Buddy of mine and I use to carpool together. He and his wife divorced, basically, she did not really want to be married to him because he was not "righteous enough" and incompatability issues. They were married for about 30 years, he is about 16-17 years older than I am.
He wondered what it would be like if they both made it to the CK. He does not want to remain with her, they are sealed. He has since remarried, but only civilly, though they are trying to get her sealing undone so they can be sealed.
Before he married again, he figured it would be a great big lottery up there and where the marriages weren't the best, or maybe you would have been better off marrying someone else, or didn't want to be with that spouse because of compatability problems, etc, that some how everybody would be paired up correctly together.
What if both spouses make it, but don't want to be together, or another would be a better choice, or your spouse does not or will not meet your needs and wants? Are you just "stuck (for lack of a better word) with that person?
No, this is not about me. This has just been in my head since he mentioned it and still will talk about it when trying to get issues now straightened out since the divorce and remarriage. I have not given up trying, but will admit that I have wondered.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
I don't think that we will have to spend eternity with anyone we don't want to spend it with.
Also, I have to add, we will be physically perfect. So any mental issues, hormonal issues, whatever, will not be there. That will change some things, don't you think? I look forward to knowing my mother-in-law without her mental problems. I look forward to not contending with my health problems. Won't it be great?
-- Edited by Jen at 12:24, 2008-06-19
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
I agree, Jen, I have just wondered. Makes enduring difficult but just wondered if it was what you have is what you get. I have wondered that on divorce issues as well when two people are sealed but get divorced because they ended up not being compatible.
I always thought it was interesting as you never really know what you will get in a marriage until after you are already married. No real way to kind of kick the tire so to speak.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
We must both make and keep covenants to obtain the promised blessings. What constantly worries me about my own salvation is that I haven't yet made the covenant of being sealed eternally to a wife. It is something that I highly desire, but have had a really tough time finding. I am not searching for Miss Perfection 2008. I haven't rejected anyone for superficial reasons. Not temple worthy, abusive, doesn't know how to handle her money are probably the only absolute deal-breakers. Yet, I am still single, working hard to obtain those highest blessings.
Thus, I have little or no sympathy for someone who has made that covenant and decides to leave it. As Christ told us, if not for adultery, then divorce is permitted today because of the hardness of our hearts, and I don't think hardness of hearts is something that is going to benefit us in any imaginary "lottery".
D&C 131:1-4 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.
We will be judged both by our actions and the intents of our hearts, but our actions are usually led by the intents of our hearts. Divorce is an act that sprang from the intents of our hearts.
As Christ told us, if not for adultery, then divorce is permitted today because of the hardness of our hearts, and I don't think hardness of hearts is something that is going to benefit us in any imaginary "lottery".
-- Edited by Organist at 12:34, 2008-06-19
Well, that is really what I am talking about. You get married and you are mismatched, differences, whatever, but you both live righteously, so are you eternally with someone you don't want to be with? I don't see how hard heartedness is an issue when two people are just too different and can't come together.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
Was it Spencer W. Kimball who said that any two people who are trying hard enough can have a good marriage? Of course that implies both are trying. Also I would think that if two people got married in the first place, they must have had something to go on. No marriage is perfect. . . . there's always crap to work past and through. But if both are trying, a Prophet has promised that there will be joy. The difficulty comes where both aren't trying to meet the other's needs, or one or both are in the bondage of sin.
Of course we can trust Heavenly Father to sort everything out in the end. In the meantime, I can see how it would be pretty dang hard. It's hard enough with both my husband and I trying our best (again not to say that things are perfect, but we definitely want the Forever Package).
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
My father (who was a family law lawyer) had a pet peeve about Mormon wedding invites that stated that so-and-so were getting sealed in the temple. He'd say, "They're not getting sealed. It's a ceremony that promises a sealing in the future if they remain righteous and committed to each other." Granted, he had cause to be a little cynical, but he'd seen too many marriages fail not to be, I suppose.
This makes sense to me, and is how I interpret the phrase "Holy Spirit of Promise" in D&C 132.
I had a roommate in university who felt that temple marriages were overrated, because her mother and stepfather were married in the temple and had an awful marriage. She'd ask, "Why would I want to be married to someone, be miserable in the marriage and be forced to stay with them forever?"
To me, it just seems obvious that Heavenly Father respects our agency far too much to insist we'll stay FOREVER with someone we don't want to be with. To think otherwise is, well, ...odd to me.
And I totally agree with Jen, that we may find that some of the challenges of marriage in mortality may simply not exist once we leave this life. Heavenly Father probably won't ask those who are iffy to make that decision until they see their partner as they truly are - outside the limitations of mortality.
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They might not look it, but bunnies can really take care of themselves.
Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
He wondered what it would be like if they both made it to the CK. He does not want to remain with her, they are sealed. He has since remarried, but only civilly, though they are trying to get her sealing undone so they can be sealed.
Before he married again, he figured it would be a great big lottery up there and where the marriages weren't the best, or maybe you would have been better off marrying someone else, or didn't want to be with that spouse because of compatability problems, etc, that some how everybody would be paired up correctly together.
What if both spouses make it, but don't want to be together, or another would be a better choice, or your spouse does not or will not meet your needs and wants? Are you just "stuck (for lack of a better word) with that person?
No, this is not about me. This has just been in my head since he mentioned it and still will talk about it when trying to get issues now straightened out since the divorce and remarriage. I have not given up trying, but will admit that I have wondered.
First, a man can be sealed to more than one woman. Your friend doesn't have to get his first sealing "undone".
Eternal marriage is reserved for those that make it to the top level in the Celestial Kingdom. And for someone that makes it there, there is no incompatibiliy issues, or you wouldn't be there. So these "what if" questions really are moot.
I tend to think a bit like Organist, having little or no sympathy for people considering divorce for anything but very egregious situations. Having been through a temple divorce, sisters tended to gripe about their husbands to me more than others... like I'd be more "understanding" and I'd encourage them to leave the man or something. When I'd respond with, "You don't know jack **** about a bad marriage," they'd usually go elsewhere with their perceived "problems."
People who are worried about getting a compatible spouse in the CK, one who "meets their needs" are probably not even going to make it to the CK. Just me and my intolerance of the modern day griping about marriages and how "hard" they are.
We covenant with God. Period.
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Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. -John Wayne
What a lovely talk you all had while I was napping.
I used to have similar feeling to Di's college roommate. Of course, that was probably a chunk of the reason I went away from the gospel for a decade. Because of my personal experiences, I found it very hard to want what the church was selling. Thankfully, as I started my own little family, I began to change my mind.
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
He wondered what it would be like if they both made it to the CK. He does not want to remain with her,I've always thought that a portion of what will happen in heaven, is getting rid of our broken parts. So, our parts that get in our way and prevent us from obtaining what's best for us, will be fixed or replaced with working parts.
It's kind of nice, thinking that all of our idiotic parts that make us say stupid things after 30 years of marriage like "He's not righteous enough" or "I don't wanna be together forever" will not follow us into perfection. Assuming we haven't screwed ourselves up enough to keep us out, that is...
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And I'd discuss the holy books with the learned men, seven hours every day. That would be the sweetest thing of all.
It's amazing what we can change our minds about as we increase in righteousness and as time goes on. Scary, but amazing.
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"The promptings of the Holy Ghost will always be sufficient for our needs if we keep to the covenant path. Our path is uphill most days, but the help we receive for the climb is literally divine." --Elaine S. Dalton
A long time ago I received a wonderful, comforting letter from a GA, telling me that in the next world I would still have the freedom to avoid my ex-husband. That being sealed to him here does not condemn me to eternity with him.
The reason he sent this letter was because my bishop was outraged again at the antics of my ex, and started the process for a cancellation of sealings. So we all wrote letters to Salt Lake, and after a while I received this marvellous letter, telling me that it is ok to remain sealed "lest I lose any blessings."
The letter implies that this is a temporary thing, and all will be sorted out later. As we all know, none of us will be exalted unless we become truly Christlike -- as loving and dependable as Heavenly Father, and as self-sacrificing and generous as our Savior. If someone's favorite sin is anger or selfishness or pride, that person either repents completely or they won't be annoying a spouse in the CK. We're all given time to repent, but at some point set by HF, that repentance needs to be achieved.
I'm grateful for the time granted to me because I know I still fall short.
It's amazing what we can change our minds about as we increase in righteousness and as time goes on. Scary, but amazing.
It is even more amazing what changes when we put our spouses first and ourselves second.
I find it very difficult to believe that those who have lived a life worthy of exaltaion would not want to be with a spouse who had also made it. It would seem to me that a true change of heart had not taken place.
are probably not even going to make it to the CK. Just me and my intolerance of the modern day griping about marriages and how "hard" they are.
j/k
