Saved by Selfishness

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Saved by Selfishness

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Wanting to be saved is not selfish unless your main motivation is to have unlimited sex with an unlimited number of celestialized Victoria's Secret type wives.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cocobeem wrote:

Wanting to be saved is not selfish unless your main motivation is to have unlimited sex with an unlimited number of celestialized Victoria's Secret type wives.

weirdface

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

In another thread, Cat mentioned the two great commandments: We're to love God and to love our neighbors as ourselves. In my interpretation, that implies that we are commanded to love ourselves. Which means that we should want the best for ourselves, and that includes wanting to be saved. I don't think that's selfish.

From another perspective, my greatest desire in life is to return home and be with my loved ones forever. I believe that is my Father's desire for me as well. Salvation is a requirement to get there. So it would follow that I want salvation for myself. I don't think that's selfish.

From another perspective, salvation is a gift offered by my Savior's incomprehensible love and sacrifice. I want to honor him by accepting that gift. I don't think that's selfish.

When we are judged, and Christ evaluates the desires of our hearts, I'm pretty sure He'll know who has sought salvation righteously and who has merely said, "Lord, Lord, have we not done all these things in thy name..."

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

mirkwood wrote:

Mirkwood you are a wonder... You REALLY make me laugh sometimes... even without saying a word!

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) wrote a work entitled "On the Love of God." In it, he talks about several stages or degrees of love for God. The first is based on selfishness: we love God because he blesses us, or helps us in times of trouble. We love Him "for our own sake". But this is still a good thing, Bernard says, because all love of God is from God.

The next stage is when we start to love God for God's sake. God has become known to us through experience, and we recognize that He is Good. We "have tasted and known how sweet the Lord is." It becomes easier to keep commandments and to love our neighbor. We love God for who He is.

The highest degree Bernard describes is the love of self for God's sake. Bernard describes this stage as something that are rare and only for a moment. They are the moments when we "lose ourselves" and are "of one mind with God, our wills in one accord with God."

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

That makes so much sense to me... idea

Thanks Shiz... I'd say I am still a crossover disciple... I've felt all the stages... For me I came closest to that highest degree of love as I held a brand new child directly from Father's presence in my arms... those were "lose myself pure love moments" in each case... There have been a few others, usually involving my family, and/or the temple.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

Cocobeem wrote:

Wanting to be saved is not selfish unless your main motivation is to have unlimited sex with an unlimited number of celestialized Victoria's Secret type wives.

Call it what you will, sounds like heaven to me! biggrin

If you aren't wanting to be saved, what would drive you forward then to be saved?

Mosiah 4:27 ...And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.

1 Cor. 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

Val, perhaps you should become a fundamentalist Muslim. I hear they get 72 virgins if they blow themselves up.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

That's up from 7 which I heard at EdWeek 2 yrs. ago. Must be needing some more incentive...

Seriously, val's picture really creeps me out. Who is that guy?

Anyway, I don't see wanting to save yourself as selfish. I mean, if you do the opposite, it's like a total insult, isn't it? Like, "Yeah, thanks and all, but I'm just not interested." weirdface

It's gratitude, not selfishness.

mirk- You're speechless??? Speechless??? Come on! Take the bait! Tell us what you really think!

Euphrasie · Senior Bucketkeeper

The avatar is the bad guy from "V for Vendetta," I think. Reminds me of the Joker.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

Euphrasie wrote:

The avatar is the bad guy from "V for Vendetta," I think. Reminds me of the Joker.

BAD GUY?!?!?! weirdface

No way, V was the good guy working to defeat evil. Great flick, great message.
"Remember, remember, the 5th of November..."
It is a mask of Guy Fawkes who once tried to blow up Parliament. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
V for Vendetta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Whew!!! At least it's not actually you, val.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

fear of shiz wrote:

Val, perhaps you should become a fundamentalist Muslim. I hear they get 72 virgins if they blow themselves up.

Nope, I like being LDS, I want to become a god in my own right. Then maybe have a vacation villa, say like in Kenneth Brannagh's adaptation of "Much Ado About Nothing". A beautiful Tuscan villa on the hill with vineyards and all the Victoria Secret wives wearing the billowing cotton dresses singing and frolicing. Great movie, hilarious, beautiful scenery, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Ado_About_Nothing_%28film%29

Euphrasie · Senior Bucketkeeper

Valhalla wrote:

Euphrasie wrote:

The avatar is the bad guy from "V for Vendetta," I think. Reminds me of the Joker.

BAD GUY?!?!?!

No way, V was the good guy working to defeat evil. Great flick, great message.
"Remember, remember, the 5th of November..."
It is a mask of Guy Fawkes who once tried to blow up Parliament. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
V for Vendetta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta

Oh. Whoops. I've never actually seen it, so...

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Valhalla wrote:

"Remember, remember, the 5th of November..."

Always... it's my anniversary! biggrin

-- Edited by PollyAnna at 23:41, 2007-06-07

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Hey Val, what if salvation has nothing to do with your ideal? Would you settle for (as Joseph Smith put it) "Everlasting Burnings" with your one wife you married here in this life instead?

Oh yeah, and V is not exactly the ideal goodguy... he's more or less a terrorist...

--Ray

-- Edited by rayb at 09:37, 2007-06-08

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Valhalla wrote:

I want to become a god in my own right. Then maybe have a...beautiful Tuscan villa on the hill with vineyards and all the Victoria Secret wives wearing the billowing cotton dresses singing and frolicing.

Singing and frolicking? doh

Um Val? I assume that you are at least partly joking... but I just wanted to log that I find this kind of public fantasizing offensive. Even if you said it in jest, it isn't funny to me.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

rayb wrote:

Hey Val, what if salvation has nothing to do with your ideal? Would you settle for (as Joseph Smith put it) "Everlasting Burnings" with your one wife you married here in this life instead?

Oh yeah, and V is not exactly the ideal goodguy... he's more or less a terrorist...

--Ray

-- Edited by rayb at 09:37, 2007-06-08

Well, Ray, I don't know what my ideal is as I don't know at this point what Celestial glory and world will be. OTOH, if I get to the point of becoming a god, I would like to think of having the throne room, but unless I am in audience or some such, I would like to think that I could hang out at my fishing cabin should I want. Why should it be a lot different than here, we are allowed to make choices, I just don't see it being some cookie cutter thing. If we can become a god, I think we can make choices for ourselves, the only limit being righteousness.

Not sure what you mean by everlasting burnings, if you mean by bad things, no way. Nothing less than the prize. We are joint-heirs with Christ, meaning I can inherit the same as my Master, by His grace. I will not stay to burn with my wife, she is coming with me, I will not settle for less. If she is not with me, it is by her own conscious choice and not for lack of my own effort. Unless we are there in the CK together, she would not be mine anyway, so to me that would be a moot question.

So, George Washington and the like were terrorists? Moshe Dayan? Helmet Huebner? Pick anyone you will. Captain Moroni? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. As Benjamin Franklin stated "The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants and patriots at times." V fought an oppressive government, gave his life for freedom. Were it not for killing, war would just be a lot of pushing and shoving. Unfortunately, death and violence are the most common by-products in the struggle for freedom and liberty.

If need be, I am would be willing to die, but as Patton said, that is the other guy's job to do.

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

bokbadok wrote:

Valhalla wrote:

I want to become a god in my own right. Then maybe have a...beautiful Tuscan villa on the hill with vineyards and all the Victoria Secret wives wearing the billowing cotton dresses singing and frolicing.

Singing and frolicking?

Um Val? I assume that you are at least partly joking... but I just wanted to log that I find this kind of public fantasizing offensive. Even if you said it in jest, it isn't funny to me.

Yes, it was said in jest, sorry if it was not obvious, and it is not fantasizing. Whether it is offensive or not is your issue should you choose to be offended at a jest. I thought it funny.

Why do you find it offensive? confused

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

From another thread, val said-- "One of the reasons I came from the other side of the river, too much like a Relief Society less all fuzzy-wuzzies, sunshine, daisies, and kittens."

Sounds a bit like billowing cotton dresses, singing, etc... hmm...