I voted for the "disappointing last book."  I wasn't real impressed by book six, and I don't expect a satisfying conclusion in book seven.  But maybe I am just jaded by the utter monstrosity that was the Star Wars Prequels.  You betrayed me, George! 

I went with Harry Potter and the Last Horcrux simply because it sounded "mysterious".  I haven't read any of the books, although we have all the movies that have gone out on DVD.

So, if 7 is the last one, and the talk is comparison to Star Wars, do you think Rawlings (is that her name?) and her publishers are going to come out in a couple years with a prequel septology to show how Voldemort was really a good guy at one time when he was still Tom Marvelo but was turned to the dark side by the evil influence of the guy who founded Slitherin House, and then we find that Voldemort was actually the father of Harry and in a fit of rage while fighting against his former mentor, Dumbledore, accidently chokes his secret wife to near death, and then we have the surprise plot twist to find out that Harry had a fraternal twin sister (who is actually Hermione)?

I think we need to get some no name red shirts into the plot so that they can get killed off... maybe even have a cameo by William Shatner to show that when Kirk "died" he didn't really "die" but was transported by magic to Hogwarts and has since been trying to contact Spock since there are no space babes for him to go after...

Oh, good grief, you guys. Is nothing sacred anymore? I shall barricade myself in my own little bastion of Harry Potter fandom. Book 7 will be awesome!!!!

*I thought the title options were hilarious.

**My bastion shall henceforth be known as the Pillar of Storge.

I think there will be pressure on Rawlings to come up with more after book 7 because of the profitability of the Harry Potter franchise.  Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing some additional books in that universe even if not done by Rawlings but if I was an author I would have a difficult time letting others in (even with a big paycheck with it).

We are anxious for the book 7 and the next movie.  We make sure we read the books first so the movie scenes don't replace those of our imagination.  I read the books to my oldest son, accents, voices and everything.

rayb wrote:

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I agree with Euph. I think it's gonna be great... Oh and Harry Potter's Scar is the last Horcrux!!!

 

--Ray

 

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Vile Heresy!

But it contradicts so much of what's in the books if the last horcrux is his scar. There's so much I'd like to write if I had time, which I don't at the moment. But, for me, one of the convincing things is that Dumbledore states that Voldemort is most likely unaware of the state of his horcruxes, but Harry's scar gives him two way communication with Voldemort. Oh, there's so much to say, but I don't have time.

It's the scar. Besides Dumbledore probably wouldn't tell Harry the truth about his scar...

The big question is whether he dies in order to stop voldamort, or if he just loses his powers or something like that.

 

Btw, Rowling revealed waaaaay back when she was just gaining popularity with her first books, the last word in the 7th book is supposed to be the word "Scar".

 

--Ray

 

Actually I think when JK originally started this series she intended HP's scar to be a much bigger deal than it has been in the series as a whole. The book sort of starts out that way... I think she expected to use it as a source of teen angst, for example, but dropped that theme for a while because the story got so interesting in so many other ways as she filled in all the details... I bet she will make a big deal of the scar now for this last book, really return to that theme that she's sorta put aside for all the HP delights she's spent her time with lately, and will try to make it a central part of the story again.

--Ray

TitusTodd wrote:

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  Could be.  I haven't really explored it but on first mention it sounds good.  I would look forward to your points arbilad so get yourself unbusy!

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Ok, ok. I should be upstairs making pies for thanksgiving right now, but I'll post Harry Potter stuff.

First, Ray, why would Dumbledore not tell Harry Potter? Because he didn't want to scare him prematurely? Dumbledore was smart enough to know that there was a significant chance of someone killing him (dumbledore). He stated himself that he was past holding the truth from Harry. He knew that every word mattered. Further, he devoted the vast majority of his time and energy to defeating Voldemort. He wasn't even much of a headmaster the last year because he was always off searching for horcruxes. Destroying the horcruxes is of utmost importance to defeating Voldemort. If he even suspected that Harry was a horcurx (or the scar; let's not get into a semantics game), then he would have told him, because it is vital to the overthrow of Voldemort. And Dumbledore had plenty of opportunity to discover if the scar was a horcurx. He had available to him all the information available to us, plus more. He had worked on horcrux detection techniques, he could read Harry's thoughts as easily as words in a book.

Anyway, here are other reasons why I think that Harry (or the scar) cannot possibly be a horcrux:

• Horcruxes can exert influence. This was proven in the case of the diary. Yet Harry has never, in his life, experience periods where he remembers nothing, such as Ginny did with the diary.
  
• Harry is said to contain a force (love) that is unbearable to Voldemort. Voldemort couldn't posess him for that reason. Yet we are to believe that a piece of his soul, which ostensibly represents the very essence of Voldemort's being, has been able to withstand that same force with ease for 15 years?
  
• The timing just does not work. Voldemort had no reason to believe or suspect that the killing curse would not kill Harry. He admits to that himself. Since most grown wizards, even trained Aurors, cannot defend themselves against the killing curse, we must assume that it operates very quickly, and that it would rebound equally quickly. The Harry as a Horcrux theory would have us believe that, in the split second that the spell took to rebound, Voldemort in a feverish rush completed casting the horcrux spell, which then either on purpose or accidentally created a horcrux in Harry or his scar. I don't think the spell could be cast that quickly. And I don't think that the spell would be cast that quickly. Voldemort is very arrogant. He would have been very confident of his victory and wouldn't have been in a rush.
  
• Harry has had a special kind of magic that, up until Voldemort's resurrection, prevented ol' Voldy thing from even touching him. Yet that protection, which kept even the killing curse from killing Harry, is supposed to have totally failed to protect him from being made a horcrux. That seems like an awful lot of harm to me, and it seems extremely inconsistent if one moment it protects him from being killed, and the next moment allows him to be a receptacle for the soul of a dark wizard.
  
• It makes the end very tricky to work. Either ol' Voldy pants or Harry must be vanquished at the hand of the other. In every case so far of a Horcrux being destroyed, it has taken very powerful magic, such as the fang of a legendary mythical beast or the abilities of the most powerful wizard of modern times. In every case it has destroyed the vessel that the horcrux was in. For Harry to vanquish Voldemort, he needs to get to the fight alive. So if he is a horcrux (or his scar is), he needs to accomplish what Dumbledore was incapable of; destroying a horcrux but leaving the vessel intact.
  
• J K Rowling has said that when she wants to tell the reader something, she does it through dumbledore. She has further said that his guesses are never far off the mark. Dumbledore was almost certain of the nature of most of the horcruxes, and only fairly confident that the last horcrux was Nagini. For Harry to be a horcrux, Dumbledore would have to have been very wrong about the nature of one of the horcruxes.
  

That's all I can think of for now. There's much more.

-- Edited by arbilad at 22:17, 2006-11-22

 Valdamort told Harry that his mother didn't HAVE TO DIE... and to create a horcrux, you must murder, and by committing murder you rend your soul, and what had just happened before he went to kill the baby? He'd killed Harry's mother prematurely.

IMO, Voldie, was weakened by the experience enough that the baby (who was to be the final target of his malice to create the final horcrux, managed to screw things up... something went wrong with the spell... ) and mother's spell ruined his final attempt.

I don't think Voldie even knows that HP is the 7th.

A theme in HP is that it doesn't matter how you're born, YOU define your own destiny, by the choices you make. Imagine then, a baby with such a horrible power over you... and Dumbledore's constant insistence to Harry that he doesn't have to embrace evil--that such things are choices.

It's a great image.

There is one more possbility that occurs to me. What if HP (or his scar) is the EIGHTH Horcrux? Nagini might be the seventh, but then Harry as a baby somehow became the eighth which Isn't supposed to be possible.   This would probably have the effect upon Voldamort that he describes, where because he had been killing things, he'd already rent his soul and in so doing his mother mixed up Voldie's plans enough to cause VOldie to overreach, and do what one should never do, create more than 7 horcruxes... this would nearly obliterate the great sorceror...

(I really like this, my new, theory... :) )

 

--Ray

 

 

 

 

 

But Dumbledore stated that if you murder with magic you rend your soul. So his soul had been rent prematurely with Mom's death.  He was going to kill Harry, and he probably had one last horcrux to make. Perhaps he intended to put it somewhere near the baby, or something he took with him near the baby...  Whatever the case, Voldamort never had time to hide the last object he intended to make into a horcrux.

Something went wrong, we know that much is true. I would be careful assuming that anything Voldemort says is true, because he really doesn't know what clobbered him. His mother's "love power" certainly had an effect upon him, but was it enough to completely obliterate Voldie? I dunno... whatever the case it'll be interesting to read. :)

--Ray

 

There is one more possbility that occurs to me. What if HP (or his scar) is the EIGHTH Horcrux? Nagini might be the seventh, but then Harry as a baby somehow became the eighth which Isn't supposed to be possible. This would probably have the effect upon Voldamort that he describes, where because he had been killing things, he'd already rent his soul and in so doing his mother mixed up Voldie's plans enough to cause VOldie to overreach, and do what one should never do, create more than 7 horcruxes... this would nearly obliterate the great sorceror...

For this to be true, Dumbledore would have to be very wrong about his guess. And the author said that he is never far off in his guesses.

Well of course it's all speculation, and we're all focused on the whereabouts of the horcruxes, but honestly it's about the only way I can think (seeing as how she's set up this method throughout the series as a way to explain it) how do you explain Harry's mindlink with Voldamort? That's why I can't leave the horcrux thing alone.

There's a connection there somewhere. Obviously we don't know the whole story, but it's evident to me that books can only be so long, and if JK Rowling is going to wrap up this whole mess within the limitation of the pages and explain the nature of the link of HP and Voldie, she's going to have to use what she's already put down in the previous books. She doesn't have time to introduce a whole new concept--I don't think... I don't think the story would hold if she did... and frankly, I'd be disappointed in her as an author to throw some random explanation in there at the end.

I think we have most of the pieces already, we just have to put them together. So I've put them together this way.

--Ray

 

 

In addition, I'll add my pet theory: Dumbledore isn't really d e a d.



-- Edited by bokbadok at 15:30, 2006-11-30

rayb wrote:

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Well of course it's all speculation, and we're all focused on the whereabouts of the horcruxes, but honestly it's about the only way I can think (seeing as how she's set up this method throughout the series as a way to explain it) how do you explain Harry's mindlink with Voldamort? That's why I can't leave the horcrux thing alone.

There's a connection there somewhere. Obviously we don't know the whole story, but it's evident to me that books can only be so long, and if JK Rowling is going to wrap up this whole mess within the limitation of the pages and explain the nature of the link of HP and Voldie, she's going to have to use what she's already put down in the previous books. She doesn't have time to introduce a whole new concept--I don't think... I don't think the story would hold if she did... and frankly, I'd be disappointed in her as an author to throw some random explanation in there at the end.

I think we have most of the pieces already, we just have to put them together. So I've put them together this way.

--Ray

 

 

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That is one of the reasons why I believe that the scar can't be a horcrux. We are told that ole Voldy thing has no sense of what's happening with his horcruxes. They could be used as fishing lures, plunged into the depths of the sun, or whatever, and he wouldn't know. When he found out what happened with the diary, for instance, he was incensed. He hadn't known before, and the knowledge of what happened to it made him very angry.

So, if he has no knowledge of what happens to them, it would seem very unlikely that he would have a special telepathic connection with any of them. He can inhabit the body of snakes, so that explains why Harry was able to witness the attack on Mr. Weasley. The only thing we know is that a horcrux in a living thing gives the creator of the horcrux more control over that living thing. But we never see Voldie thing having any special control over Harry.

And, to be honest, before the Horcrux thing, were you really worried about having the scar connection explained to you? There are many things that authors never explain. If it isn't central to the resolution, people typically don't get too upset if the author never explains it. For instance, are you going to be terribly worried if she doesn't explain how the twins almost got Ron into an unbreakable vow, even before they were issued wands or knew how to control their magical powers? It's not going to be earth shattering if that's never explained. If she doesn't explain why Harry's scar gives him a special connection, but it's not central to the resolution of book 7, are you going to be crushed?

But your point about how Voldie doesn't know about the nature of the horcrux actually plays into my point all the more... especially about how he couldn't foresee what would happen when their wands both entangled. It would only serve to indicate that he doesn't know nor did know that HP had a connection to him.

The whole explanation about the horcrux says nothing about the nature of the horcrux's frame of reference, and only indicates Voldamort's perspective.

--Ray

Well, it turns out that we were all wrong. The official title announced today was (and I kid you not) "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows".
I've heard various interpretations of this so far. To sum up, they are:

• Hallow is a synonym for "hollow", and may refer to Godric's Hollow.
  
• "Hallow" as a synonym for "Saint", so the title roughly means "Deathly Saints", or maybe "Holy or Revered Dead"
  
• "Hallow" referring to a holy object, such as the items that King Arthur were questing for. This would obviously refer to the Horcruxes Harry is searching for.
  

I lean towards the horcrux interpretation myself.

I agree with Euph. ... and Harry Potter's Scar is the last Horcrux!!!

--Ray

PS> Btw, I think Dumbledore did something when he gave his life for Harry that isn't clear yet. I think he probably did something that is the opposite of a horcrux. I was thinking perhaps he did something akin to what his mother had done for him. Whatever the case, I think he did something sneaky.

 

You all are missing the point... Dumbledore's death has nothing to do with anything other than the fact he found out what soylent green is made out of!

Based off what y'all are saying, I actually turned out being closest to what the actual title turned out to be / means... Therefore, mark my words... Harry is gonna wake up without the scar... bwa-ha-ha

Oh I can't wait to rub this one in your nose... Euph...

--Ray

arbilad wrote:

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rayb wrote:

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Oh I can't wait to rub this one in your nose... Euph...

--Ray

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Likewise.
I think I'll save this post, in fact. In fact, even if you delete it, I'll restore it!
It doesn't make sense logically or according to the story line to have Harry (or his scar) be a Horcrux. Granted, the author can do anything she likes, including having Harry save the day by mind melding with Mr. Spock and using his powers to win. Of course, she'd get sued for that one. And leave many disappointed fans. But she's the one writing it.

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She wouldn't get sued if she signed a deal with Paramount in which she could bring Spock into the story... I mean, the producers over there have tried a whole host of things to try and keep bringing in the revenue from that tired franchise... what was the last thing they tried?  Bringing in the Quantum Leap guy as the first guy to captain an Enterprise and then try to regurgitate every single sort of plot and story that had been redone time and time again on all the other series?

Oh, wait, we're talking Harry Potter, right?  Well, we could find out that the last Horcrux was actually Harry's pair of glasses that keep getting broken.  In an act of utter desparation since he is upset that Hermione likes Ron better than him, Harry refuses to let Hermione do that little oculus repairus spell.  He finds that his health care benefit does cover LASIK, and figures that is what he needs to win her heart... no more glasses.  After waiting for 6 months for a slot to open up in his country's socialized medicine queue, he goes to the optomitrist at Diagon Alley, who unfortunately has suffered a devestating loss when he found that his familiar (a rat) is not really a person under a spell to look like a rat but actually, well, just a common sewar rat.  It turns out the optomitrist is Neville Longbottom, who had gotten kicked out of Hogwarts for one too many accidents in the labs...  Harry unaware that Neville has turned the laser on, trying to show Neville his broken glasses since he didn't have his eye prescription, holds the glasses up at the most inopportune time, thus refracting the laser beam with the lenses onto the side of his forehead that does not have a scar.  Within milliseconds, the room is overcome with the stench of burning flesh as the laser burns a hole in the lens and Harry's skull. 

No.

Dang... I was just at Barne's and Noble while waiting for a tire to be fixed next door at the tire shop and saw the sign for reserving a copy of book seven and they had the title, but I forgot to memorize what the title was.    I think one of the words after Harry Potter in the title started with an H though... 

Oh well, I still have to start reading book 1, someday...  

Must resist temptation to edit Ray's comment and insert "I, Ray, admit that Arbilad is probably right, and I just wasn't thinking through the issue sufficiently."