Glumirk,

Your friend needs to go to his / her ecclesiastical authority.  Just talking to you will not help him out in the long run.  Unless you are related to the individual, you have no stewardship or responsibility to help him / her, and he / she knows that he / she has no accountability to you.  Do you have any sort of relationship with him / her other than being that of a friend (e.g. you aren't dating or engaged, are you?)?

Pornography is (or can easily become if not already) an addiction, just as drugs or alcohol or other things.  The problem is approached from a different mind set by men and women, so that is one thing you need to be aware of, and why it is probably best you support your friend best by having him / her go to his / her bishop.  Then, if the bishop asks you to help, then be there for the individual.  This can be a wonderful opportunity for you to learn how to forgive as this individual goes through the repentance process and comes free.  But, don't be naive and let the individual use you as a replacement for the proper ecclesiastical counseling and proper confession.  If there really is a problem or addiction, without that proper confession, he / she will only be rationalizing and could essentially be further entrenching him / her self in the habit instead of changing and repenting.

The Church put out a booklet recently called "Let Virtue Garnish They Thoughts" on overcoming the addiction and problem.  Our Elder's Quorum actually just had a lesson centered on it this past Sunday.  http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=10151&productId=4099276460822271724&langId=-1&sortId=3&sortOr=1&sTerm=virtue&sNVPs=%26beginIndex%3D0%26pageSize%3D200%26searchTerm%3Dvirtue%26searchType%3DANY%26sType%3DSimple%26pageId%3D1%26pageCt%3D15&retURLtext=Back%20to%20'virtue'%20search&retURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ldscatalog.com%2Fwebapp%2Fwcs%2Fstores%2Fservlet%2FCatalogSearchResultView%3FcatalogId%3D10151%26amp%3BstoreId%3D10151%26amp%3BlangId%3D-1%26beginIndex%3D0%26pageSize%3D200%26searchTerm%3Dvirtue%26searchType%3DANY%26sType%3DSimple%26pageId%3D1%26pageCt%3D15%26sortId%3D3%26sortOr%3D1

Other URL's from Provident Living put out by The Church:

http://www.providentliving.org/channel/0,11677,2872-1,00.html

http://www.providentliving.org/ses/media/articles/0,11275,2875-1---65,00.html

Ditto to what Ray said.  As typical, he is more succinct and to the point.

I just want to add two things directly to you as the third party to his / her struggle:

1.  Don't let your compassion for the individual get in the way of pointing the individual in the right direction for repentance, healing, and cleansing.  That can only come through the proper guidance of one's priesthood leader. 

2.  Likewise, as you have right / wrong / indifferent now been confided in to some degree by this individual, do not let your revulsion and disgust at the sin and the nature thereof get in the way of loving the individual with Christ-like love.  One of the first things to be lost by an individual who gets caught up in the cycle of pornography addiction after a feeling of being worthy for the Spirit to be with them is that the feeling that they are loved or worthy of being loved, and hence the individual often no longer even loves themself and they sink further.  One who has fallen into that trap set by Satan can once again learn to love themself and forgive themself when they see others loving them and forgiving them in conjunction with the confirmation via the Spirit of The Savior's love and forgiveness as they repent and become worthy to feel The Spirit's influence again.

Then most definitely get him to the bishop. You go too. Talk to your bishop about your feelings. Marriage is an eternal commitment. Talk to your bishop about your feelings. YOu are on the threshhold of a very important experience. This is part of it.

I agree with the "wait" idea. YOu may even want to tell him that you intend to wait until he has his life under control, and he decides what he wants... a live girl or the image of one.

Men and women view each other differently. Men are very prone to visual stimulation, and have very external physical senses, while women are less prone to external stimulation which leaves them more capable of controlling their lusts because they associate lust with their feelings and their overall sense of self. Again don't get bogged down in his sin. Just have high "temple" standards and tell this good fellow that you expect him to resolve all his issues with his bishop prior to allowing your relationship to progress.

There will be times in your marriage when you will need him to be faithful to him, when you can't be there to quell his own physical needs (like when you're nine months pregnant with his child) and you will need him to be there for you spiritually too... He needs to have this sort of thing resolved to some degree and behind him, or else he may end up falling in the times when you need him the most.

You are right to have doubts, that's what sin does. But I wholeheartedly endorse you going to talk with your bishop about your feelings, and about when it is appropriate to forgive. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a young man who hasn't been exposed to pornography to some degree or another, and it may be he is being harder on himself, because he respects you, or heck, it could be out of some nihilistic sense of sabotaging the good things in his life... who knows... whatever the case...

Go to the Bishop. Go to your bishop... go to his bishop... counsel together... and be up front about your expectations of temple worthiness.

--Ray

 

-- Edited by rayb at 09:58, 2006-12-08

glumirk wrote:

---

Thanks for the support...I guess I kind of knew that I should send him to the bishop, but I didn't feel it was my place really. He says that he wants to stop because he realized that it's not fair to me. I reminded him that it's not fair to himself or the Lord either, and those are the people who matter more.

I want to be there for him, but I don't know if I should still date him. Maybe that's something for the bishop and I to figure out...

This is sooo hard...

---

He may have a way to go to come free of it.  You have to be aware that this may be a habit, and in this sort of thing, it is very easy for those caught up in it to say the right thing and make the rationalizations to hide it.  You can't force him to go to his Bishop, because he can still deny it if he has not hit rock bottom and determined he needs to repent and lets the godly sorrow work on him.  He needs to go of his own volition.  It is just part of the nature of this sort of problem.  That is where you can encourage him.  Go with him.  But, you would be doing him a great disservice by "turning him in" unless there are sins of a greater nature involved.

Hate to say it, but if your relationship suffers and ends, that is one of the consequences he has to deal with in his repentance.  I would say it should be a matter of sincere prayer for you as to whether you continue to date.  The Bishop is not a part of your relationship, and won't be even during the repentance process.  I'm not saying you should make this a deal breaker, but for some women it can be and that is their right.  In other situations, something like this can actually draw people closer together as they work together (under the Bishop's counsel) to overcome a weakness or sin that has encumbered one of them.

One of the things that he has to go through is to learn to be totally honest again.  With himself, with the Lord, and with you (if he and you intend on continuing the relationship).  That he has trusted you enough to indicate to you that he has a problem is a good sign he would like to hold on to you, but beyond that, the repentance process and accountability needs to be with his Priesthood leader, his Bishop.  Until such time as (and if) you two ever marry, you are not to be the individual he needs to report to on his progress or slip ups.  He can, but that doesn't replace the proper order of things he needs to follow.  He is fooling himself if he thinks he will come free without honest and open dialogue with his Bishop (at school and later in his home ward when school is out).  And then, even if you two do marry, you don't replace the Bishop from that standpoint, you suppliment.

Good luck!  Have hope!  It can be overcome, but he has to become his own catalyst to make it stick! 

Well said bok!

Drilling down a bit, until a person actually goes beyond the point of making confession to their bishop and forsakes the behavior, the individual is really only paying lip service to it.  Remember, Christ taught that one who repents will confess and forsake.  And, if Satan can convince one that the confession is the harder of the two, well he can easily convince that things afterwards aren't all that bad since one has talked to the Bishop and came away feeling better about themself.  That is part of how Satan fools those that are involved through the rationalizations, particularly since the repentance process means overcoming the impulses for the chemical rushes that are generated in the brain.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the chemical rush (many start to think it is evil), but it is only supposed to come from within the bounds The Lord has set.  Otherwise, the reason it ends up tearing apart is because it becomes counterfeit to what the physiologic, emotional, and spiritual response should be as intended by The Lord.  With out forsaking the sin and associated behavior, the repentance is never complete, and the individual is never able to realize the words of Moroni in Ether 12:27

And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Confession is only the start.  It is after that, while coming to grips with the weakness and humbling one's self to exercise the faith in The Lord necessary to overcome and forsake, when unconditional love with firm support and frank forgiveness by loved ones helps the individual maintain resolve and avoid future slip ups.

The Heart-t-Heart (LDS 12 step organization) has a forum specifically for spouses of sex addicts, which include some who are addicted to porn.  You can go there and read what some of them are going through.  Maybe get some perspective. 

http://heart-t-heart2.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=031eba5b59c88a2f457153f80f24cb72

I guess I did just kind of leave you guys hanging. Well, he fell last on a Monday night, told me Tuesday night, and then on Sunday night while we were talking, it came up that he should go to the Bishop. When I first met his dad, he gave me a hint that I had to let him come up with things himself, otherwise he'll rebel a little. So, I took the conversation to a spiritual level, made sure he was doing ok, and he asked me if he needed to go see the Bishop. I told him that I would think so, but it was really up to him to decide if that needed to be part of the repentence process. He saw the Bishop on Wednesday, and has been doing really well ever since. He's looked once since then, and is tempted, but he's getting stronger every day. So much stronger, that he called it his "ex-problem" the last time I checked up on him. His Bishop actually said that the best way to avoid the temptations is that when they come, he needs to remember where he wants to be, and that pornography will deter him from getting there. He wasn't in too deep as he'd only just started (he had only been off his mission for 3 months when he told me, and it wasn't a problem then). He also reminded him that the temple is a good place to go to remember where you are going, and suggested that he go more often.

I would say that we have taken a problem and tried to find the best way to learn and grow from it. In fact, as we try to avoid any temptations as we are dating, we grow together and have more fun than just kissing.

Now we are both trying to live life in a way that when we do make the decision to get married, the Spirit will be encouraging, and we will be able to continually grow spiritually together as well as grow old together. The Spirit is still telling us "not yet", so we are aiming to grow together as much as we can so that we will have a nice firm relationship to start off a marriage with. And believe it or not, the fact that he told me every time he almost fell, has made is so that I know that I can trust him. He says that now the temptation just makes him feel so bad when he thinks about what he's doing to me. I always let him know that I don't want to be the only reason, but I guess it's ok as long as he wouldn't fall again if we broke up. I let him know from the beginning that I'd be there for him through this, and that I was continually praying to know if it were coming to a point where I needed to break things off with him. The experience has actually brought us closer together. I wouldn't suggest it to anyone, but in the end it's all been good, and we've gone to the temple at least to do baptisms and confirmations(or he'll go early to do a session before we do baptisms) once a month since the problem was revealed. And that fear of him falling again keeps us both in check physically as we date, so we are doing really well.

It's true...with the Lord's help weaknesses really do become strengths.

Yay for Repentance!

Thanks for the encouraging update Glumirk!  I hope that things continue to improve and that your dearest wishes come true. 

Glumirk:

Wow, he is very lucky... but keep the Savior and His Atonement at the forefront of your relationship.  He will need to take steps... perhaps filtering software to help him.

If you were my daughter, I'd tell you to take it slow with him.  He needs to be free from this for a good 6 months and even then he will have to watch himself.  It is a horrid addiction -- feeding the mind sewer sludge, but with the Savior there is always hope.

M