How do you feel about public forum requests for prayers on behalf of forum members or their family members? Do you feel that it makes a difference in the outcome for the person in question? Is it mostly for comfort for the forum member?
I personally think it's kinda weird. But that's just me. Not knocking anyone who has done it. I just don't think I would ever do it, at least not on such a large scale. And when others make such a request, I never reply "oh yes I'll keep you in my prayers" even if I plan to do it.
Well, I feel as close or closer to many people on Bountiful and Nauvoo forums as I do to people in my ward. I was really grateful to include Hannah/Gracie in my fasting and prayers a few Sundays ago--I felt honored that someone considered my faith sufficient enough that they asked me in the first place.
From a pragmatic perspective: I don't think it will hurt. If it does nothing for them, I at least feel better. If it does even a little bit for them, then I'm grateful that I helped in a small way. So why not?
From a more faithful perspective: I've witnessed miracles in my own life and the lives of others brought about by fasting and prayer. From the Primary song "He hears and answers me when I pray in faith." I'm a true believer with a fairly extensive list. I don't mind adding a few people to that list. I don't think the Lord minds either.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
I've prayed for Gracie (actually by her real name, even put it on the temple prayer roll out here), cuz she's really struggled with health issues, and I consider her a friend. I've prayed for other online friends too... including a guy that herds cats... we all have our struggles, and in the case of the internet, there's so little we can do to help each other, save occasionally tell a joke or offer prayers. I suppose in some ways it's more sincere than some forms of service in which we think we've helped but really haven't... :)
I've felt the prayers of others and heartfelt encouragement of online friends during my annoying months jobless... and it is heartening, especially when the put up with my "moods". :)
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I was really grateful to include Hannah/Gracie in my fasting and prayers a few Sundays ago--I felt honored that someone considered my faith sufficient enough that they asked me in the first place.
Did she really ask you? In a personal email? 'Cuz what I read on the forum certainly did not look like a request for prayers. It was a request for ideas for how to deal graciously with the embarrassment of having an entire ward fasting and praying for her.
I dunno... maybe the praying is more beneficial for the pray-er than the pray-ee.
bokbadok wrote: I was really grateful to include Hannah/Gracie in my fasting and prayers a few Sundays ago--I felt honored that someone considered my faith sufficient enough that they asked me in the first place.
Did she really ask you? In a personal email?
Nope. In fact, she probably doesn't even know. She's not the kind of person who would come right out and ask people to pray for her. A mutual friend asked.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
Yes, I think it makes a difference. I credit prayers of strangers on many things. People often say they are strengthen by the prayers offered in their behalf. As an example, 2 years ago our three year old grandson fell out a 2nd story window. I requested prayers over at that other forum. A neighbor told me that she called her mother across the country and asked her to have her prayer circle include him. I know that his name was on several temple prayer rolls. All the prayers and pleas to Heavenly Father for him were a blessing to us and his parents. His recovery was nothing short of a miracle - but even if it had not been, the prayers would have strengthen us.
On the other hand, when I do make those requests I don't need replies back telling me that it is being done - but I appreciate all the words of comfort.
I think I can relate to how you feel (in the opening post). I'm not the type who naturally senses other people's needs that easily. And unless I really sense there is a need, I often question how sincere I would be in arbitrarily praying for someone outside the immediate family. It is something I have to work on, because I know there is power in petitioning The Lord on behalf of other individuals.
Only heaven knows how many times that I personally or my family have been beneficiaries of that sort of faith. It is even more humbling to know that people you don't know at all, who are not even members of the church, but have heard there is a hardship, have included you in their personal prayers or the prayers of their respective church's practices... At my wife's employer's Christmas party, we learned that one of her co-workers and her husband, after finding out our son needed a pace maker installed, had been praying for him, as well as their whole church. And that occured several months before I ever met them. It was all we could do to simply say "Thank You" and not start bawling in gratitude right in the middle of the restaurant.
Like a couple others, I too included Gracie (by real name) in my prayers and fasting and temple roll as I sensed there must have been some sort of real need. I felt terrible that right after that, some of the discussions we had here got interpreted as attacks on the other forum or her. Anyway, I have from time to time also prayed, fasted, or added to temple roll other individuals I have become acquainted with from here and Nauvoo as I've sensed a need to contribute some faith and petitioning in their behalf. I'm a firm believer that how we act towards and with each other here is somewhere between practice for the non-virtual world and how we do actually behave in the non-virtual world as fellow Saints.
Often times, in the real world of my ward or stake, I don't hear about the general calls to fast or pray in behalf of specific fellow Saints and so I feel left out for not at least having the opportunity to take part. Also, it sometimes feels like maybe I'm in tune enough with others to perceive the burdens they carry. It is a two-edged kind of sword. Do you end up doing it because you don't want to be left out, or because you really are trying to exercise some level of charity, and if you aren't in the thick of it are you doing it just to go through the motions or what? These are all questions I ask myself. I try to avoid telling people "I'll keep you in my prayers" for the very reason I am not as regular at prayers I should be, and I'd rather not be guilty of also being a liar if I forget. It is kind of like promising young people who are not your own kids you will write to them while they're on a mission...
I'm not entirely comfortable with the habit that some folks have of asking others to include them in their prayers and what have you, but that is probably just me (for the same reason I mentioned above). I honestly think it is admirable that those individuals have such trust and faith. I certainly do not want to prevent them for receiving blessings for exercising faith. Someday, maybe I'll have matured enough spiritually in that regards to not feel awkward about asking others to exercise their faith in my or my loved one's behalf. And, hopefully, I will mature enough to where I don't feel awkward doing the same for others.
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I think what feels weirdest to me is putting out a request on the internet. Asking family and close friends to pray is one thing--they have a very Real Life vested interest in my well being. You people here say you care yada yada, but the real fact is that your lives would not be one bit changed if I dropped off the forum never to be seen again. Okay, maybe Cat's life here on Bountiful would be a little easier.... :)
In addition, these forums are read by a great many more people than have membership. If I put out a request for prayers, it's not just people I trust like Roper and Ray and Arb and Cat and Mahonri and Hoss and Euph and Jen and Melissa etc. reading it. I'm reminded of that occasionally and... sometimes it gives me the willies, especially when it comes to most personal and sacred things like faith and prayer.
Ya know?
Do we really believe that More prayers means More healing/comfort whatever? That God will say "No" if 5 people pray, but "Yes" if 100 people pray?
I don't think it works that way.
And what about negative prayers or curses? What if I give my real name on a public internet forum and there's some ex-mo or Satan worshipper out there reads it and does some little blood ritual and prays that I'll die instead? Does that cancel out the effect of Roper's positive prayer on my behalf?
And what about negative prayers or curses? What if I give my real name on a public internet forum and there's some ex-mo or Satan worshipper out there reads it and does some little blood ritual and prays that I'll die instead? Does that cancel out the effect of Roper's positive prayer on my behalf?
I think it's worthwhile to consider who the request is being made of. A Satan Worshipper is most likely to ask Satan for you to die. But Satan's power is puny compared to the Lord's. Thus, it would be easy for the Lord to cancel out any other request.
Alma the Older made a public request for prayers for his son, and it worked. I imagine that there were quite a few who thought like Alma the Younger and might have made prayers that Alma the Older would change his ways instead. Good wins out in the end.
I don't think it comes down to a numbers game; The Lord judges these requests by our earnestness. If you say a few half-hearted prayers that your grandma's colon cancer will go away, the Lord may decide that it really doesn't seem to matter to you, so he won't grant the blessing. My guess is that if numbers help, it is because by getting greater numbers involved you demonstrate to the Lord that you are in earnest.
None of that probably makes much sense, but it's Friday and the end of work is nigh. My brain is fried.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Do numbers count? I don't know. Maybe sometimes. Of course, Heavenly Father and The Savior are not playing to a popularity contest. But, as Mrs. Cat Herder just mentioned to me, what is the purpose of having a prayer roll at the temple if they do not respond in some manner to the sheer volume of faith exhibited?
Is it the Lord's will that someone be healed or not? That is where many of us do not know the answer, and maybe greater numbers of righteous individuals will persuade Him to do so. It's possible, but not always the case. I think like with many things, His granting of what is asked is much like the answer to a prayer: yes, no, or it depends on ______ (condition we need to determine). Certainly, there is first hand evidence most of us can share that shows that in various situations, when the Saints and righteous pray en masse for something, The Lord has responded favorably to the petitioning. I think that there is a direct correlation between certain types of blessings we recieve and the amount of faith exerted in praying for it righteously. But, we are not always cognizant of where the blessing is dependant upon the level of faith exhibited.
I'm reminded of D&C 42:43-52. If there is sufficient faith, as I understand from reading it, and the individual is not appointed unto death, they will be healed. I have perhaps a more unique perspective on this than some of the rest of you, having an autistic son who has had numerous health issues and major surgery several times since hitting puberty.
What is my son's mission or purpose on earth? I don't know. Some people, in their attempts at being kind and respectful, suggest that his condition is the result of his valiance in the pre-existence and that he just needed a body and that this is protection from the adversary for him in mortality... I don't know, I let them believe that if they want, because some of it may be true. But, regardless of that, he is a conduit for blessings in the lives of all those who come in contact with him, if they allow it. Maybe that is his mission, to allow others to grow and develop through direct service or others to be blessed indirectly through research and all kinds of other things he is part of because of his condition...
Maybe a lot of the praying for someone else is similar. If nothing more, it helps us to grow closer to the Savior by thinking of and caring for others more and losing ourselves a little in the process.
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
The topic of the Sacrament Meeting talks in our ward today was prayer. My ears perked up based on our discussion here, and one of the speakers quoted something from the Bible Dictionary that was kind of like a light going on, at least for me, in relation to the topic here.
Bible Dictionary under Prayer, bottom of page 752, top of 753: "Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correpsondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings."
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I love that entry in the Bible Dictionary! It's good to remember it once in awhile. The Lord wants to bless us, and he has so many blessing waiting if we just ask, either by prayer or by our actions. I don't think it can ever hurt to have others pray for you. It takes a lot for me to ask for it, but I know when people do, it helps me remember to be just a little better and to have more faith.
I also like to take opportunities to direct my prayers to be about people other than myself. Whenever I do, I feel better about myself, and feel so much more blessed, along with a greater love for those I pray for. None of those are bad things.
Of course it's easier to pray for those I know, but sometimes praying for people I don't know helps start a good relationship with them because I love them enough to pray for them.
My theory in life is well described by John Lennon: "All you need is love". Praying for others helps me to love them, and the two greatest commandments are about love.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
