Taking a head count

Convert · Veteran Member

Taking a head count

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Okay Convert, help a brother out.

What is the source of the "intel"?
Who is the MSM?
What will they be attacking and why?
What are ME's and the "cells" to which you refer?
Specifically, what are the indicators which lead you and your friends to predict that attacks are imminent?

Many more questions, but this is a good place to start.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

Good questions, Roper.

I believe I have read this exact statement elsewhere so I do not believe it is original to Convert. It is probably one of those statements making its way around the internet without any foundation.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Sounds like propaganda from paramilitary militia groups to me... with the line referencing the prophets thrown in.

What's an LEO? Leveraged Executive Officer? Loud Employment Office? Lush Enriched Oxygen? Latent Everyday Occurence? Light Emitting Ode (get it? LED is Light Emitting Di-ode... he he he

)?

arbilad · Head Chef

I believe that this conversation might be more appropriate in another area, such as General Political Discussions. Convert, do you wish me to move it?

Organist · Senior Member

Muslim Extremists might want to attack, but this claim of Mexicans trained south of the border just waiting to come into the country is and attack is a bit far fetched. This sounds too much like Red Dawn.

The stakes of Zion in my area have been taking an inventory of everyone's food, water, and other supplies. I thought this was in relation to the several tornados and ice storms we have had this last year, which knocked out power for a week in most places, but perhaps this renewed emphasis is related to something more sinister than natural disasters.

I do have a year's supply of water (I later found out that the church now recommends only 14 days supply per person on provident living website). I'm getting the food in a 1.5 weeks when I'm done with my tests.

Convert · Veteran Member

arbilad wrote:

I believe that this conversation might be more appropriate in another area, such as General Political Discussions. Convert, do you wish me to move it?

I don't know where it belongs so move it if you see fit.

Convert · Veteran Member

Roper wrote:

Okay Convert, help a brother out.

What is the source of the "intel"?
Who is the MSM?
What will they be attacking and why?
What are ME's and the "cells" to which you refer?
Specifically, what are the indicators which lead you and your friends to predict that attacks are imminent?

Many more questions, but this is a good place to start.

Source of info? Some open source, most is not.
MSM = Main Steam Media
Targets. To many to list. Some high profile, but expect suicide bombing such as we see in Bagdad.
ME's are Middle Eastern (Roper I thought you would know that)
Cells are terrorist cells already established in the U.S.
Indicators? Intel that I can only share an overview of.

Convert · Veteran Member

Cat Herder wrote:

Sounds like propaganda from paramilitary militia groups to me... with the line referencing the prophets thrown in.

What's an LEO? Leveraged Executive Officer? Loud Employment Office? Lush Enriched Oxygen? Latent Everyday Occurence? Light Emitting Ode (get it? LED is Light Emitting Di-ode... he he he )?

Guess again. By the way a LEO is a Law Enforcement Officer.

Look, it isn't my job to twist your arm to believe anything you don't want to believe. You're getting another heads up. Take or leave it, its up to you.

Convert · Veteran Member

Muslim Extremists might want to attack, but this claim of Mexicans trained south of the border just waiting to come into the country is and attack is a bit far fetched.Which is one of the reasons for our frustration. Its information like this that isn't getting out. This sounds too much like Red Dawn.Does doesn't it. Can't help that as it isn't anything I can control. The stakes of Zion in my area have been taking an inventory of everyone's food, water, and other supplies. I thought this was in relation to the several tornados and ice storms we have had this last year, which knocked out power for a week in most places, but perhaps this renewed emphasis is related to something more sinister than natural disasters. Being prepared means you're prepared for anything.

Glad to see that you folks are getting it together. 1500 down, 100 million to go. Well, its a start anyway.

Convert · Veteran Member

There is one source of info that you folks should keep up with. These are good folks. Because of their contacts they report the inside story that is never released to the media. They also stay on top of a lot of info.

I'm not affiliated with these guys, although we do share.

oops, forgot to provide the link
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/

-- Edited by Convert at 11:08, 2007-05-31

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Convert wrote:

Guess again. By the way a LEO is a Law Enforcement Officer.

Look, it isn't my job to twist your arm to believe anything you don't want to believe. You're getting another heads up. Take or leave it, its up to you.

Actually, I got it the first time around before making the post... I'm just wondering if the note being passed on was meaning we should be ready and prepared to take part in giving a hand to the LEO's by exercising our entitled citizen rights to be vigilante deputies...

As to the ME's, well, I live in an area that has perhaps one of the largest concentrations and population of U.S. born and naturalized citizens and legal non-citizens of middle eastern ethnicity in the nation. Not a whole lot of connection to illegal Mexicans (by the way, does that mean they are people who are not legal Mexicans, Mexicans who are criminals, or illegal immigrants to the US who are Mexican citizens, none of the above, or all the above?).

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

From the website provided by Convert:

The Northeast Intelligence Network: Who we areUntil that horrific day in September 2001, individuals and businesses relied on our government to handle the threat of terrorist attacks. Few businesses and individuals believed that they could fall victim to attacks by terrorists on their own soil, believing that such attacks only happened in other, far-away countries. It is a fair assessment that the majority of those within our government, law enforcement agencies, businesses and citizens were caught by surprise by the attacks of 9/11. Since then, the general public has been receiving numerous and varied warnings issued by our government, and everyone seems to be waiting for the next "event" to occur. Based on the complex social and political events that have taken place over the last few years, many people have become less certain about the accuracy of the information that is being provided to them, whether through the corporate media or directly through government sources. The Northeast Intelligence Network is comprised of a network of veteran, licensed professional investigators, analysts, military affairs specialists and researchers who have combined their resources in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States by Islamic terrorists. Team members volunteers their time and combine their expertise to fill a specific niche in the private sector to research, investigate and analyze potential terrorist threats that continue to face the United States. Each professional member of the Northeast Intelligence Network excels in their various fields of expertise and has a proven track record of successes. Our Mission:The mission of the Northeast Intelligence Network consists of the following:="left">To use our heavily screened and well-qualified informational and operational assets to investigate potential terrorist threats which threaten the safety and security of our nation, our neighborhoods, and our families. ="left">To provide accurate and well-sourced information via our web site to educate our site visitors to the true nature of the terrorist threats we face. ="left">To provide accurate information about incidents, events and potential terrorist threats by conducting on-site investigation by our qualified personnel. ="left">When appropriate, offer relevant political commentary and occasional satire where it serves to illustrate a defect in our security and defense against future attacks. ="left">Through a fee-based subscription to the HQ INTEL-ALERT Private Intelligence Report, we offer specific information about a variety of issues, events and security matters that we feel are too sensitive to place in the public domain. Although some of the information contained in our newsletter is obtained directly from confidential sources within various government agencies, we never violate any laws prohibiting the unlawful dissemination of classified government information. The cost of this newsletter helps us to underwrite the expenses involved in conducting on-site investigations.
Uh yeah, sure...

historian · Senior Member

Thank you, Convert

Sometimes we need reminders that preparations are important.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Convert: And if none of this happens this year, will you be disappointed? Will you apologize?

--Ray

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I can't wait until Thunderdome gets built!!!!

arbilad · Head Chef

rayb wrote:

Convert: And if none of this happens this year, will you be disappointed? Will you apologize?

--Ray

What specifically would she be apologizing for, Ray? The purpose of the letter, at least as stated in the letter, is to light a fire under people to get their preperations finished. Let's say that people follow her advice, get their year's supply and such, and then nothing happens. What harm have they undergone by, to the degree which they are able, following the prophetic counsel to be prepared? Obviously it's a bad idea to max out your credit cards and buy tons of food. But, to the degree which we are able, we should be doing all we can to get prepared. The GAs have hammered on the subject repeatedly, including in recent conferences. Too many people put it off, thinking that the need is not immediate. The problem is, even if you won't use it immediately, the need to get it is immediate. Why? Because we have been told to do so by our prophets.
So, the short version of my question again; what harm would she be apologizing for?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

We are perpetually doing (well, "I" am technically, since I'm the resident last-day-er) what we can to be prepared.

True or not, I find these types of messages personally motivating, so thank you. 9/11 was certainly nothing I saw coming.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

Preparedness is a way of life.

historian · Senior Member

Yes, mirkwood it is a way of life, and living sometimes rumples the preps.

Reminders like this encourage me to do an inventory check: used X, have I replaced it? heard that Y is good, did I get some? how long since I rotated the stored water?

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

So none of you see problems with public predictions of acts of terror, set up like prophetic counsel with oblique qualifiers like "by the end of this year"?

I think there's a reason that "The Boy who cried Wolf" is still told by most parents...

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

Ray, I may be wrong, but this seemed to be the only bit that talked about prophetic counsel:

You all know what the Prophets have been telling us for years, have you followed it?
The rest of it talked about "intel", which Convert expanded a bit on later. That doesn't sound to me like the whole message is couched as prophetic counsel. It seemed to me when I read it that the one part of it referenced the prophetic counsel to have our supplies.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

I'm with Ray on this. Yes, I do have a problem with with public predictions of acts of terror, set up like prophetic counsel with oblique qualifiers like "by the end of this year". Truth is the greatest weapon and deceipt and half-truths are of the devil. You cry wolf enough people aren't gonna listen.

Convert didn't clarify any Intel but skirted around providing more intel because it is intel of a kind that one can "only provide an overview of". In other words - it comes from unqualified sources and would be revealed as such if the sources were disclosed whether Convert knows that or not.

arbilad · Head Chef

Convert didn't clarify any Intel but skirted around providing more intel because it is intel of a kind that one can "only provide an overview of". In other words - it comes from unqualified sources and would be revealed as such if the sources were disclosed whether Convert knows that or not.
That is a rather bold statement. I'm curious to know how you are so certain that the sources are unqualified. Do you have sources that state that what she predicted is definitely not the case? Or do you happen to know what sources she is using, know that they are unqualified, and you also are unwilling to tell us what those sources are?
I agree that warning too frequently inures people to warnings, rendering them useless. I have seen several such predictions as Convert posted not come true. But the fact is, they are still possible, so I keep the possibility in mind that the prediction is true. I don't know what Convert's sources are. I cannot evaluate them. They may or may not be qualified. I don't know, and without knowing her sources, cannot say one way or the other. She seems to think they are qualified, and that is the only evidence we have.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Is Convert one of your relatives or a personal relation, Arbi? Cuz I don't understand why you're so open to her suggestions, while skeptical of all sorts of stuff... Do you know something we don't?

I appreciate counsel and wisdom, but how can I judge from anonymous sources, especially when they come to me over the internet. this wouldn't be the first time, someone attempted to create an internet alarm (often they come in the form of emails... about how the first presidency decided never to talk about food storage again... etc... and then later the First Pres. Has to send out a letter explaining that they never said such a thing...) ...

I wanna know why you find this evidence so credible.

--Ray

TitusTodd · Senior Member

The sources stand unqualified until Convert chooses to qualify them. 9 times out of 10 (SBE - Statistics by Experience) someone who makes such a statement on an internet board, blog or by e-mail does so because they don't have a qualified source but merely picked up the statement from some internet board, blog or by e-mail.

We have enough to deal with with reality. We don't need some fearmongering statements with little or no factual basis. And yes, until facts are presented, there is no basis.

arbilad · Head Chef

Is Convert one of your relatives or a personal relation, Arbi? Cuz I don't understand why you're so open to her suggestions, while skeptical of all sorts of stuff... Do you know something we don't?
I have had absolutely zero dealings with Convert other than on this board. I see the warning she gives as possible. Maybe not even likely, but possible. We seem to share many similar views, although we do disagree on things like Romney.

I appreciate counsel and wisdom, but how can I judge from anonymous sources, especially when they come to me over the internet. this wouldn't be the first time, someone attempted to create an internet alarm (often they come in the form of emails... about how the first presidency decided never to talk about food storage again... etc... and then later the First Pres. Has to send out a letter explaining that they never said such a thing...) ...
You are very right; false alarms abound. I remember after 9/11, or instance, people made all sorts of associations with other numbers and dates, predicting with certainty that another incident was going to happen soon.

I wanna know why you find this evidence so credible.
I don't know if it's likely or not - but I know that it's possible. But even totally aside from whether it's possible, the advice to be prepared is good.
What I see in Convert's post is a sincere desire to convey a warning given the best information available to her.

arbilad · Head Chef

TitusTodd wrote:

The sources stand unqualified until Convert chooses to qualify them. 9 times out of 10 (SBE - Statistics by Experience) someone who makes such a statement on an internet board, blog or by e-mail does so because they don't have a qualified source but merely picked up the statement from some internet board, blog or by e-mail.

We have enough to deal with with reality. We don't need some fearmongering statements with little or no factual basis. And yes, until facts are presented, there is no basis.

Ah, yes, it remains unproven. But that is a different statement from your original one, that if the sources were revealed, it would be obvious that they are unqualified. I agree that any warning you read on the internet should be taken with anything from a grain to a bag of salt.

Euphrasie · Senior Bucketkeeper

My problem with the whole issue is that it sounds overstated (either deliberately, misleadingly, or innocently) in order to browbeat me into doing something. While it's better to be compelled to be prepared, as it were, than to be unprepared, I prefer to be given the benefit of the doubt that I am preparing myself before the compelling jumps in.

arbilad · Head Chef

BTW, we definitely don't hear everything, or even the majority of happenings in the world, in the mainstream media. The internet is a great source for those bits of news that you can't get elsewhere. The problem is the high signal to noise ratio. There's a lot of valuable information. But it's difficult to learn to differentiate the good from the bad.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I think we agree that the information "could" be true... But I just don't know where to place such "could be" statements in my priorities...

God "could've" also used Evolution to create the first body of man...

There are plenty of reasons to get one's food storage that don't involve black helicopters. And why have we received no general counsel from the Lord to arm ourselves with semi-automatic weapons for the fullscale assault from Mexican nationals?

I'm sorry but this sort of thing could also be viewed as extremely offensive to someone who came here from Mexico with the purest of intentions... not that we let any of "THOSE" people here in Bountiful... ahem...

--Ray

nitasmile · Senior Member

Cat Herder wrote:

From the website provided by Convert:

The Northeast Intelligence Network is comprised of a network of veteran, licensed professional investigators, analysts, military affairs specialists and researchers who have combined their resources in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States by Islamic terrorists.

Through a fee-based subscription to the HQ INTEL-ALERT Private Intelligence Report, we offer specific information about a variety of issues, events and security matters that we feel are too sensitive to place in the public domain.

Although some of the information contained in our newsletter is obtained directly from confidential sources within various government agencies, we never violate any laws prohibiting the unlawful dissemination of classified government information.

The first paragraph intrigued me, I felt that is just.

The second paragraph is a little self-righteous, they feel certain info is too delicate to be in public domain yet trying to "scare" people in such a manner as this? Plus people need to pay to find out things.

The third paragraph is what bothers me most- they are getting info from "confidential sources" within govt- yet these sources of info have violated the trust the govt put in them by sharing info w/this group. To me this makes them lose some degree of integrity- without an actual documented source, how can this info be "trusted".

arbilad · Head Chef

rayb wrote:

I think we agree that the information "could" be true... But I just don't know where to place such "could be" statements in my priorities...

God "could've" also used Evolution to create the first body of man...

There are plenty of reasons to get one's food storage that don't involve black helicopters. And why have we received no general counsel from the Lord to arm ourselves with semi-automatic weapons for the fullscale assault from Mexican nationals?

I'm sorry but this sort of thing could also be viewed as extremely offensive to someone who came here from Mexico with the purest of intentions... not that we let any of "THOSE" people here in Bountiful... ahem...

--Ray

I wouldn't throw an illegal alien off Bountiful, as long as they were members of the church. I have nothing against mexicans, and I enjoy the company of my hispanic friends and coworkers. Just yesterday at the company picnic I sat next to one and asked how the "mexican" food compared to real mexican food. The answer? That it was pretty much the exact opposite of mexican food. So don't assume racism where there is none. And don't assume pure intent of those who break the law.
The reason to be ready for such possibilities is that sooner or later, something will happen. We are no more secure than we were before 9/11. Recently, for instance, they did a test at the Denver airport. 90% of the time they were able to pass the security check with liquid explosives in their bags. Our enemies our out there, and with no border protection at all, it is only a matter of time before they do something.

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

I think the government has really let us all down in this regard. People are prone to Internet warnings like this because they can sense, accurately I think, that the world is dangerous and that there are enemies out there who would like to hurt America. But the government's response has not been an entirely serious one. Yes, we have taken the battle abroad, and that I support. But here at home? We don't do profiling for fear that we are being racist, and so little old Methodist ladies have to be subjected to humiliating and bothersome security measures that the average American does not need to be subjected to. About the only real change in American life since 9/11 is the hassle of getting on an airplane and not being able to take bottled water with you, or having to take your shoes off first. This is not a serious nation's response to a real, serious threat.

The whole issue of border security is just another dimension of this. Bush has been great about taking the war to the enemy in terms of using the military abroad. But the borders are wide open, and people who care about this nation's security know this and are concerned about it.

So when the government and the media don't take our protection seriously, people are going to be susceptible to rumors such as this. I don't buy this particular one in the slightest. But I do agree that there will be another attack on the US, sooner or later.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

rayb wrote:
I appreciate counsel and wisdom, but how can I judge from anonymous sources, especially when they come to me over the internet. this wouldn't be the first time, someone attempted to create an internet alarm
--Ray

The questions I asked at first are related to Ray's concerns.

I gave regular intelligence briefings to my commander. He was responsible for taking care of his people and accomplishing the mission with the finite resources available. So sometimes when I thought the intelligence I provided was clearly actionable, he had other priorities and took no action. In every case, his wisdom and judgment proved the best course of action, even though I had recommended something different.

As a leader of my family, I am responsible for those whom God has placed in my care. I fulfill my stewardship with the finite resources available. So when anyone attempts to "light a fire under me," especially with "intel" from undisclosed or questionable sources, I'm gonna ask a lot of questions before I start pulling resources from some other activity in order to respond.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

roper... I'll go you one better... We also can ALL ask for direction when presented with possible concerns in any avenue during our lives, and then follow that direct. In the case of a couple/parents... I believe that if they work for it and are living worthy of it, they will be guided through the spirit. I am not saying where my direction leads, but EACH member of God's family can be divinely inspired to some degree, those with the gift og the Holy Ghost should be able to discern what is the best course of action for their family.

Not enough people take that option for granted.

Convert · Veteran Member

I've decided to revise my response to your various remarks. I was going to respond to each of you individually, but decided against it.

First of all I would like to thank those who have taken this information seriously. My intent for putting this information out is sincere. I honestly hope that you'll continue to prepare. Prepare also for the fact that you may have to defend your home and your families. Please don't put it on the back burner. I know its difficult to do, but a mouse can eat an elephant, one bite at a time.

My sources are more than qualified. The majority are too dangerous for you to access without a secure proxy. I have given you NEIN (Northeast Intelligence Network) which uses some of the same sources but not all, plus they have their own. They're tracking events primarily in the U.S, we are not. Some think that NEIN's sources have compromised their integrity by providing info. Really? Did it ever occur to you that these same people love this country and its people so much they're willing to divulge UNclassified info to alert you? Would you rather that we say "I don't need this, to heck with them"? Instead of questioning the intent, be thankful they aren't withholding what you should know. Some read about the guys involved and roll their eyes. I would ask a question, did you read what they've said ???

My neighbor across the street is a retired Trooper. All 6'4" of him is no nonsense. He now travels the world teaching about WMD detection and handling. Some time ago I ask him if he was familiar with NEIN. He smiled and said yes. Next I ask if they were a good source of info. He gave me another yes.

There is a ton of open source information you can see if you're looking. One drawback is that the media is being muffled. Why? I don't know. All I know is that when whatever is going to happen happens, most Americans are going to be caught flat footed. That's the part that angers us the most. On that note I would like to add one more thing. The First Lady did several TV spots a few months ago telling Americans to prepare. If I recall right she referenced natural disasters, but she didn't confine her urging to that. Did you see those messages? Did you up your preps? The government IS putting the word out but in a very nonchalant way to avoid causing panic.

Yes the little boy cried wolf and that sneaky wolf hid each time. And in the end the little boy was eaten. You might think we're crying wolf but I can assure you, we don't plan to be eaten and we would prefer that you weren't either.

Am I making a prophetic prediction? No, and I consider that a cheap shot. What I told you is what came from my director. It isn't classified so I can share it. It's a summation of Intel collected and analyzed over many months. There's been quite an increase lately. We've even accessed their "how to" manuals.

The Middle Easterners that are here illegally are snuck in by Mexicans and in some cases hide with them. The ME's have also hooked up with the MS13 gang and Aryan Nation. They have multiple terrorist training camps here, they have multiple cells and they have dry runs up to ying yang. Our first responders are being watched and some have reported being followed home.

I find it amusing that some are afraid of "offending" those who have come with the purest of intentions, yet have no difficulty questioning the intent of this messenger. Mmmm, that's something to think about.

How do you know what I've said is legit? Use your discernment. If you don't want to believe it, so be it. I can at least say I gave you a heads up. Can I say exactly when something is going to happen? No and I haven't tried. My director thinks it'll be by mid summer. I hope he's wrong.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

historian wrote:

Yes, mirkwood it is a way of life, and living sometimes rumples the preps.

Reminders like this encourage me to do an inventory check: used X, have I replaced it? heard that Y is good, did I get some? how long since I rotated the stored water?

Good. I wasn't putting down the lifestyle...I've lived it for over 15 years.

mirkwood · Senior Bucketkeeper

I was told by my source that the Northeast Intelligence Network was not that good of a source. It looks like we both have connections into the Federal Intel machine and are getting different thoughts on the site. That is very interesting.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

NEIN sounds too shadowy to me. If they really cared, they'd get the message out with the facts without the cloak and dagger crap. Smacks of Secret Combination to me. Who's to say what their true intent is. Perhaps they want to take over. If people truly want to help their fellow citizens, they'll make public pronouncements with facts (which I believe is possible while still keeping the sources identity secret).

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

They could be the group behind teaching Orwellian concepts via the Teletubbies!

arbilad · Head Chef

BTW, it seems interesting to me that Convert warns us of potentially imminent plots on Thursday, and Friday they arrest terrorists who were intent on doing harm to JFK airport. One of them that they haven't caught yet was planning to set off a nuke.
Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe that's not what her sources were talking about at all. Or maybe they just got lucky. But it's also possible that Convert was right.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

Convert's warning goes far beyond what was being plotted for JFK airport. Convert's statement is more than just a general warning about future threats. The threats we face from terrorism are real and should be considered by all of us and should not be clouded by questionable specifics.

Convert · Veteran Member

For those that want to know.........

Terrorists Use Mexico to Enter U.S.
Jim Meyers
Tuesday, June 5, 2007
Counterterrorism authorities have come to fear that the porous U.S.-Mexico border provides entry into the United States, not only for illegal aliens, but for Islamic terrorists as well.

And these same Islamic terrorists may also be using Mexico as the conduit to bring nuclear devices into the U.S. for a WMD attack. These are among the chilling disclosure from Paul L. Williams, author of the just-released book "The Day of Islam: The Annihilation of America and the Western World."

According to Williams, al-Qaida has already hatched plans to smuggle nuclear materials across the Mexican border and use them for a mammoth simultaneous attack on several large U.S. cities.

Al-Qaida and other terrorist groups began infiltrating Mexico in the days after 9/11. By 2003, Canadian intelligence officials and Interpol told Mexican President Vincente Fox that al-Qaida had established several cells in Mexico to prepare for the next terrorist attacks, Williams tells readers.

Meanwhile hundreds of Tzozil Indians in southern Mexico converted to Islam and reportedly became involved in subversive activities. By 2004, al-Qaida cells were in place in northern Mexico and a large cell of Hezbollah was in Tijuana, on the U.S. border of California. The Muslim radicals enlisted the aid of Latino gangs, including Mara Salvatrucha, to help them slip across the border.

According to Williams, the going rate for such service was from $30,000 to $50,000, but it included a bogus matricular consular, an official ID card issued by the Mexican government that enables Mexican nationals in the U.S. to obtain drivers licenses and open bank accounts.

Steve McCraw, assistant director of the FBI's Office of Intelligence, told the House Judiciary Committee in June 2003:

"The ability of foreign nationals to use the matricular consular provides an opportunity for terrorists to move freely within the United States without triggering name-based watch lists that are disseminated to local police officials."

Mexico has also become a conduit for aliens from terror-sponsoring states, known as "special-interest aliens," or SIAs. By 2006, a popular entry route from Mexico into Arizona was littered with "discarded Muslim prayer rugs, pages from the Quran, instructions in Arabic on how to cross the Rio Grande, and beverage boxes with Farsi and Arabic letters," writes Williams, a seasoned investigative reporter and former FBI consultant.

Due to a lack of detention facilities, those SIAs that are apprehended - who have numbered in the thousands in recent years - are released from custody after receiving hearing dates from immigration judges. Fewer than 5 percent actually show up for their hearing. The rest simply vanish.

Texas Rep. Solomon Ortiz, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee's Subcommittee on Readiness, said the release of Middle Easterners with possible links to al-Qaida is "very, very scary and members of Congress know about this."

In April 2004, the FBI arrested al-Qaida operative Mohammed Junaid Babar, after he returned to New York City from a terrorist summit meeting in Pakistan. He told interrogators that al-Qaida was preparing a nuclear attack on American cities. He also said the terrorists were relying on Latino gangs, most notably Mara Salvatrucha, to transport the operatives, along with nuclear supplies, across the U.S.-Mexican border.

Another captured terrorist later confirmed Babar's account. And both men said the plot was being directed by Adnan el-Shukrijumah, the man profiled in a NewsMax story last week - whom Williams calls "the most dangerous person in the Western world."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/6/5/124700.shtml?s=al&PROMOCODE=3502-1

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I don't doubt that we have not seen the end of this.

If you want to cross-thread, I've had dreams about this, too.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Conspiracies come in all forms...

...evil and designing men might craft such things just in time for congress to vote on immigration reform...

--Ray

Convert · Veteran Member

Cocobeem wrote:

I don't doubt that we have not seen the end of this.

If you want to cross-thread, I've had dreams about this, too.

So has a friend of mine in So Cal. She isn't LDS and didn't know the first thing about prepardness. Not having children she and hubby would buy as needed in the food department. Nothing much in the cupboards or fridge. Now they have several months worth and she's growing a garden on the side of her house.

She had surgery around the first of the year and hubby really appreciated not having to shop while she was bed ridden.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

The conversion of Mayans in Tzozil indians to Islam has been underway since the mid-1990s. The information on the conversion of Tzozil indians apparently first appeared in a Spiegel Report back in 1995. Quoting from that article:

But the Indians have no interest in political extremism. Rather, they belong to the Sunni, Murabitun sect that was founded by the Scotsman Ian Dallas and is seen as an offshoot of a Moroccan religious order. The Murabitun followers represent a sort of primal Islam: Earning interest profits through money lending is a no-no and they preach a literal interpretation of the Koran.

Of course, just because they say they're not interested in political extremism does not mean they are not involved and I have to wonder about their "literal interpretation" of the Koran.

Al-Quaida and other terrorist groups are everywhere, including cells in the US. Of course we should be concerned about their presence in Mexico (FoxNews article). That is why our border security is so critical. However, the justification for mass attacks by groups just does not seem to be there. Nuclear attacks require nuclear material and we have no proof they have it (Williams, is currently being sued a Canadian Universary for an accusation nuclear material was stolen from there - his publisher apologized but Williams maintains the theft occured).

It would be a mistake to think the various terrorist groups are not being monitored. It would be wrong to think this is all going on without US intelligence knowing when Williams and others do.

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 11:02, 2007-06-06

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 09:07, 2007-06-08

arbilad · Head Chef

Monitoring may be occurring, but does it do any good? There have been several instances where information existed, but was not passed on. For instance, there was one team that monitored telephone calls; they pinpointed one of the 9/11 terrorists before the attack, and if their information had been acted upon perhaps the terrorists could have been arrested. But their information was flatly ignored. I personally don't think that the additional bureaucracy that they have created after 9/11 in the intelligence industry has helped them share information better.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

For instance, there was one team that monitored telephone calls; they pinpointed one of the 9/11 terrorists before the attack, and if their information had been acted upon perhaps the terrorists could have been arrested. But their information was flatly ignored.

Do you really think that that sort of thing continues today? Do you think 9/11 changed anything in the intelligence community?

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 15:21, 2007-06-06