I was curious if anyone had insight on criminal convictions and excommunication.
My wife has an uncle that was convicted of child molestation, specifically his step-granddaughter. He did not do it. His public defender was completely worthless and screwed up and did not even try, without detailed explanations it is true and has been given grounds for a new trial. We know the girl lied, she was 11-13 at the time of the alleged incident. The girl's mother hates her step-father before this happened and the girl and her family are totally screwed up. Every one knows that the charge is a fabrication by the granddaughter.
Long story short, he did not do it, and was falsely convicted. He can have a new trial, but needs a private attorney now and simply cannot afford it, it would cost into the 10s of thousands for this, or more. So, the only options being offered are to not fight and get a lesser sentence, get out in four years instead of 14, and still have to register as a sex offender, or stay in for 14 years and still register. A new trial with competent counsel is cost prohibitive.
He had a temple recommend, was endowed, sealed. I am assuming once it is all settled that if he takes the lesser sentence just to get out earlier since he cannot afford a new trial, that he will be excommunicated. This would a double shot of injustice. Maybe he would just have to let the Lord sort it out in the end and accept the criminal ramifications and the spiritual ones till the Lord comes.
Any thoughts?
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
I'd keep trying to find an attourney that I could afford and would do everything possible to pay for it.
As a side note. We live in an area where there are several prisons, so many prisons that the stake actually has a branch just for the prisons. Most of the prisoners have not be excommunicated but many folks want the process to happen so they can start their repentance process. Depending on where he lives it may not happen anyway. I do know of one brother who went to prison that was not disfellowshipped or excommunicated. Word was that even though he was convicted he was able to convince the church disciplinary counsel the decision was wrong somehow. So that is also a possibbility. He probably should discuss with his bishop. If it's as messed up a case as they say maybe pleading to the 4 years won't result in loss of membership. Good luck.
the good news is that his Bishop will have the Spirit to speak the truth. In fact, the Bishop may even know a good lawyer as well as people to help pay for the labor.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
Valhalla, here's a wild thought: if your wife's uncle absolutely cannot find a way to get a lawyer, maybe he could represent himself? I know that typically representing yourself is a stupid idea. In this case I guess he would receive the 14 year sentence instead of the 4 year sentence if he lost. But if there's a chance that he could win his own freedom, maybe it's worth it. I don't know anything about him, so maybe his character makes this a bad choice (if he's not logical but more emotional, it's best that he doesn't represent himself). But if he's a logical, intelligent sort of person, you could teach him how to use a legal library and he could make an effort at defending himself. There are even some books out there on how to defend yourself that you could give him. Again, he'd need to have the right personality. And again, he'd have to have good evidence on his side. But maybe it would work.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
I am trying to give them some options. I am actually an attorney myself and did criminal law, unfortunately, I am not a place or position to help other than to give suggestions, trying to do so.
It astounds me to what lengths some kidswill go through to hurt someone. Friends of my sister in law, the step daughter of the father accused him. He did not do it and got out from under it, the girl was lying, but it cost him well over $10k, all the money they had been saving for a down payment on a house.
-- Edited by Valhalla at 15:12, 2007-08-02
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
I was curious if anyone had insight on criminal convictions and excommunication.
I think a disciplinary council is pretty much mandatory when someone is convicted of a serious crime.
All evidence is gathered. People with something substantive to say get their chance. The uncle won't be able to be there, but he'll get the ability to send letters. In the DC's I've been involved in, the first top priority is to gain a clear and accurate understanding of all the facts.
When the crime is abuse, the part of the general handbook talking about church discipline, specifically mentions three things that need to be on the minds of the people at the church court. (Not sure if this is the order of priority) 1. Protecting the victim(s) or future potential victims / acting in their best interests 2. Helping the convicted move through the repentence process and apply the atonement 3. Protecting the good name of the church
So, even if he didn't do it, #3 might have an impact to some extent. I wouldn't expect to see him ever made cubmaster or bishop. Consider the stink the evil mom could make, should she ever discover the uncle is off working with the youth.
Another thing to consider - Screwed up daughters in screwed up families get molested too. Smart people target such people, because they're easier to get to, and less likely to be believed should they talk. Child sexual molesters look like good guys. Many of them are the most friendly, approachable, great with kids, trustworthy people you'll ever run into. Unless you were there, and have firsthand specific detailed knowledge that the daughter is lying or the defender was incompetent, I'd hesitate to place any stock in what "every one knows".
I'm now in my pediatrics rotation. In addition to the immediate sickness of the child brought to the emergency room we are supposed to be on the lookout for abuse, physical and sexual. There are big warning signs that jump out if you know what to look for.
If he is falsely convicted, then he is in good company, Joseph Smith and Joseph of Egypt and Paul and Christ were falsely convicted, imprisoned, and killed. Joseph of Egypt is the one that jumps to the front of my mind if what you say is true.
Are repentant child molesters even allowed in heaven?
I can think of nothing more damaging than to be accused of such a thing in our current society. We kill our unborn children. We are all victims of some form of abuse. We carry around our baggage and feature it as major parts of our personalities and character. We don't ever let it go. Every television show is about the deceitful lust labled with the lie of "True Love" and "Dreams come true". We teach our children that there is nothing more important than to have sex and lots of it, and if you don't have it, you're broken. We destroy the innocence of youth with our music and visions. We glory in "young love" and worship at the idolatrous altar of the impossibly beautiful images.
So to even suspect a soul of such a thing is tantamount to blasphemy.
Whether intentional or not, the world is a big confused jumbled mass of hysteria and hypocrisy when it comes to this sort of thing. I hope all parties are able to find Christ after they are dragged out into the streets of public opinion.
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
There's nothing more tragic and devastating than to be accused of abuse when one is innocent other than the abuse itself and its victim. I've known lot's of people who have had that happen to them and I have known people who have had children who were abused or were abused themselves. Satan has his grasp in so many different ways, which is why we all must be striving to live the way the Lord wants us to at all times. All I can say to people in these situations is the one thing you can always count on that will always be constant is the love of our Father in Heaven, which is why it is so important to never lose one's faith. That is what Satan wants us to do. He wants us think that all is lost or what's the point, or that Heavenly Father has forsaken us. Cat and I have had our share of trials over the years, but it has been during the worst times that I take time to remember the Lord is still there. He has not left us alone, because if it not weren't for Him things could be worse. It's astounding how many evil people there are in the world, but the righteous will prevail, and we must all be among the righteous. It's also easy to forget the Lord when all is going well. How often do we thank the Lord for our blessings during the bad AND the good? I know this sounds kind of preachy and it isn't meant to be. And, it isn't always comforting when you are in the middle of those horrible moments either, and it doesn't help a whole lot if your immediate needs are not for words of comfort, but these thoughts should always be in the back of one's mind. If I am preaching to anyone it would be to myself more than anyone. But, these are words to live by. Otherwise, what's to stop any of us from going down that slippery slope?
