Choosing between God and Mammon

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Choosing between God and Mammon

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

Eli Herring.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

Thanks, Bokbadok, for posting this.

Steve Young played professional football on Sundays for many years, yet remained true to core gospel standards. His professional success and clean living made him an attractive ambassador for the Church throughout North America and beyond. His wealth has allowed him to endow a formidable charity, whose efforts have benefited thousands. He married a beautiful woman in the temple and seems to lead a nearly perfect life.

Eli Herring, on the other hand, opted out of a lucrative football career because of a more literal interpretation of keeping the Sabbath Day holy. He expressed faith in the Lord's promised blessings for such obedience and became a high school math teacher.

I faced a similar challenge - train and compete to prepare for a shot at the 1960 olympic games, which entalied exclusively Sunday competition in preparation, and probably also at the games. I was told by my branch president that if I participated on Sundays I would not receive a temple recommend. Basta cosi !

Personally, I am disappointed that the Church uses the achievements of members like Steve Young, Dale Murphy, and other prominent sabbath breakers to draw attention to the Church and the Gospel. General Authotities who have used these people as outstanding reprresentatives of the Church owe an apology to people like Eli Herring.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

thanks lb.

Agreeing 100% with what you said... but I will say this for Steve Young, everytime I heard him speak to the youth of the Church, he did say, "If I had it to do over again, I would have chosen a mission and another occupation." That speaks volumes.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Great article, Bok!

I grew up watching Donny and Marie Osmond. I wanted to be like Donny in so many ways.

I was a teenager when "every worthy young man should serve a full-time mission" was treated like a commandment. As I prepared for a mission, I asked my Bishop and my Stake President why Donny Osmond didn't go on a mission. His older brothers had. I was informed that Donny's mission was of a different type--to use his musical talents to touch the lives of a wider audience and introduce them to the gospel.

After I returned from a mission and was attending BYU, I went to a special fireside presented by Donny Osmond. The introduction to the fireside stated that Donny had gained a special testimony of the Savior as he had served as a musical ambassador, and that he would share his experiences and testimony that evening.

Donny arrived 45 minutes late and casually dressed for a Sunday evening fireside. No apologies. No explanation. He opened with a few jokes about dating at BYU, said he would like to change the focus of the fireside, and then turned the fireside into a question-and-answer forum about dating issues, with him as the "host." I left after 15 minutes.

Since then, I've always been turned off by LDS celebrities who seem to give themselves "exemptions" from expectations that apply to the general membership of the church.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

I don't make heros out of others, particularly celebrities.

I look at the good and admirable attributes of those I know or are familiar with and try to emulate those attributes when possible.

None of us are in a position to pass judgement over others concerning their apparent choices between God and Mammon, unless we are the individual's Bishop or Stake President.

One high priest quorum instructor used to say that gospel standards aren't intended only for the sterile environment of the lesson-laboratory. They are meant for the grit and grind of everyday life even when some degree of sacrifice is required.

I think that says it all for me.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

yup

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Choosing between God and Mammon

arbilad · Head Chef

That is definitely an interesting article. For my part, I have almost never worked Sundays. I think that the occasions I have can be counted on one hand. But I'm not well off either.
Of course, as much as I'd like to be well off, people that I admire spiritually do not always choose that path. My Bishop is a dentist, and he sold his lucrative practice in one city to work longer hours at a low cost clinic in another city. He made a conscious decision to earn less money and work longer hours. I have nothing against dentists who choose to earn more money (as long as they are honest). I have no problems with dentists who don't want to work long hours. But I deeply admire my Bishop for his decision.

-- Edited by arbilad at 22:39, 2007-04-15

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

Well I'm one of those dentists who work long hours and doesn't make much.

On the other hand, my buddy who is getting a divorce, works many less hours and makes 100,000s more than me. But he is still a WONDERFUL MAN!

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

bokbadok wrote:

I don't think we're passing judgement on anybody. Nobody said Steve Young and Donny Osmond are bad people, or that they shouldn't hold temple recommends, or anything like that. Roper shared an experience and his feelings about it, and that's perfectly valid.

Most of the above article was about the author's experiences with making choices about commandments. I think it's worth talking about.

I didn't say anyone here was. The author of the article seemed to put a bit more emphasis on individual examples than on the principle he was trying to illustrate. That is why I referenced what I felt was the one vital kernal statement of the article.

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Ah... so you're just passing judgement on the author for passing judgement?

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Ya know bok, sometimes it feels like you go out of your way to be peevish and quarrelsome with me if I state a viewpoint that is ostensibely at odds to your stated or unstated viewpoint... and at other times it seems like you single others out...

{British accent} What's botherin' ya, luv? {/British accent}

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

No Cat, what I do is go out of my way to try to understand where you are coming from. Statements like "None of us are in a position to pass judgement over others concerning their apparent choices between God and Mammon, unless we are the individual's Bishop or Stake President"
Seem to show disapproval for something that was said on the thread... since you used the term "us"... it's just confusing to me what you actually meant. Your next post seemed to indicate that you found the article deficient in some way...? Which is a judgement in and of itself. See what I'm saying?

Saying "we shouldn't judge" can be used to squash discussion, especially dissenting opinions. So, I'm trying to figure out what you really mean. I find many of your posts cryptic and confusing.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm picking on you. I didn't think you would let your frustration with me from the Dutcher thread bleed over to another discussion. That seems so "Nauvoo-like". I'm surprised to see it happening on Bountiful.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I really liked the part from D&C that states-"... for his sacrifice shall be more sacred unto me than his increase..." D&C 117:13 This statement has thus far gone totally unnoticed by me. I really have to study this. There seems to be wonderful layers taking place here.

Thanks for the link, bok!

P.S. She winked at you, cat. I think that means it's humor.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Something else I'm thinking, maybe it's the mindset that we have so much to offer that can be a problem itself...??? We think we have some talent and we're going to use it to build the kingdom in some way... Maybe that's not God's plan for us. I don't know- just thinking outloud. Just finished reading The Hiding Place, too, and it was impressed upon me how that family did so much good, but they had no inherent talent or resources to start with. They gave all the glory to God and were amazed themselves at what they accomplished, never aspiring to such a thing to begin with. Interesting topic, for sure.

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

And I must say I'm totally bummed about Donny Osmond. I have a picture with Donny and Marie when I was around 10. Maybe I should post it. ha! Also have a picture with Jimmy and Marie, but Jimmy was always kind of a chub. Not that that's bad, of course.

Just an observation.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

No frustration, Bok, just wanted to see what was going on. Ya know, the easiest way to get clarification is simply to ask for it up front honestly. Don't couch the request in what can be viewed as contrarian dialogue by others.

I just mentioned what I did because it seems we (as in we as a people) tend to pass judgement on other folks decisions as to what constitutes compliance with various gospel principles with a certain amount of impunity. We certainly wouldn't want others to hold us up as "bad examples" when they are trying to teach a principle. The Saviour rarely cited specific individuals when illustrating the principle through use of "bad examples". He spoke more generally of groups of people.

p.s. I walked past Jimmy Osmond one time when I was about 12. He had come back to our neck of the woods for some performance or something and had attended Sunday meetings with our Stake President's son (who was three or four years older than me). He was talking after church with some of the teens of that age group. I didn't know who he was and just walked on by and just kind of sensing he wasn't the one guy's cousin thought to myself 'Who's the new fat kid?'. I didn't find out until a week or so later who he was. And the funny thing was, he was a distant relative of mine (as in their mother was somehow a kinsman of one of my paternal lines from there in Idaho)...

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

The only reason I'm nice to all of you, is that when I'm a famous writer, on par with JK Rowling, you'll all say how great and genuine I am... :) It's all part of my master plan... muwahahaha... biggrin

--Ray

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

ewww I knew Ray when he was a new Nauvoodle and a beginer Bountifuler!

wow

arbilad · Head Chef

Ray, can we get your autograph now for free before you start charging $20?

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

For you Arbi, sure... but wait... I know you... you'll just sell them on Ebay...

--Ray