Classifying Sins and Virtues

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Classifying Sins and Virtues

Jen · Senior Bucketkeeper

. . . random! ;)

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I classify sin by how serious they are. Looking around Sac. Mtg. it's clear we Mormons don't look at gluttony as being all that bad. That seems to be the only one we can outwardly see from the list. Wouldn't it be great if we could see all sins??

Like, if someone was lusting, their hair turned blue? Or if they were envying, their face turned green? That would be so cool. Then the smokers and fatties wouldn't feel so "obvious" you know?

Homestar Runner · Senior Member

I've classified sin. Not only that, I've occasionally assigned degrees and priorities. Many years ago, I once got up on a righteous soap box and shouted something along these lines:
I want you to denounce sexual molestation and incest. I want you to do it loudly. I want you to accept the fact that sexual sin ranks up there with shedding innocent blood according to our religion. I want you to believe and act like it is a bigger thing than skipping school. It is more important than smoking pot, or hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Unfortunately, the parents in question never did any of this. Dood is now serving five to life, because victim #3's mom didn't feel like sweeping it under the rug and protecting the little boy from the consequences of his actions.

In another example, Mrs. HSR once classified sins, when she gave acceptance and support to a mom who was giving her 16 yr old boy cigarettes. You see, the 16 yr old boy was in the process of turning his life around, and was trying to wean himself off of some powerful street drugs. A doctor had advised them to move from the vicelike addiction of whatever it was, to a lesser addiction of cigarettes, and then off of cigarettes.

HSR

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

How do you communicate the gravity of sin, HSR?

Quite honestly things I did in my youth held no significance to me, until many decades later, in which I could see the harm they did, and the problems they caused in my own character, and how they led to other problems... it was only then that I really began to hate my sins.

How do you make someone hate their sins, especially when we live in a society that embraces most of them or sees them as of little consequence or only damaging the self--but not others?

--Ray

Homestar Runner · Senior Member

rayb wrote:
How do you communicate the gravity of sin, HSR?

That sounds like a question for an expert should answer, or someone with a calling that gives them access to extra inspiration, I have neither of these going for me. But maybe I have two cents to cast in.

I'm big on letting consequences do the communicating. When there are grave sins out there, I'm big on showing my kids what other people's consequences are, when they're off committing these sins. My 6 yr old started picking up on this a year or two ago. We talk about smoking and drinking. We watch hi-speed chases on TV and talk about how the guy could really hurt someone, and it's a good thing the police are throwing him over the hood and cuffing him. We do a lot of "what would you think if you were that guy" type stuff. I've taken them through casinos, and showed them the rows of people playing the slots. They do not look like happy people.

My wife and I communicated the gravity of the sin of sexual abuse to the parents of the offender, by altering the relationship such that we could protect our children from the ongoing nonsense. That involved moving to another state, camping somewhere else at the next get-together, letting them know they wouldn't be staying at our house any more, and telling them to take a hike when they paid us a surprise visit and showed up on our doorstep.

Unfortunately, regardless of how much they hated the sin of incest, they hated admitting problems and looking bad to neighbors even worse. So we were written off as mentally unbalanced boat rockers with forgiveness issues, and their poor picked on baby ended up molesting a niece across a year or more. Apparently, some of the molestations occured in the living room, with other people present.

Hindsight tells us we should have made a big huge stink about what we knew - sent out flyers, hired a skywriter, taken a full-page ad out in the DesNews. But at the time, we just had a bunch of guesses about how dangerous the kid may or may not be, and all sorts of commandments on forgiveness.

HSR

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Yeah. Forgiveness really sticks in the craw of our personal agendae to enforce the demands of Justice. :P

--Ray

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Btw, are there other sins that rank up there with the ones you find personally beyond the threshold of tolerance, for which we should socially shun folks?

We know that God cannot tolerate the least bit of sin...

What about sins like apostasy? Or Teenage pregnancies? If we shun the people involved, will that help us to communicate the gravity of the sin? Or will that just make us Pharisees? Oh yeah, and How do you shun yourself?

--Ray

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

I believe you can shun the sin without shunning the person. The youth that we love and that have come into our home to hang out and sometimes to live for a while over the years, know what the rules are... If they break rules, there are consequences... they are spelled out before hand. Then we follow through... Sometimes it nearly breaks your heart to mete out those consequences. Some of these children have chosen paths that we did not agree with, or see as happy paths... but our love did not change, we have done all that WE could to keep the lines of communication open.

I do not feel comfortable about sharing specifics, so I will just say that for me parenting has given me much move love for my Heavenly Father and the Savior.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

So how do you get past the... "If you really loved your children, you would change the rules for them..." or find some way to help them out of the hole they dig for themselves... Even heavenly father provided a Christ for us to get out of our pit...

--Ray

PS. My parents used to tell me all the time that they loved me as they were spanking me. I never believed them.

-- Edited by rayb at 17:22, 2007-08-14

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

We don't have to... Christ already did that... Don't try to circumvent the process that is already in place for all of God's children.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Since I am not a spanker... I can't really give any insights into that kind of "love"... but I know that I was showing love for one of our adopteds when I turned him in for drinking and driving. He showed up at our house drunk and we tried to take away his keys and take him somewhere else to sober up... He left in his car, so I called the police and gave them the plate #. He was picked up less than 5 miles away... Passed out over the steering wheel. I would have felt so bad if he had hurt someone after leaving our home. After I called the police I PRAYED and cried out in love and anquish... He could have killed himself or worse other innocents... I begged for the Lord's intervention...

After being arrested he spent some time in jail because it was a 3rd offense... and to this day he has not forgiven me... But we love him... he is one of "our boys"... He has made some very bad choices that the Savior can help him rectify, but only if he choses to... It is not within my power to do help him beyond being supportive... And I certainly couldn't help him by trying to bail him out of his own jams...

Loving hurts sometimes... yep... that is a truth... but it is ALSO the greatest high in the world... At least it is in my world.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I think I see my problem now... (and I know this is a "duh" moment for most of you) I'm trying to be loveable, and love at the same time. It appears there are times when, as the adult, you have to do what you think is right regardless of how it makes you look to that person. We try so hard to be loveable so that our children will listen to us. SO that they'll take us seriously. If they like us, they'll want to be like us, right? Maybe we shouldn't try so hard for our children to like us?

I dunno. That still sounds wrong to me... It all seems so trite when compared with the tough and heartbreaking realities of life, choices and consequences...

--Ray

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

I know everyone says this all the time, and it's a total no-brainer. But Christ is our example of perfect love. Was he tolerant of everything and everyone? Was he "loveable" to the point of sugar-coating the hard truth or outright lying? Was he ever in someone's face, so to speak? I think there's lots of good examples in the scriptures if we really want to define what Christ-like love actually looks like.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Is it wrong to want our children to like us?

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

No, but there's a point we might have to get to (not when they're 5 yrs old for crying outloud, but later, as adults) where we, as Lehi, give them a "final speech" of sorts and let them be. Maybe wanting to be liked is sort of a personal problem.

Dyany · Senior Member

I have to say, there are lots of people who 'hate' (or don't believe in, whichever you want) God because they don't like the lessons He puts them (or others) through for their own good. But He doesn't let up or save them from the consequences simply because He loves them, He allows just the right amount of suffering because He loves them. IF (and only if) we GIVE our sins to Christ can he really take them from us.