Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: No homework?


Head Chef

Status: Offline
Posts: 4439
Date:
No homework?


There is a growing movement to eliminate homework. There are people who say that it actually has a negative effect on learning. I can see truth on both sides. I think that kids burn out from too much work, and frequently kids have very little time after completing their homework. In fact, I often hear stories of kids who come home and do nothing but homework, but their teacher complains that they're not getting their assignments done. I think that comprehension is more important than repetition, although that also has its value.
However, I see the other side too; it's useful to write reports, and I don't know that class time is the best use of that. Just to pick one example.
Of course, it's a moot point for my son. Absolutely all of his schooling is homework

__________________
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
- Samuel Adams


Understander of unimportant things

Status: Offline
Posts: 4126
Date:

I have no problem with homework, as long as it is meaningful homework to practice and reinforce the skills that are being taught in class, and not just the latest "method" for teaching a skill.  Homework should never be busy work (regardless of if you are in kindergarten or at a postdoctorate level per order of Cat Herder), and it should not be so all consuming of a child's time.  And, homework assignments should be basic enough that parents can actually give meaningful assistance to the child if they have problems or questions without the parent having to learn whatever "trick" or "method" the teacher is using.  I don't know how many times I have spent untold wasted time, confusing myself and my children, just trying to understand the directions and "method" the teacher is using and expecting them to use to come up with an answer.  Very counterproductive when a child spends more time on trying to remember the "tool" than in actually looking at what is the question and determining what the outcome is supposed to be.


My beefs beyond that are two fold: 


First:  Teachers that require the children in their class to read just for reading sake alone (not required reading relevant to the class, like books for book reports or stuff for an English or other literature class) and then grade them according to the time they log at home doing so... okay, forced reading for pleasure?  What are you really teaching a child?  Read because you have to, not because you want to!?  If a person is only reading because they have to, they will view reading as a chore, and when they get to the age in high school or college where they have to, literally have to, read dry scholarly textbooks, it will be that much harder for them to say "Woohooo!" at the prospect and more likely that it will be a major "DOOOOOHHHHH!"  This practice of requiring students to read for pleasure and then grade them on it I think actually works long term in the opposite.  Hmmm... since it does, I wonder why we don't implement it in TV watching... force them to watch TV because their grade depends on it and that will create a natural aversion to watching so much TV... of course, this is coming from someone who read read encyclopedias for fun (and not because he was told to) when he was a kid...


The other beef is not getting course outlines or syllabi for classes from teachers (middle school and higher) that show what subject matter will be covered and what the assignments are and when they are due.  I have a friend in my ward who used to teach high school, and he kind of defended it by stating "teachers want to be flexible".  He also indicated a lot of teachers don't know what they will be teaching a week from now.  I'm thinking... hmmm.  That really sounds professional.  You know what the course is, and obviously the school department they are teaching in has set objectives and some sort of basic curriculum requirements.  Get organized and put together at least a general outline and a list of assignments and due dates.  Is that too much to ask?  Obviously, for a lot of "modern" teachers, it is.  But, teachers also complain that they don't get the support they need from parents.  Well, how are parents supposed to support the learning effort in school if they have no clue as to what the teacher is covering and what assignments are and their due dates?  I remember typically getting syllabi for nearly every core sort of class I had from 7th grade on.  I guess they don't do that anymore as a rule.



__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."


Senior Bucketkeeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 1626
Date:

I'm not familiar with research about older students, but I can speak with some intelligence about younger kids.


Jean Piaget, whose theories and research on child development have been arguably the biggest influence on elementary education in the US, emphasized the importance of play for children's development.  He articulated this concept over fifty years ago and with his colleagues supported it with scholarly research that continues today. 


In spite of that, the trends in public education over the past generation have been toward less time for play and more time spent on academics in school, and more homework which cuts into play time that kids should be having at home.  While that kind of focus on academic achievement  may be good for politics, it is developmentally inappropriate and some theorists would say even harmful to young children.


My own belief is that homework is rarely necessary for elementary students.  Teachers should be able to easily meet the content standards during classtime.  Homework should be available as an extension for those students who show interest in a particular topic or project--preferably one that is student-selected.


Cat, the research on childhood literacy supports your beef #1:  Children who are "forced" to read develop negative attitudes toward reading.  A child's view of herself as a good reader, who self-selects material to read for a variety of purposes, is one of the critical determiners of literacy competence.  There is a huge difference between forcing kids to read and encouraging kids to read.


Cat, for your beef #2:  Most districts provide pacing guides for teachers-- a kind of timeline that outlines about where a teacher should be in teaching the curriculum content through the year.  Good teachers will communicate with children and parents about the schedule, upcoming projects, etc.  However, there are those "sieze the day" moments that come along when a teacher might significantly alter the content to take advantage of student interest while still meeting objectives.


If you can't get the information you want from the teacher, go up the chain until you get what you're asking for.  You have an absolute right to be involved in your child's education.  You also have the right to review your child's academic records (including informal notes and assessments kept by the teacher) at any time.  Teachers should be willing to work with you to address any concerns you have with your child's education.



__________________

The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck



Understander of unimportant things

Status: Offline
Posts: 4126
Date:

Roper wrote:



...the trends in public education over the past generation have been toward less time for play and more time spent on academics in school, and more homework which cuts into play time that kids should be having at home.  While that kind of focus on academic achievement  may be good for politics, it is developmentally inappropriate and some theorists would say even harmful to young children.





I think the thought behind this phenomena is likely, hey look at how badly we're getting beaten by the people in ________ (fill in the blank country) in _________ (fill in the blank subject) and they are starting to eclipse is in _________ (fill in the blank hi-tech field).  In order to compete and catch up, we therefore need to start imitating their educational culture, which includes longer days at school, more homework, etc., etc.  But, what has not been taken into account is the long term detrimental effect this has on families and social structure in our culture as well as the cultures of ________ and __________ (fill in the blank countries).



Roper wrote:





Cat, for your beef #2:  Most districts provide pacing guides for teachers-- a kind of timeline that outlines about where a teacher should be in teaching the curriculum content through the year.  Good teachers will communicate with children and parents about the schedule, upcoming projects, etc.  However, there are those "sieze the day" moments that come along when a teacher might significantly alter the content to take advantage of student interest while still meeting objectives.


If you can't get the information you want from the teacher, go up the chain until you get what you're asking for.  You have an absolute right to be involved in your child's education.  You also have the right to review your child's academic records (including informal notes and assessments kept by the teacher) at any time.  Teachers should be willing to work with you to address any concerns you have with your child's education.





Well, that about states it (the bold).  The district may be "great", but a lot of the teachers my oldest daughter had in middle school were lousy.  We were honestly afraid she would fail out of school sometimes if things didn't get better.  She didn't enjoy school and few of the teachers were accessible or informative when we did try to talk with them and find out what could be done.  When my friend in the ward, who had been the teacher, privately tutored her, that helped out for that duration and a little afterwards, but didn't fix the problems she was experiencing.  He even was getting frustrated at the lack of communication as he would work with us to get what was necessary to help her get caught up (she had been sick and out of school on a recurring basis) and stay on top of things.


I know the need for "seize the day" flexibility in teaching, but honestly, our oldest daughter seems to have had a whole cadre of teachers in middle school whose whole teaching methodology seemed to have that as the core, especially based on the amount of homework they assigned.  What did they do in class?  There needs to be structure at the core.  And that structure never would get communicated except through "curriculum night" that we never found out about right at the beginning of the school year.  The times we have been able to make it to a "curriculum night" at any of our kids schools (4 kids in school between pre-K and 9th grade, and all 4 are in different schools, oh yeah babe gotta love that!), they have ended up being nothing more than a covering of administrivia, very little substantial as to what would actually be done in the class that semester / year...


We just received the mailed report card from the first grading period of her first year in high school this week.  It is like night and day.  Not all of her teachers there gave syllabi, but the expectations were a bit more clear.  From a girl we were afraid would not be able to qualify for any sort of scholarship for college a year ago, we now have great hope that she will be able to if she keeps her current grades where they are for the next 3 2/3 years!  All A's with one B and one B-.  There are a variety of contributing factors to this I know, but I do have to believe a large one is she has better teachers now.  We even got a post card from one of her teachers saying how proud she was of how she was doing in class.  We never got anything like that in middle school.  We often never even knew there was anything going on until a report card came  home and we had to decrypt the "codes" on the report the respective teacher had indicated.


One thing I don't get about our district's middle and high school programs is that they jip the kids out of a full lunch period (they get at most like 30 - 35 minutes it seems... rush 'em in and rush 'em out so the next group can have lunch), and there is nothing even remotely resembling study hall.  I guess it may have roots in logistics of not having sufficient space, but still...



__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."


Wise and Revered Master

Status: Offline
Posts: 2882
Date:

I am a supporter of schools assigning homework as long as it does not take an unreasonable amount of time or is just busy work.  I hate it when teachers send home word searches for homework.  I hated those when I was in school and thought they were a waste of time.  They were not graded but were required to be turned it.  Just a waste of time.

Currently my 5th grader and my kindergartener both have homework.  My kindergartener's homework involves learning to write letters and numbers and having mom or dad read a story to her.  The assignment for each day is given at the beginning of the week and generally she has them done for the whole week on Monday so it is nothing really bad and the assignments seem like good exercises.


The 5th grader has nightly assignments also with most being spelling or math problems.  Her grades for each assignment are emailed to me on Mondays and she is allowed to redo class assignment as homework if she gets a C or lower on them which I like.  This way if she doesn't understand the work she can work on it again with us.


I think homework is good because it helps my kids develope good habits of doing work after school and not suddenly getting it thrown on them in Junior High or High School.  I had homework in elementary school and I don't think it was overburdensome or time wasting.  If it was I would be the first to talk to the teacher about it.  I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a kid to do some work outside of class.



__________________

God Made Man, Sam Colt Made Him Equal.

Jason



Hot Air Balloon

Status: Offline
Posts: 5370
Date:

Didn't Orson Scott Card write about this on Ornery.org lately?


I don't mind homework. I prefer my kids do homework than watch Teevee. I always check it. Sometimes we discuss the concepts underlying them. I like making up problems for them to try to do. My children don't lack playtime, honestly I think they do more than enough. They also don't need to be entertained by others... often I take them with me to church meetings, and they'll play while I sit in boring meetings.


--Ray


 



__________________
I'm not slow; I'm special.
(Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)


Wise and Revered Master

Status: Offline
Posts: 2882
Date:

rayb wrote:



They also don't need to be entertained by others... often I take them with me to church meetings, and they'll play while I sit in boring meetings.


--Ray


 






Oh, yer one of those type parents.  Thanks mom for making me play endless hours of basketball with that flat ball in the gym at the church when you had Relief Society Presidency Meetings.  ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!



__________________

God Made Man, Sam Colt Made Him Equal.

Jason



Senior Bucketkeeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 1568
Date:

My oldest is a 9th grader (yes technically a Freshman in High school, but still at the Junior High), and she spends too much time on homework, IMO. It varies, but there are days (2-3 per week) where she spends all of her time between 3pm and 10pm, except for practicing piano and dinner + chores, doing homework. She is not fooling around or wasting time. It blows me away. She is not a slow learner, either. This kid is a 4.0 student. So why, for crying out loud, must she spend 6+ hours after school doing projects like coloring climate zone maps for geography?! :murmermumblecurse:

__________________
"My Karma Ran Over My Dogma"


Senior Bucketkeeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 1568
Date:

Oh, and I SOOOOO agree on the lameness of compulsory home-reading logs. I refuse to fill them out. If my kid won't fill them out, then they get a poor percentage on the report card. In elementary school, what's the consequence? : At every parent teacher conference, the teacher notes that my son hasn't turned in any reading logs. I smile and say, "My son read Harry Potter 1,2, and 3 this term, and has started #4. I do not have time to fill out reading logs." Teacher nods and says, "well, good, I'm glad to hear he's reading. We just want to make sure that students are reading."

I wonder, can't the teacher tell when student's reading skills are below par? Don't they test reading level in school? If a kid is testing high, he is obviously reading. So just waive that requirement. I have suggested that before, and teachers haven't challenged me on it.

Is there a negative consequence for imperfect grades below 9th grade? I fail to see why a 4th grader should feel he must jump through every single hoop held out in front of him.

[/rant]

__________________
"My Karma Ran Over My Dogma"


Hot Air Balloon

Status: Offline
Posts: 5370
Date:

It's pretty easy to lose track of your kids reading... and sometimes, especially when it's compulsory, they read the same books over and over... (which means they really didn't read).


--Ray


 



__________________
I'm not slow; I'm special.
(Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 376
Date:

ok, so I haven't read everything that's been said yet, but my friend will be here in two minutes and I wanted to put my 2 cents in really quickly:

Reading logs: pointless. As a kind I was ALWAYS reading, but I would forget what books I had read for my book log, so come the day it was due I would read all of the short books I could find so that I had the list of 10 books for the month. I easily read 25 or more, most of them chapter books, but I'd put the short little books on my log because they were easier. It's a good thing I naturally love to read!

And about homework: I'm actually a fan of homework, if done properly. I feel that homework should be based on what the teacher is teaching in class and what the students will be expected to learn and know. I also think that both of those goals should be in line, so that the homework assignment is heading toward the same goal. I have a class where the teacher throws completely new concepts out of the blue at us in the homework, not once giving us a problem like we learn simply how to do in class, so we spend so much time doing the random assignments that when there is a complex version of the problem he worked out in class on the test, we didn't have time to study it because we were wasting our time on something trivial whereas the goal of the course is concerned. I understand that some problems take a long time, but I think that teachers should assign doable assignments that are really for the learning of the students, not just assignments for assignment's sake.

__________________
Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you. — Oscar Wilde


Senior Bucketkeeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 1568
Date:

Has anyone read these articles about homework?

The Worst Job in the World

Why do we still get homework?

I'm thinking of printing these out and sending them to all of my children's teachers.

__________________
"My Karma Ran Over My Dogma"


Wise and Revered Master

Status: Offline
Posts: 2882
Date:

I have been following those articles and have enjoyed reading them.  At this point my kids homework seems pretty reasonable.  Otherwise I would probably have a parent teacher meeting on the subject.

__________________

God Made Man, Sam Colt Made Him Equal.

Jason



Understander of unimportant things

Status: Offline
Posts: 4126
Date:

My 4th grade daughter just had one of those silly word searchs as graded homework.  The thing about it is they were supposed to find 20 words (didn't have a list of the words either) that contained the "k" sound.  She searched and searched.  I searched and searched.  Mom searched and searched.  Older sister searched and searched.  And all we found were 18 words... and this came from a published workbook.


Oh, the stated purpose of the word search was to "improve their proofreading and identification skills".  Oh puleeze!  :major rolleyes:  Of course this is the same teacher who grades based on quantity of reading that is recorded on the weekly reading log... Older daughter had this teacher for 5th grade four years ago, and I'm remembering now how much I thought the methodology used by her then was pretty lame...



__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."


Wise and Revered Master

Status: Offline
Posts: 2882
Date:

I hope she wasn't graded on that word search.  If not I would have sent it back with a nice note emphasising my manhood via some colorful idiom and metaphors.  If it was graded I would have requested a meeting with the teacher and explain what a complete donky's behind she was for assigning something like that.  Go gettem Cat!

__________________

God Made Man, Sam Colt Made Him Equal.

Jason

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard