NBA Banishes Tim Hardaway From All-Star Game After Anti-Gay Remarks

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

NBA Banishes Tim Hardaway From All-Star Game After Anti-Gay Remarks

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Hey, well at least he's not Kenny Chesney!! http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/02/15/people.kennychesney.ap/index.html

arbilad · Head Chef

It seems that you have to be weird or demented to be accepted as normal in professional sports.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I think what he said was reprehensible but it was his opinion. I hate these forced apologies these days. They aren't sincere anyway. I wonder if there would have been any forced apology if he had said those things about Christains or white men though?

Melissa · Veteran Member

Yes Hardaway has the right to speak his mind about gays, but he also has to accept the consequences of that speech. What he said was hateful and mean. It wasn't just his opinion that he disagrees with the homosexual lifestyle. He said he hates gays. He said he wouldn't speak to someone in his own family if they were gay. I think he needed to have serious repurcussions for those things he said. The guys doing the interview were clearly shocked at what he was saying and tried more than once to give him an out, but he persisted in what he said, and even escalated it to get his point across. It was not only in that interview, but in a second one with a different radio station as well. I had no knowledge of this man previously, but I have a pretty low opinion of him after this situation.

Yet another example of how those promoting the homosexual agenda will forcefully silence, discredit, and otherwise demean any individual who will not agree with them.
I disagree that this is what happened here. It was IMO appropriate that he be disciplined for his speech.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Well, we will have to agree that we disagree on certain aspects of this then, Melissa.

A person saying that they hate this or that or hate someone is not necessarily mean spirited or hateful. But, the immediate assumption that they are by others and actively attacking that person is. I have not heard the remarks, and I'm sure he could have worded things better, but that should have no bearing on whether or not he should have been forced to offer up an apology... an apology which we can well assume is not sincere. The man has been labelled in the PC charged world as a reprobate. He will now have to live with that legacy for the rest of his NBA career, and possible longer. Where is the "apology" for damaging his reputation by people's cry of foul, people who will suffer no real damage by his statement? Are people so afraid of hearing that others do not agree with them that any disagreement, particularly if it is not couched in euphemism, is tantamount to hate mongering and must be made an example to silence anyone else?

Why should he have to give an apology? If he spoke things that were against the policies of his employer and/or his contract, then yes, his employer can discipline him for that. Does his employer's employee manual specifically state that employees are not allowed to say they do not agree with homosexual lifestyles and attitudes? Is the NBA an Equal Opportunity Employer that does not discriminate employment based on any of the protected classes?

True, there was no direct backlash from the homosexual agenda other than the "shock and appalled" reaction from the standard "anti-defamation" groups (which is used to encense people's emotions to where they will feel "righteous indignation")... But indirectly, the sanctions his employer put on him are more than less an indirect result of that organization's caving into the agenda of accept the lifestyle as an equal or we will hurt you economically. This is a form of social engineering. Think the Snickers commercial from the Super Bowl. It was okay until the NFL got complaints of it being "insensitive" or "promoting stereotypes that would harm young people still in school who are only beginning to explore and discover their sexuality and orientation" (not exact words, but paraphrase of comments I read in an article about the commercial and the outcry from certain homosexual anti-defamation groups).

Here is an example of the sort of backlash the man has and is experiencing because he was honest in what he said:
http://www.dailynewsgroup.com/forum/nba/miami-heat/T1AANL0QTB1BG0FE4
Put yourself in his shoes and think about whether the sort of character attacks people are leveling is fair. Who is really guilty of being mean spirited and hateful?

Melissa · Veteran Member

I have not heard the remarks
You sure have a strong opinion about the topic without having done so. You should listen to the interviews. Hearing his words and his tone of voice are important to the interpretation of what he meant.

I don't think I'd have had a problem with him saying he was uncomfortable with the lifestyle and would rather not be around it. He went much further than that. His speech was hateful.
I don't see how you can say that saying they hate someone isn't hateful. That doesn't make any sense.

I agree that Hardaway should not have been forced to apologize. Forced apologies are silly. I don't buy his apology as sincere for a second. I don't even know if I agree with censure from the NBA. However, I do think that it's justice being served though if the guy never works in the NBA again as a backlash. Like I said before, he has every right to say what he did. I don't doubt that he was being honest with his opinion. He just has to deal with the consequences of his words and actions. I, for one, would never willingly associate myself with, let alone hire someone that publicly expresses such hatred toward others.

Melissa · Veteran Member

Here is a link to the original interview. The question about a gay teammate was actually asked as a wrap up, last question of the interview. Unless you want to listen to the whole thing about sports, you can jump to 5 min and 12 seconds into the interview where the question was asked.

http://www.790theticket.com/audioplayer.php?mp3=811065976Tim+Hardaway+Interview-+2-14-07.mp3&show=The%20Dan%20Le%20Batard%20Show%20with%20Stugotz&id=2087

arbilad · Head Chef

BTW, without addressing the question of whether his remarks were appropriate (the brethren, of course, always tell us to talk kindly of one another), I think that part of this person's reaction is that men are not used to being thought of as "sex symbols" as such. Therefore, even the slight possibility of another guy checking them out in the locker room creates a situation that most men don't prepare themselves for: being thought of as a sexual object, and not as a person. Women grow up dealing with this in one way or another. Men usually don't.

Melissa · Veteran Member

And here is a link to the second interview he did, while he was still defending those remarks.

http://wcco.com/national/topstories_story_046122114.html

I'll admit, I had to take my own advice and I listened to the second interview in it's entirety which I had not yet done.

The second interview was calmer and more deliberate than the first. I do see an element in his explanations that is him trying to just be honest and explain where he is coming from. There is one part of this interview in particular where he says he would not speak to a family member that was gay which I thought pushed him back over to the hateful type speech from the first interview. IMO, the first interview he seemed to think he was talking among friends so to speak. He was talking as if the guys interviewing him and the listeners shared the same hatred of gays. I think he realized this wasn't the case before going into the second interview.

One thing I hadn't realized before is that he isn't a current NBA player. He is a former player that had been selected by the NBA to represent them in the All-star tournament. I think it was perfectly within the NBA's right to decide not to have someone that is speaking out in such an unpopular way to continue to represent them.

I understand Cat Herder, your point of view that things that are abhorrent or evil are not shunned by society. But, at the same time, I don't think that this particular case is a good example of such. Shunning the sin is one thing, but ostracizing the sinner is another. I stand by my opinion that Hardaway was very inappropriate in his remarks (at least some of them) and should have seen some consequences from that.

arbi--That was very much a theme in what his remarks were. Thinking of being in the locker room with someone gay, playing on the court with them, etc. He's pretty much skeeved at the thought of possibly being looked at sexually by another man.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Thank you for the links, Melissa. I had wanted to hear the interview that caused such a firestorm of controversy.

For the record, I was not talking or commenting on
that things that are abhorrent or evil are not shunned by society
And, as said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the appropriateness of the comment and the resulting backlash. I will stand by my "strong" opinion that what is shameful here is the reaction to his comments. Because, I heard no firestorm there.

While Mr. Hardaway does not come across as a very eloquent speaker, I heard nothing in what he said to be mean spirited or hateful. Nothing. Not even the tone of his voice. The talk show hosts baited him. Mr. Hardaway was quite civil through the three first rounds of questions concerning what he thought would happen in the league if an active player revealed he was a homosexual. Then the talk show hosts started "joking" by throwing in a "hypothetical" to further bait him, to which he stated he didn't even want to go there in a hypothetical. Even then, after being called a homophobe and a bigot, he did not rail against or berate anyone. He simply stated he hated being around people like that because he thought it was wrong. And that was the extent of the comment. There was nothing more said by him or the hosts. But, I guess the word "hate" is an evil, taboo word these days, isn't it?

I did not say it was beyond the NBA's pervue as employer to decide they didn't want him representing them again. I said the censure was questionable as to whether what he said would actually be against existing written company policy. What is the actual view point that David Stern says is "ours"? I think Stern is simply showing the $ power of the entities that collude with the homosexual agenda he and his company are distancing themselves from the individual that said something you don't like, so please don't withhold your blessings to our pocketbooks. Did he state 'The NBA openly endorses homosexual lifestyle and we actively recruit homosexuals as a matter of principle, and encourage our non-homosexual players to be open minded and embrace it.' No, nothing even close to that over the top statement. All he indicated was that there was disparity between Hardaway's views and "ours"...

I do think that it's justice being served though if the guy never works in the NBA again as a backlash.
That is pretty mean spirited, isn't it. Would you really want someone to make sure you or your DH never "works in this town again" simply because they think it is justice after you or he say something that upsets their sensibilities?

But look at the response from the former player and his book that was the catalyst for the question:

Finally, someone who is honest. It is ridiculous, absurd, petty, bigoted and shows a lack of empathy that is gargantuan and unfathomable.
Again, this has a distinct tinge of mean spiritedness. The one who claims to be looking for "intelligent discourse" is actually employing a tactic so often and blatantly used by the homosexual social engineering agenda, a lot of people are desensitized to it... it almost sounds like he is saying "I am sooo much more intelligent and refined because I didn't use the "h" word and I've been a suffering victim of my circumstances for sooo long." If it sounds like, smells like, and looks like tearing the other person down to build himself or his cause up, then chances are good that discrediting and demeaning the other person is what is going on.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

I think free speech is a wonderful right.

Too bad we can't all just get along.

Melissa · Veteran Member

Well, as long as you've listened to the interviews and still have that opinion, I guess I'll bow out of this debate in the spirit of agreeing to disagree. I honestly don't have very strong opinions about this. I do have opinions and was well acquainted w/ the story so I thought I'd give it a whack. I've spent about as much energy on this one as it's going to get from me. :)

Melissa

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Melissa: Hey at least Kenney Chesney isn't gay, right?

--Ray

Melissa · Veteran Member

LOL, but I hear he's a fraud. ;)

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Hee hee, yeah, as if that's any better. :)

--Ray

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Concerning Kenny Chesney and fraud... isn't all country music and country music stars frauds against REAL music???? Oh, wait... that little trivia of why he and whomever his starlet wife was broke up... let's put down that the marriage was entered into under fraudulent pretenses so that we can just do an annulment instead of get a divorce once we decide each other is boring

Hey Melissa, hope what I said didn't come across as browbeating... I am really trying to do better and be nice!

Melissa · Veteran Member

Cat,
You were fine. If it had been a topic I was more passionate about I might have had stronger feelings and possibly gotten more riled up (see nursing on airplane thread example) but not the case here.

I've been gone because I was having a baby. Yay me! He was born on Feb 20th. He's beautiful and healthy. Needless to say, my computer time is much less these days.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Yay you, Melissa! I'm happy to hear baby is healthy. How's mom? And the rest of the family?

arbilad · Head Chef

Congratulations! Babies have precedence over Bountiful. I think I can state that unequivocably. I know that mine will frequently, as soon as he senses that I'm posting on Bountiful, come over and ask to be held so that typing is nearly impossible.

Melissa · Veteran Member

How is mom?

I'm doing very well, thanks. We're still trying to get the nursing thing down, but Momma's pretty sore still.

I am actually really grateful to be healthy. Right after a complication-free birth, my blood pressure and heart rate dropped to very low levels. After about 24 hours of them trying and not being able to get my vitals stabilized I was taken via ambulance to Denver which is 2.5 hours (by fast ambulance, anyway) away to be seen by specialists there. (We live in a very small town with a very small hospital with limited resources.) Hubby drove behind us with the baby in the car. It was determined that I was severely dehydrated. I think they gave me 6 or more bags of IV fluids before things started getting better. Anyway, thankfully they determined that my heart was in great shape and once the fluids thing was taken care of I stabilized and was able to go home the next day. It was quite the ordeal and pretty scary at times. So I'm pretty grateful for the lazy days of sitting home and feeding baby and sleeping. Hubby has had 2 weeks off of work, so I'm very grateful for that. The girls are loving their new baby brother. The younger one has been a little more reserved than I had anticipated and she's acting out in new ways, but it's very understandable. She's nearly 7 years old. That's a long time to be the baby of the family. My 9 year old is stepping right up and being a wonderful helper, just like I thought she would.

You can see pictures of the new guy on the picture thread in the Member News forum. His name is Adam. :)

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Picture thread in Nauvoo member news. He's adorable, Melissa. And yay for you (and Adam) for breastfeeding. Sister Roper had some health issues and had to stop at nine months with our baby girl. It broke her heart. We've made it to at least a year with the others.