes? No way
11. I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents. though a favorite pet issue of some, I don't think school vouchers and charter schools will solve the problem. They will only concentrate it
12. I will expand America's involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world.Free trade agreements? Easing visa restrictions on highly trained individuals? how?


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Profuse Pontificator

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Giuliani's record on item #8:

"Rudy Giuliani dramatically increased the number of adoptions in the New York City system as mayor. Adoptions skyrocketed 133% over his eight year tenure compared to the eight years before he took office. It was a clear priority of his administration, beginning with the establishment of the Administration for Children's Services, the first child protection agency in New York City history that reported directly to the mayor. He streamlined the adoption process, slashing red tape and promoting adoptions through innovative initiatives such as "Adoption Saturdays" where family courts held special sessions dedicated to matching children with loving homes."

Source: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DavidVitterTheodoreBOlson/2007/06/11/rudys_adoption_agenda_and_proven_effectiveness


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Profuse Pontificator

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I keep trying to resist his appeal, but reports like this really draw me back to Guiliani:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDMxYTA5ZTFmNmYwMWJjYzM5MjZlODVkNjgxYzAyMjc=

"when Rudy gets going on an issue you agree with him on hes really, really good. Maybe unequaled. And its possible to imagine him, in some future debate, mopping the floor with a liberal challenger the way Reagan obliterated Carter and Mondale.

If Rudy gets the nomination and thats still a huge if we are likely to see him hone in on the angles and issues that separate the sacred cows and orthodoxies of the Democratic base from the common-sense views of most Americans. And years of tangling with the New York Times and one of the countrys most combatively liberal political cultures have conditioned his instincts to go for the jugular."

Read the whole thing.

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