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Post Info TOPIC: Ccongressman Ron Paul bids for presidency


Profuse Pontificator

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Ccongressman Ron Paul bids for presidency


I wonder how many Americans realize that Congressman Ron Paul (TX-R) has taken the first step recently toward launching a second presidential bid in 2008, this time as a Republican. Paul limits his view of the role of the federal government to those duties laid out in the U.S. Constitution. A Paul presidency would seriously attempt the re-establishment of the rule of constitutional law to American government. Ron Paul is a true constitutionalist in every sense of the word. I have lent financial support as I could afford to his congressional election campaigns (I do not live in Texas), and watched him as best I could for most of the years he has been in Congress, and have concluded the following about him:


He would oppose the establishment of the North American Union, which has already been agreed upon by President Bush, President Fox and then Prime Minister Martin.

He would work to extricate the U.S. from the various trade agreements (e.g., CAFTA, NAFTA) which will continue to permanently lower the amount of available jobs and wage structure for future generations of Americans.

He has frequently objected to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and considers America’s entry into those wars unconstitutional as well as immoral and would demand that Congress accept its responsibility for declaring the wars or remove American forces from those countries.

He has always opposed U.S. membership in the U.N., and would strive to get the U.S. out of the U.N. and get the U.N. out of the U.S.

He would push for a flat tax on income and elimination of certain other taxes such as the inheritance tax.

He would strive to reign in the abuses of the IRS and abandon the fiat currency which has plunged the true worth of the dollar to new international lows.

He would try to stop American tax dollars from being used to support illegal migrant health care, education, social security and unemployment insurance.

He would resist the adoption of the Amero as our new currency because we would have to equalize our dollar with the Mexican Peso and the Canadian Dollar

He would do his best to eliminate the Federal Reserve System and such practices as fractional reserve banking which is responsible for the theft of untold amounts of money from the American people..

He would resist the private takeover of the internet.

He would oppose the elimination of the alternative health care industry under CODEX.

He favours returning to paper ballots in order to ensure the integrity of our elections.

He would endeavour to halt further increases in social welfare and oppose renewal of such programs as they expire.

He would at least drastically reduce foreign aid, especially to countries unfriendly to the U.S.

He would enforce laws prohibiting transfer of militarily sensitive technology to avowed enemies like Russia and China, and their allies.

I think I’ve covered about all the bases of what I think his platform will include. Having said that, I think the Republican Party will make every effort to sabotage Ron Paul's campaign. There is no love lost between Paul and other Republicans in Congress. In the last primaires the Republican Party ran a candidate against him with ties to the Sanatra family and some LDG connections that I forget now. But big $s were thrown by the party into his opponent's campaign. Ron Paul is the only congressman since Larry McDonald to totally support the principles written in the Declaration of Independence and codified in the US Constitution. I would like to think that he will be supported by the Constitution Party, the Libertarian Party and the Independent American Party. This should be an interesting campaign.

In a best case scenario, Paul would be marginalized by his own party because he is a threat to their personal status quo. If he pushed to roll back the unconstitutional legislation of George Bush (e.g., Military Commission Act), he would be accused of being soft on terrorism. If Paul were to unilaterally withdraw us from CAFTA and NAFTA with the hope of restoring our children's economic future, he would be accused of being a socialist, a protectionist, and war mongering politician because of his anti-trade policies. He would also be ostracized by the mainstream media and the six corporations which own 99% of the media. Most Americans, too busy to do any meaningful research, would be bamboozled by an unrelenting wave of yellow journalism designed to discredit his true positions. Fellow Republicans, desiring to protect their corporate fundraising turf, would join in the witch hunt that would follow a Paul candidacy because his candidacy would threaten their political coffers and future employment at the expense of the American people.

JFK was the last President to actively oppose the continued operation of the Federal Reserve. His murder has been attributed at least in part to that. Paul would receive serious opposition to his anti-war stance, his anti-Federal Reserve position, and his opposition to undeclared wars is a threat to all the interests who view Iraq and all other future military "police actions" as the great American cash cow. And in a worst case scenario, Paul would have to face these same forces with much personal and professional derision from within his own party.

Both the Republicans and the Democrats have sold their political soul to the corporate devil. Any threat to the existing system will have as much of a chance of succeeding than a group of "loyal oppositionist" Chinese who would oppose their present military dictatorship. One simply cannot run for President within a dictatorial regime in the same manner that one cannot be an ardent Constitutionalist and receive the support of political parties which have evolved into a government by and for the transnational corporations.



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Senior Bucketkeeper

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He sounds like Libertarian in Repubulican clothes.

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Wow.

I wish this man had even the slightest chance to be elected... that or perhaps become a part of the new administration and tutor the next president on constitutional law.


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He gets my vote. I've been a fan of his for a long time, wish all of our LDS congressmen and senators would take lessons from him, especially those that claim to be lawyers and know the constitution. I'm not naming names.

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Profuse Pontificator

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Roper got it right.  Ron Paul ran for President once before, as the Libertarian candidate in 1988, receiving about 400,000 votes.  Currently, some Republicans and many Libertarian, Constitution, and Independent American Party members and supporters are elated at his planned candidacy.

If a huge effort is made from now until the end of 2008 to heighten Paul's media profile and forward him as America's last hope, he may have a significant chance of giving Jeb Bush, Rudy Giuliani or whichever elitist puppet the Republicans choose to put forward a real run for their money, and of sending his message to Americans.  But he has huge obstacles to surmount.  I believe the media is heavily governed by Latter Day Gadiantons, who are opposed to our constitutional government and pushing for a socialist dictatorship, and will treat Ron Paul as it did Barry Goldwater in 1964.  So far, I've not heard or read a word in the mainstream media about Paul's intentions.  But see  http://www.ronpaul.org/   or search for Ron Paul on the internet.

To crazymom5's comments, LDSs especially would do well to compare the voting records of all current LDS congressional representatives with that of Congressman Paul after reading and studying "Many Are Called But Few Are Chosen" by the late 70, H. Verlan Andersen, which can be read on line at  http://www.redhotlogo.com/MACBFAC4.htm    In the April 1972 General Conference, then Apostle Ezra Taft Benson recommended reading this book.  



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Lundbaek, couldn't agree with you more. I actually love all of H. Verlan Anderson's books, only wish more members would read them, plus the writings of Ezra T. Benson and J. Rueben Clark. Another Prophet to read his writings about such things is David O. McKay.

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Hot Air Balloon

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There are plenty of folks with libertarian sympathies (myself included, to some degree) who accept reality and know that to be effective in politics you have to work within the two party system...

--Ray

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rayb wrote:

There are plenty of folks with libertarian sympathies (myself included, to some degree) who accept reality and know that to be effective in politics you have to work within the two party system...

--Ray


Which is why I think Ron Paul is doing a good thing by running as a Republican. I don't agree with a bunch of his views, but at least people can vote on him in the primaries instead of the general election.

By the way, I was just wondering where you were Lundbaek. Glad to see you here.

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As Pt314 I do not agree with a good portion of Ron Paul's views (as listed by lundbaek).  He'll probably get his views aired more going this route.  He's too much an isolationist for my tastes.  And fears over the Amero and North American Union are without basis.

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TitusTodd wrote:

As Pt314 I do not agree with a good portion of Ron Paul's views (as listed by lundbaek). He'll probably get his views aired more going this route. He's too much an isolationist for my tastes. And fears over the Amero and North American Union are without basis.


No, actually, there is a good base of support out there for it. There is even a government department dedicated to bringing it about, the Security and Prosperity Partnership, which is drawing up guidelines for integrating the three economies, removing the borders, etc. The European Union started out in much the same way, touted as just an economic partnership. And now it is becoming a pan-european government.
You may disagree that the evidence says what Ron Paul thinks it does, but it is intellectually dishonest to say that there is no evidence.

 



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Well, for starters, his web sites need some serious work.  The more I learn about him, the more I like him.  If he does well, the 08 elections might be a tougher decision for me than they have in a long time--comparing Paul with the Libertarian and Constitution party candidates.

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There is even a government department dedicated to bringing it about, the Security and Prosperity Partnership, which is drawing up guidelines for integrating the three economies, removing the borders, etc. The European Union started out in much the same way, touted as just an economic partnership. And now it is becoming a pan-european government.
Actually, to date no one has provided any evidence.  There was a link provided to a website that proved none of which is being touted as a move to combine currencies, remove borders and etc.  The absence of evidence to me means there is no basis. Reading meaning into "evidence" is not intellectually honest.

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We must disagree on what evidence is. It is the open, stated purpose of the SPP (read up on it at www.spp.gov) to economically integrate the three countries. I challenge you to dispute that, based on what they themselves say at their website. Such economic integration, as we can see from Europe, will eventually result in an uber-government. The European Union started out as a purely economical union, but it has become much more.
So, provide evidence to dispute these two assertions:
1) The SPP's stated purpose is to economically integrate the three countries
2) Although the European Union was originally touted as a purely economic union, the governmental bodies set up to govern it have taken on many other functions of government, including such things as police work.

BTW, in my mind this sort of thing doesn't really qualify as "free trade". Free trade is trade that is subject to no regulations or only light regulations. NAFTA and CAFTA have established reams of rules and regulations that have to be followed. Under those two, trade has become much more regulated than it was before.

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It is the open, stated purpose of the SPP (read up on it at www.spp.gov) to economically integrate the three countries. I challenge you to dispute that, based on what they themselves say at their website. Such economic integration, as we can see from Europe, will eventually result in an uber-government. 

As stated when this topic first came up, there is absolutely no validation on www.spp.gov for what has been stated in this thread.  I can easily dispute your comment by pointing you directly to the website and asking you to quote where it states its purpose is to economically integrate the three countries in the manner presented here.  Here is their stated agenda

What does economic integration mean to you?  Our economies are already intertwined due to the large amount of trade that occurs between us.

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 10:28, 2007-02-05

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Although the European Union was originally touted as a purely economic union, the governmental bodies set up to govern it have taken on many other functions of government, including such things as police work.

Sure, the European Union was originally touted as a purely economic union.  They did so so they could better compete economically with the likes of the US and others.  However, they decided further integration would be to their best benefit.  That is a choice they made to go further.  The further integration was voted upon by its member nations and not done arbitrarily.

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Hot Air Balloon

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Not to mention he's a man with two first names... they never fair well...

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TitusTodd wrote:

It is the open, stated purpose of the SPP (read up on it at www.spp.gov) to economically integrate the three countries. I challenge you to dispute that, based on what they themselves say at their website. Such economic integration, as we can see from Europe, will eventually result in an uber-government.

As stated when this topic first came up, there is absolutely no validation on www.spp.gov for what has been stated in this thread. I can easily dispute your comment by pointing you directly to the website and asking you to quote where it states its purpose is to economically integrate the three countries in the manner presented here. Here is their stated agenda.

What does economic integration mean to you? Our economies are already intertwined due to the large amount of trade that occurs between us.

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 10:28, 2007-02-05



 Are we reading the same web page? I followed the link you gave, and there are all sorts of indications of economic integration. Setting up the same standards for stock exchange, banking, etc. Making all regulations compatible, coming up with common energy production and distribution, freer movement of goods, etc. all point towards economic integration. I just took all those points off of the web page you linked. An economy is the production, transportation, and sale of goods. Those three factors are all addressed in that summary.

What specific factors would still separate our economies and keep them functioning separately, if all the goals stated on that web page are accomplished?

What we are losing is the ability to set our own economic policy. Soon, all changes will have to be cleared with the other two nations so that our regulations are still compatible. Our economies have had dealings with each other for a long while. If, as a hypothetical example, Mexico sells steel to an auto plant in Detroit. If their costs of production go up, then the cars that auto plant sells are more expensive. That is how a normal economy works. But when that auto plant in Detroit has to use a specific grade of steel because that's the same grade of steel dictated in Mexico for use in the production of cars, that's where we have integrated economies.

I am at a loss to explain why you say there is "absolutely no support". I would think that you could at least look at that information on that web site and see how it could be interpreted to mean that. For instance, I can see where people are coming from who call Joseph Smith a golddigger, even though I don't agree with them. Joseph Smith did work for a guy who was looking for buried treasure. If I were pointing to a Barney the Purple Dinosaur website and saying that that proved the existence of a plan to create an north american union, you could reasonably say that there is no support. But not a website that goes on and on about economic integration, integration of laws, integration of transport systems, integration of banking systems, etc.



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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
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TitusTodd wrote:

Although the European Union was originally touted as a purely economic union, the governmental bodies set up to govern it have taken on many other functions of government, including such things as police work.

Sure, the European Union was originally touted as a purely economic union. They did so so they could better compete economically with the likes of the US and others. However, they decided further integration would be to their best benefit. That is a choice they made to go further. The further integration was voted upon by its member nations and not done arbitrarily.



 And, for the sake of argument, if there was an economic union between Canada, the US, and Mexico, what would happen to prevent them from considering such a step?



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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
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Here's a quote that mentions economic integration specifically - it's a conversation that's going on in the government, not just on conspiracy websites:
According to the web site of the U.S. Senate, Robert Pastor--a former U.S. National Security Council
director--discussing the SPP,
testified:
NAFTA has failed to create a partnership because North American governments have not changed
the way they deal with one another. Dual bilateralism, driven by U.S. power, continue to govern and
irritate. Adding a third party to bilateral disputes vastly increases the chance that rules, not power,
will resolve problems.

This trilateral approach should be institutionalized in a new North American Advisory Council.
Unlike the sprawling and intrusive European Commission, the Commission or Council should be
lean, independent, and advisory, composed of 15 distinguished individuals, 5 from each nation. Its
principal purpose should be to prepare a North American agenda for leaders to consider at
biannual summits and to monitor the implementation of the resulting agreements. It should be an
advisor to the three leaders but also a public voice and symbol of North America. It should evaluate
ways to facilitate economic integration, producing specific proposals on continental issues such as
harmonizing environmental and labor standards and forging a competition policy.

The U.S. Congress should also merge the U.S.-Mexican and U.S.-Canadian interparliamentary
groups into a single “North American Parliamentary Group.


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Here's my point by point opinion on his various positions.

He would oppose the establishment of the North American Union, which has already been agreed upon by President Bush, President Fox and then Prime Minister Martin.


Sounds Good!

He would work to extricate the U.S. from the various trade agreements (e.g., CAFTA, NAFTA) which will continue to permanently lower the amount of available jobs and wage structure for future generations of Americans.

I actually support NAFTA so this one doesn't do much for me.

He has frequently objected to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and considers America’s entry into those wars unconstitutional as well as immoral and would demand that Congress accept its responsibility for declaring the wars or remove American forces from those countries.


Just lost my vote right there.  Sorry Ru Paul.

He has always opposed U.S. membership in the U.N., and would strive to get the U.S. out of the U.N. and get the U.N. out of the U.S.

Excellent!

He would push for a flat tax on income and elimination of certain other taxes such as the inheritance tax.


Sounds good but will never happen.  Too many layers, govt. employees, and accountants to ever get congress to pass this.

He would strive to reign in the abuses of the IRS and abandon the fiat currency which has plunged the true worth of the dollar to new international lows.

Fiat currency?  Don't tell me Ru Paul is a gold standard supporter.  That won't work.  Not enough gold to support a gold standard currency anymore.

He would try to stop American tax dollars from being used to support illegal migrant health care, education, social security and unemployment insurance.


Sounds good once again but has a snowflakes chance in heck of passing congress.

He would resist the adoption of the Amero as our new currency because we would have to equalize our dollar with the Mexican Peso and the Canadian Dollar

I don't think this will happen anyway.

He would do his best to eliminate the Federal Reserve System and such practices as fractional reserve banking which is responsible for the theft of untold amounts of money from the American people..


Uh, I think the Federal Reserve System, while not perfect, is better than no system.

He would resist the private takeover of the internet.

Yea, gotta watch out for those internet conquistadores!

He favours returning to paper ballots in order to ensure the integrity of our elections.


Yea, lets take a step backwards.  We can bank and make purchases online but we can't vote without paper?  There may be the potential for problems with the current system but that means you fix those problems not junk the whole idea.  Why don't we just get rid of anti biotics while were at it.

He would endeavour to halt further increases in social welfare and oppose renewal of such programs as they expire.

That sounds good also.  Of course his social welfare is someone else's sacred cow.

He would at least drastically reduce foreign aid, especially to countries unfriendly to the U.S.

He would enforce laws prohibiting transfer of militarily sensitive technology to avowed enemies like Russia and China, and their allies.

About time!

The problem for me is him calling Iraq and Afganistan an illegal war.  It isn't illegal.  So just on that, he's lost any possible support from me.  Sorry Ru Paul!



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I have read a good deal of the SPP website.  I find nothing to fear from what I have read.  What I see is economic cooperation not a loss of economic sovereignty for any of the countries involved.  I do not see validation that we're going to create a common currency and a North American Union as part of an economic integration - this is the means I refer to for economic integration.  Our economies are already "integrated" to a level and SPP proposes making that more efficient in addition to working together on common concerns such as security and the environment.  There is a nifty Myths and Facts section I recommend reading.

I see a lot being read into the information on the SPP website beyond what is actually there.  I favor greater economic cooperation between North American countries.  A stronger regional economy helps everyone.  Can you imagine what a Mexico with a stronger economy would do for us?  Perhaps our illegal immigrant issues would relieved?

 And, for the sake of argument, if there was an economic union between Canada, the US, and Mexico, what would happen to prevent them from considering such a step?


If there was an economic union between Canada, the US and Mexico (not proposed by the SPP) the people of this country would prevent our going to the next step.  I have yet to see a lot of support for an economic union much less one that goes beyond that at this point in our existence as a country and don't forsee that changing for some time.

As more economic competition grows from such places as China and perhaps India in the future with a smaller possibility from the EU - we can't isolate ourselves.  If we don't involve our neighbors in improving the flow of trade, the EU, China and etc. will. 

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 15:05, 2007-02-05

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I'm not voting for Ron Paul because it's not expressly prescribed in the Constitution.


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fear of shiz wrote:




 Shiz, you should be overjoyed! I'm ready to vote republican this next election if Ron Paul wins the nomination.



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I pray you vote Republican anyway, Arbi. 

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Regarding Robert Pastor - what does he have to do with the SPP?  Absolutely nothing.  His comments are merely his opinion.  He is currently a professor at American University.  He has no connection to the SPP or the Bush administration.  Here is a quote from Mr. Pastor himself regarding his comments on a North American Union:

“Each of the proposals I have laid out represent (sic) more than just small steps,” Pastor proclaimed. “But it doesn’t represent a leap to a North American Union or even to some confederation of any kind. I don’t think either is plausible, necessary or even helpful to contemplate at this stage.” 


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It would require a constitutional amendment to do something as drastic as merging us with Mexico and Canada. I am not too worried about it.

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Pt314 wrote:

It would require a constitutional amendment to do something as drastic as merging us with Mexico and Canada. I am not too worried about it.


Except that lately they haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the Constitution. One example being Pres. Bush's recent statement that he has all the authority he needs to randomly open and read mail. There was a time when postal mail (he wasn't talking email, that's been monitored for a long time) was protected under the Constitution, and they needed a warrant to read it. Now they don't bother with warrants.



-- Edited by arbilad at 16:45, 2007-02-23

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