Against the greater light

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Against the greater light

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

You're already there, Roper. You have more light. It's all about whether you can receive a fullness of light. I've been thinking about a blessing my dad gave me a while back. At first I was bothered by it, cuz in it, he said I needed to start to take more of an active leader role. I have never had a desire to lead anything other than my own life, and so I found the advice to be discouraging. I knew that the Lord expected more of me. As I struggle to take on more responsibility--and the right kinds of responsibility, I am learning things that I would never have known being complacent.

When we don't move forward, well... I am reminded of the Lord's words to in Revelation about his apostate followers...

Revelation Chapter 3

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Quite honestly, I don't take anything for granted in terms of my own salvation, or my own capabilities. I suppose that makes me a bit unstable or unsure, and I try to trust in the Lord, but I fear becoming complacent in Him. I know that I, of myself, have many weaknesses. If I become too accepting of them, well... how will I progress?

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

I see where you're coming from, Roper. That'd be a lot of responsibility to handle, and if you mess up, that makes it a big deal. But remember the parable of the talents. The one servant hid his, because he was afraid of what would happen if he used it badly. He got punished for not trying. So, Roper, if the Lord thinks that you're Bishop material, then you could potentially be doing something very bad for your salvation if you ask him never to make you a bishop. Am I making sense? You can't get out of the possibility of messing up badly by not trying, because that is messing up badly in its own way.
I'm constantly trying to not mess up badly in raising my kids, but I know that the Lord wanted me to try.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Stupid parable of the talents...

btw, we need a :murmer: emoticon--one that looks like a little Laman or Lemuel face.

Homestar Runner · Senior Member

Words of wisdom from my wife, who I sometimes think walks with one foot in pessimism and the other in prophecy:

"If you expect man to act like anything other than man, you will be dissapointed every time."

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

Personally, I see the greater light having nothing whatsoever to do with callings. The lowly hometeacher (see:Hugh Nibley) may have as much or more light than some Apostles.

I also think there is a great deal of living a double life going on that we are not privy to. One does not suddenly, overnight, commit a heinous sin that warrants the greatest punishment on earth that the Church can impose. The thoughts, the acts that led up to it are simply unseen by the masses. Perhaps he was, like my ex, just a little more clever than most.

But yes, the apparent simultaneous sinning and exercising priesthood power seems to be confusing... My ex gave someone a blessing during his "bad time" in which he revealed what was known to no one but the recipient... I don't quite know what to make of that...

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Do people "live a double-life" if they have tendencies that would drive them away from God and their covenants, or only if they act on them? And what is better that they fess up to those tendencies and get out of their covenants, or try to work through them--occasionally failing and relying upon the mercy of the Lord and others?

--Ray

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Hey Mahonri, what are venal sins? I googled it and found a bunch of entires related to the way Catholicism categorizes sins, and the distinction was drawn between mortal and venal sins (much like felonies and misdemeanors.)

Why would someone be excommunicated for misdemeanor-type sins?

arbilad · Head Chef

I went to dictionary.com and it basically said that to be venal means to sell your influence or to use your influence to take bribes. I'm not sure how that would relate to bishops.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Hubby says he thinks Mahonri could possibly mean fraud, or embezzlement. According to him, venal sins are more serious because of the issues of trust that are violated... if you think about it the violation of trust in other sins that are very seriously condemned is also present... for instance breaking vows fidelity in marriage, or a trusted person who molests a child... etc.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Hmmm... me wonders if the bishop that ex-ed my great-grandfather over a dispute about water rights should actually have been the one that was ex-ed instead... and for venal sins... As I understood it, my g-grandfather or an associate wouldn't relinquish his water rights (Idaho, so a spring / etc. was not considered public property like in Utah) and the bishop and his side prevailed and ended up ex-ing those that opposed them.

A bishop in a ward I served in on my mission got excommunicated several months after I left the ward. Reason, apostacy. He had taken a trip all the way from Germany to some place in Idaho and hooked up with one of those wacko groups. At the same time, the WML and some other MP leader in the ward were excommunicated for generally the same reason. It was rough on the ward, as they didn't have a lot of active MP to begin with. But, it came as no surprise as a naive 19-20 year old missionary, considering how there would be yelling matches in priesthood meeting and the WML's goal in life seemed to be finding "lost" books of scripture and promoting what the writings stated as true scripture...

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Sad stories... :(

It is interesting how in some Stakes it seems almost "easy" to be ex'd and in others you can do all these things and escape the axe. I realize that a part of it has to do with the victims and the repentant nature of the perpetrator, but it still appears that man's exercising of God's rules is very inconsistent and unequal.

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

Anyway, another year and it will be someone else's turn.
And then on to the fourth quorum of the seventy! biggrin

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Roper's story of the Bishops being excommunicated is sad but not all that uncommon. My wife's Bishop when she was growing up got exd' for an extramarital affair. He repented and returned. A guy I used to work with had a Bishop exd' because he came out of the closet and became an apostate. So these things do happen. Bishops are men like anyone else and they can fall just like anyone else. Some people get really concerned as if it is some sort of sign that the gospel can't be true or that the Lord must have chosen the wrong man to be Bishop because he fell. That isn't the case. Just look at how many major general authorities have fallen, especially in the church's early days. It is sad though for the members because Bishops enjoy a level of trust and love from ward members not experienced in any other ward calling.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

It's tough to be the embodiment of Christ when you feel like the embodiment of Satan.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

It's tough to be the embodiment of anything if someone is gnawing on yer arm to stay alive...

My bad... cross-threading again...