Medved (in his book Right Turns) shares a ghost story somewhat like that about the night he snuck into Gettysburgh as a youth and slept there on the battlefield at night, and how they saw soldiers marching up and down the hills at night... only to find out there was no reenactments or soldiers there that night.I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar souls tied to that place.

--Ray

-- Edited by rayb at 14:23, 2007-07-17

The soldiers could be what some ghost hunters refer to as a residual haunting. There is some debate over weather it is an entity at all. A residual haunting is much like a tape player replaying something from the past. There may not be any real ghost there but you can see something from the past. This type of haunting is the most commonly reported. Often a residual haunting is identifieble because what is observed is dressed in period clothing and seems to carry on oblivious to current surroundings or people. Sometimes a residual entity will be observed going through a wall or walking on its knees only to find out after further research that there used to be a door where the entity was observed or that the original floor was actually lower. There are several different theories as to why this phenomena happens. One is that areas with significant incidences of these type hauntings tend to have quartz deposits in the area. Quartz crystals have been used to recieve radio signals and in time pieces. The theory goes that the quartz can actually act as a crude reciever and storage device for a past image and that under the right conditions can actually play the image for our viewing. Another theory is that in some places emotions such as anger, suffering, sadness, etc actually leaves an impression on the place and traps a sort of paranormal energy that allows us to see and in some cases hear these images from the past. Often places such as old hospitals or battle grounds are associated with this sort of thing. Places where brutal murders have happened can also be associated with this theory. There are other theories that suggest that the residual haunting is the actual spirit or entity trapped into doing the same things over and over again. This entity while real may not be aware that it is stuck or of the changes in the surroundings. I've often thought that a spirit in spirit prison could be stuck like this but can't imagine that the temple work has not been done on most civil war casualties to explain the many similar sightings at Gettysburg.

We move from a residual haunting to an actual haunting. This is an actual presence or entity actually doing something. Sometimes this is manifest in an actual sighting of an entity. Sometimes a phenomena known as "shadow people" is observed. Sometimes only sounds, mists, or feelings happen. EVPs or electronic voice phenomena are sometimes manifested with this sort of haunting. Many times this sort of haunting is associated with the trauma or events such as battles where suffering, great sorrow, or death is involved similar to the residual haunting. Sometimes not. Sometimes these hauntings become apparent when new construction or remodeling happens on an older house. It is believed that the spiritual entity becomes confused or upset at the changes and tries to communicate. Why are these entitites here. The non LDS paranormal world has many theories but they usually involve a spirit being unwilling or unable to pass back to the spirit world either through choice or being lost. There is also the idea that an entity may be trapped or imprissoned in a particular place which has connotations of a spirit prison type situation.

The third type haunting is generally what is referred to as a demonic or molevolent pressence. There is no doubt as to what we have in this case. I also classify polterguists as demonic because the little jokes are meant to frighten or scare people which I think is evil. Other paranormalists would not classify them as demonic.

How do we explain that happened at the site of the Mountain Meadow Massacre? I don't know. Was it an entity of some sort? Was it melevolant? It's hard to tell from the description of what happened. Maybe it was a spirit who was having a hard time with a lost loved one over the event and needed some closure. Perhaps the apology was what it needed to let go and it was allowed to return to get that. It may seem like a cooky theory but I'm forever the optimist and think that the Savior will give us whatever opportunities we need in this life or the next to enable us to progress. Of course this is all speculation. We have been given scriptural tools such as handshakes to determine the nature of spirtual messengers but it is hard to use those if there is no message.

Another type of phenomena isn't really a haunting at all. Sometimes certain individuals, generally females, have things happen around them such as things moving that appear to be hauntings but may actually be some sort of energy associated with the mind that we don't understand. These false "hauntings" seem to follow the person. They can't move away from the problem. This phenomena has been most associated with teen and preteen girls and seems to go away as they grow older. One theory is that it is some sort of psychic energy that they are unaware of but as their bodies change it goes away.

I know some folks don't believe in this stuff at all or believe that all sightings must be evil. Some folks just think that nutcases make this stuff up. It take a middle of the road approach. Sure there are cooks out there who make this stuff up but enough people of crediblity have described seeing this sort of thing to make me believe it is certainly possible. My wife and I have personally experienced things that we can't explain so I like to keep an open mind. In reality we know so little about how things work in the universe and the functions of the afterlife, freeagency, the spirit world, etc. There is a science behind it but our understanding is so little. Our Heavenly Father can see the past, present, and future, anytime he wants using Science that he understands. I hate to discount something out of hand just because I don't understand it. People who have near death experiences report back sometimes incredible things. We read in the scriptures that the brother of Jared could not be held back from seeing the hand of the Lord through the veil. Maybe we have some control over these things and don't even know it.

Sorry I didn't mean to freak you out. I just wish I understood the science behind some of the unexplained.

The "science" is one thing and is interesting, but I honestly ask the question based on the litmus test Moroni puts forth in Moroni 7:12-19.

So, do the manifestations tend to lead one to believe in Christ or to sow seeds of doubt or something else...

Coco's experience is definitely an "idonknow" as far as that litmus test goes, IMHO.  Maybe it would be a faith promoting experience for those two... maybe it would be more to unnerve them...

If those who followed Lucifer can mimic something they witnessed and either scare the bejeebies out of someone or make them think they are seeing some sort of spiritual remnant from the past, is that going to lend to increasing true faith in correct nature of Christ and the plan of salvation?  Probably not, particularly if they don't have a good understanding of the true gospel to begin with.  That is just my opinion though...

Homestar Runner wrote:

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I try to never let my healthy skepticism interfere with my enjoyment of a good ghost story.

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I have dreams all the time when I wake up and there're people hovering over my bed... it used to freak me out bigtime... Now it just annoys me. Mostly I try to talk with them, the last one was an old woman who could only mouth words, but couldn't make a sound.

I think it's mostly because I don't sleep well, and have sleep apnea.
 
--Ray

She never sees anything I do. And I call out to them often quite loudly... I have to wonder if it freaks her out... or if she just sleeps through it. I don't have any idea who they are. I saw shadow people after watching the movie "life is beautiful" for example (which is about the holocaust). I think they wore robes, though some seem ragged, and they're seldom clear, they fade about the time I realize I'm awake, though I never focus on clothes... not even in real life, and wouldn't be able to tell you what my wife or my children are wearing today... unless of course they were naked... I'd notice that...

Like I say, it could be a physiological thing too... cuz I have apneas and my oxygen level gets low which could be causing me brain damage. :) (woot!)

--Ray

Well, low oxygen levels or not... this is fascinating. What do you yell to them? "Hey, dead lady! Get back here!" I don't focus on clothes much either - I had to keep a list in high school so I wouldn't wear the same stuff all the time...

Anyway- just wondering if there was a clue as to who they were from the clothes they were wearing... Interesting...

Do they make eye contact with you?

How old is your house?

Did the lady have a specific emotion on her face?

How old did she look?

Was she floating, like horizontally or more like just standing?


I swear, I could hardly convince myself to go get a drink of apple juice in the middle of the night last night cuz I was remembering ray's dead people. Kept looking around.... it was pathetic! (See how brave I can talk when it's light outside? ) I started back to the bedroom and had to control myself so I wouldn't go into a sprint... dork.

I dreamt I was dreaming I was watching ray talk with his ghosts last night...

I watched the Ghost Hunters last night. Most of those type shows I don't like but this one is pretty good. They try and debunk everything before they say something is haunted and even then will often just say they can't explain it. It's the only one where the people seem more skeptical than even me. Last night they investigated a house here in California that was built near the site of the original Manson family murders. The guy had asked them to come in because he was seeing and hearing things and wanted some proof that he wasn't crazy. They caught some EVPs (Electronic Voice Phenomena) that was pretty spooky. They also did an investigation at the Jim Hensen studios. Most of the ghost hunting type shows are stupid and/or fake but these guys seem legitimate. They get access to some really interesting places. They've gotten on aircraft carriers, battleships, city halls, lighthouses, a national guard armory, etc. going through the front door and dealing with the government folks and business owners. Most of the time they are able to debunk the haunting or evidence.

One time the Coast Guard took them out to this old lighthouse that is perched on a rock out in the middle of the ocean which was pretty cool. Some of the stuff they capture on video and audio is pretty intersting. Personally, I think it is a bad idea to go looking for this sort of thing. You might find something you don't want to find. Obviously in the case of evil spirits they really have no idea or understanding of what they are dealing with. On a couple of occassions something bad has happened to these guys. One time a camera man was actually attacked or struck. You could see it on tape. His camera equipment actually lifted up and struck him. They tried every which way to debunk it. This particular episode happened at the national guard armory and the soldiers from the guard when shown the evidence were just as amazed. The guys that do this are called The New England Paranormal Society.

Personally, I mainly enjoy reading about ghosts. There is a guy that wrote a series of books on Ghosts in Monterey, CA. His books tell a lot of the lesser known history of the area which I"ve spent some time in over the years. From a historical standpoint the most interesting things to me are the residual hauntings where an image or person from the past is seen. Monterey was the first capital of California and was a major city under the Spanish so there are many reports of residual type hauntings in the city and outlying areas. Of course there are also reports of sea monsters in the ocean too so you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

Cocobeem wrote:

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Hmm... a good ghost story is hard to beat. Maybe a good hidden treasure story could come close...

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Those are great too.  The same guy that writes books on Monterey's Ghosts also has books on shipwrecks and others on hidden treasure.  Some of it has been found over the years which just gets people even more excited.  I've never looked for any myself but enjoy the stories of old banditos, pirates, and hidden treasure.