Polish Children's Rights Watchdog vs. The Teletubbies

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Polish Children's Rights Watchdog vs. The Teletubbies

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Where's Jerry Fallwell when you need him? Didn't he warn us about Stinky Blinky years ago?

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Cat Herder wrote:
Dang, if Tinky Winky is a fag...

Choose a better word, please. The term is offensive to more than just homosexual people.

Fregramis · Senior Member

Cat Herder wrote:

How many years does it take for the Polish far right to catch up to Jerry Falwell's allegations?

Just allegations? You may need to read what Ann Coulter pointed out in her column earlier this month after Falwell's death:

"Beginning in early 1998, the news was bristling with stories about a children's cartoon PBS was importing from Britain that featured a gay cartoon character, Tinky Winky, the purple Teletubbie with a male voice and a red handbag.

People magazine gleefully reported that Teletubbies was "aimed at Telebabies as young as 1 year. But teenage club kids love the products' kitsch value, and gay men have made the purse-toting Tinky Winky a camp icon."

In the Nexis archives for 1998 alone, there are dozens and dozens of mentions of Tinky Winky being gay in periodicals such as Newsweek, The Toronto Star, The Washington Post (twice!), The New York Times and Time magazine (also twice).

In its Jan. 8, 1999, issue, USA Today accused The Washington Post of "outing" Tinky Winky, with a "recent Washington Post In/Out list putting T.W. opposite Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche, essentially 'outing' the kids' show character."

Michael Musto of The Village Voice boasted that Tinky Winky was "out and proud," noting that it was "a great message to kids not only that it's OK to be gay, but the importance of being well accessorized."

All this appeared before Falwell made his first mention of Tinky Winky.

After one year of the mainstream media laughing at having put one over on stupid bourgeois Americans by promoting a gay cartoon character in a TV show for children, when Falwell criticized the cartoon in February 1999, that same mainstream media howled with derision that Falwell thought a cartoon character could be gay. "

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Okay, that was the liberal voice in media that either made or helped push the original allegations and associations. I don't think the show's producers ever did, in fact they probably denied it then as they are now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletubbies

Falwell (and apparently now the Polish group) made the mistake of attacking the show instead of those that were perverting something that was innocent and innocuous. I mean think about it, if the claimed association really had creedence, then why aren't the advocates of "free love" claiming that the show promotes that as well... hey, those teletubbies are always hugging each other ya know...

roper, sorry if use of the word was found offensive. It was selected specifically for the shock value. Implying that a show geared to pre-schoolers promotes homosexuality or other perversion simply because a child character plays with a certain type of toy or puts on a dance tutu is as equally offensive and just plain absurd.

arbilad · Head Chef

Cat, I really wish that you'd refrain from calling things absurd. Some credible evidence has been presented to you. You can choose to refute it, but by calling it "absurd" you are resorting to emotional, rather than rational arguments.
BTW, please provide a quote where the producers of the show say that the character is not gay. It would be especially valuable if the quote was from that time period. The article you linked to only has a quote from the company that licenses the character, not the company that produces the show.
One thing could be coincidence. If it was just the "magic bag", that would be one thing. Did you ever take statistics? The larger the number of coincidences, the less likelihood that they are actually coincidences. Let's say, for instance, that it is 95% likely that absolutely no homosexual overtones were implied by giving the character a handbag. Then add in the coincidence that the character is purple, which also happens to be the gay pride color (and let's assign that a 95% probability of being coincidence). You now only have a 90% probability that both are coincidences. Add in the coincidence that the triangle is another gay pride symbol, and assume a 95% probability of that being coincidence. You are down to an 86% probability of all three being coincidences. We are now at a 14% probability that they are not coincidences. Hardly conclusive, but well out of the range of the absurd.
Now add in the absence of a public denial of the gay activists claims that Tinky Winky is gay (at least, before Falwell said it). That is a huge thing. Remember, this was 10 years ago, when it was still Ok to be anti-homosexual. So let's assign that a 50% probability of being coincidence. We are now only at 43% probability that all four facts are mere coincidences, making it more likely that it is not a coincidence. And I assigned each thing a much, much higher probability of being coincidence than I think is actually the case.
So it is not absurd, and is in fact more likely than it is not.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

absurd
adjective 1. utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.

From www.ragdoll.co.uk, the production company that developed the idea and that produces the show (also posted at pbskids.com):

Why does Tinky Winky carry a handbag?
Each Teletubby has a favourite thing, a "universal" toy that reflects an aspect of children's learning through playful exploration. Tinky Winky's bag allows play with volume. Dipsy's hat is for role-playing. Laa-Laa's ball reflects young children's fascination with spheres and Po's scooter explores travle and direction.

Tinky Winky is purple and has a triangle aerial on his head. He's not just the biggest Teletubby, but also very gentle. His favourite thing is his red bag. Tinky Winky loves walking, marching, dancing and falling over. He has a special song which he loves to sing to himself, "Pinkle winkle, Tinky Winky, pinkle winkle, Tinky Winky." Tinky Winky loves big hugs.
So, based on your logical reasoning using arbitrarily assigned statistics, then any object or design or icon that includes a triangle or incorporates purple must have some direct correlation to homosexuality. And if a male child picks up a purse and plays with it, he most likely has something deviant about him going on. Please...

Of course my refutation is emotional. The claims by those who started and perpetrated the myth and fallacy was all emotional. What "facts" did they use to support their claim? Think about it, if you didn't want to give any creedance or air time to false allegations about something you had created as a developmental tool for toddlers, would you give the allegation aire time just to add to the "controversy".

I have to assume most parents have sufficient wisdom to see the show for what it is. Of course, some parents choose to show their kids Veggie Tales or Baby Einstein or Living Scriptures or Dora The Explorer or (fill in blank for child's show / video series), so I guess you never know...

Anyway, just lock this thread if it is gonna turn into a spark for people taking offense or starting a debate...

I started the thread as a rolleyes

sarcastic comment...

ETA... oh, just to show the level of absurdity the claimed association is, here is another... Tinky Winky sings "Pinkle winkle". Well, in German, pinkle means to, ahem, relieve one's bladder (could have used other words, but the idea is conveyed)... so, obviously since he is singing "pinkle", he must be thinking about relieving himself. Hence, he is an advocate for a certain method of potty training... rolleyes

-- Edited by Cat Herder at 10:30, 2007-05-30

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I agree with roper, let's try to refrain from using terms like <word edited by PollyAnna>. Okay? As galling as Same-sex attraction is, I don't think it is becoming of saints to employ crassness in regards to the moral weaknesses of another.

That said, I think that it's sad that homosexuals see a need to promote their lifestyles and see their gayness in common objects. Spongebob, for example, has been considered a gay icon by many. This always annoys me, because just because a lot of gay people like the character must not mean he has a hidden agenda... and i think we give the gay-lobby more power than they really have when we attribute them the ability to corrupt others with their ways...

--Ray

-- Edited by PollyAnna at 17:42, 2007-06-01

arbilad · Head Chef

Cat, I am in shock. You completely ignored my point. Those making the assertion that he was homosexual used facts in their arguments. As I stated, individually they could be coincidence. But so many coincidences together is unlikely. You assign statements to me that I did not make. I did not say that any child picking up a purse is homosexual. But when there are several factors together, not just one, that is indicative of something.
Please stop using derision as a discussion tool.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

A Red handbag does not a gay man make.

arbilad · Head Chef

absurd
adjective 1. utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.

Since the arguments use facts, and follow a logical method, they cannot be contrary to all reason. I think you helped disprove your own assertion.
Especially given other actions of the gay lobby in targeting children (books, in class presentations, etc.) it is not illogical, it is not utterly or obviously senseless, and it is not contrary to all reason.
Homosexuals themselves said the character was homosexual. There are too many indicators for it to be merely coincidence.

arbilad · Head Chef

rayb wrote:

A Red handbag does not a gay man make.

True. But there are other indicators. But I've said my piece, so I won't repeat that same point again.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

But homosexuals make a big stink about the fact that crossdressing is NOT the same thing. The intent may be to blur the lines of gender, but that's not the same thing as gay. Sorry, there's just a huge logical fallacy in the whole scandal.

--Ray

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Polly, you better shut this thread down... here we go again... Incredible...

Oh, and I'll edit out the three letter word I used, since it appears to be offensive to multiple folks, but you had best edit it out where it was quoted.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

arbilad wrote:
...
Since the arguments use facts, and follow a logical method, they cannot be contrary to all reason. I think you helped disprove your own assertion.
...
Homosexuals themselves said the character was homosexual.
...

Use of a logical method does not necessarily mean the outcome is logical. The key word in the definition I provided is OR. I interpret an OR to mean the definition is true if any of conditions is true, not all. AND would imply all conditions must be true in order for the definition to be true. Isn't that a basic logic pattern for programming?

So, are you saying that homosexuals are the SME's on the matter then?

Anyway, I've spent way too much time on this when the thread was simply meant as a sarcastic rolleyes

.

arbilad · Head Chef

For the benefit of those not up on corporate lingo, the abbreviation SME means "Subject Matter Expert"

Cocobeem · Keeper of the Holy Grail

"Anyway, just lock this thread if it is gonna turn into a spark for people taking offense or starting a debate..."

No, no, no. I think it's possible to discuss things the way arbi is suggesting. I find the term "absurd" not very useful. What's absurd to one is perfectly truthful to another. See example of Noah and the Ark.

Most of my kids have watched Teletubbies at some point. They quickly outgrow it, but during the time they enjoy it, they REALLY enjoy it. Bursting out laughing, utterly mesmerized...

We find that which we seek.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I'll tell you what's really offensive. That Barney the Dinosaur. That purple beast has got to be a flamer and since I live in California and have been to San Frangayo a number of times I must be an expert. All the fruits and nuts come from California!!

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

You laugh, but there was a similar backlash against Barney too...

Fregramis · Senior Member

New Age Demon preaching socialism, wasn't it Ray?

I know a Bishop who didn't let his kids watch "Little Mermaid"; why?

His opinion was that the cartoon showed it was ok to marry outside the "covenant" and everything would turn out ok. You may roll your eyes, but as a parent in a Satan dominated society, you can never be too careful.

As for Tellie tubbies, I thought it taught Orwellian concepts. I never saw such a creepy kids show in my life. Play with your toddlers instead of plopping them in front of the TV, and the issue of watching spooky British children's programming becomes a non issue.

Even in Poland! wink

Fregramis · Senior Member

I might add, the Electric Company rules!!

Afros, psychadelic music and effects, groovy clothes and quirky humor: it doesn't get much better than that.

"HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

arbilad · Head Chef

We just watch discs and tapes. Land Before Time is like crack cocaine for little children. Of course, I don't know how long the series goes. They're probably at Land Before Time 144: Little Foot's Toe Fungus by now.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Actually I don't let one of my daughters watch the Little Mermaid (She's defiant enough), because it teaches a girl that she doesn't have to respect her father's wishes and in the end she gets everything her little heart desires. It's a very dishonest story with no serious consequences with making a deal with the dark-side... cuz everything works out in the end.

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

Ray, read her the Hans Christian Anderson version; it has much more consequences (such as the mermaid ending up as a statue).

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Fregramis wrote:

I might add, the Electric Company rules!!

Afros, psychadelic music and effects, groovy clothes and quirky humor: it doesn't get much better than that.

"HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Not to mention Spider Man was on that show. I loved the Electric Company!!! biggrin

TitusTodd · Senior Member

As for Tellie tubbies, I thought it taught Orwellian concepts. I never saw such a creepy kids show in my life. Play with your toddlers instead of plopping them in front of the TV...

I agree with that and the description of the Tellie tubbies as being creepy. Our house has always been a teletubbies and barney free zone. Oh, and no spongebob, either. Not because we suspect any of the characters are gay but because the shows are just plain dumb.

Actually I don't let one of my daughters watch the Little Mermaid (She's defiant enough), because it teaches a girl that she doesn't have to respect her father's wishes and in the end she gets everything her little heart desires. It's a very dishonest story with no serious consequences with making a deal with the dark-side... cuz everything works out in the end.

She did suffer the consequences of her defiance but her mistakes didn't mean she should suffer the rest of her life. A father gives what he can to give his children joy. Triton gave Ariel first life and then her love after Ariel suffered the penalty for her mistake and then watched her dad take her place.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

But, we can't be reading Hans Christian Anderson because there are rumors his sexual orientation may have been contraversial, so his writings may have hidden meanings...

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Okay, I can agree with the "creepy" factor of Teletubbies... shoot, it is a matter of humor for Mrs. Cat, myself, and the older kids to come up with all kinds of insidious storylines to explain who and what the Teletubbies really are and that their true mission is world domination

, but come on, teaching of Orwellian concepts? Maybe I don't know what Orwellian concepts are, but I don't see a connection between George Orwell's 1984 and Teletubbies... Please elaborate on that...

(p.s. We are also Barney free, mostly because we watched it once many years ago when childthings 1 and 2 were toddlers and found it to be stupid beyond get out and none of the kids have ever even wanted to watch it... but SpongeBob free? Why, dem's fightin' wurdz! Some of our most memorable FHE's have involved an episode of SpongeBob!

)

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

There are some classic Spongebob episodes that no childhood is complete without having watched...

The Sponge Who could Fly for example teaches you that when all you want to do is fly with your jellyfish friends in your inflatable pants, but the town wants you to fly around with those inflatable pants... that in the end the pants will be destroyed by a mob (and farmer jenkins) and that your jellyfish friends will come to save you in the end...

Or what Relief Society has yet existed which could survive not seeing the episode in which SpongeBob plans a party... and plans it too well... and ends up in jail in a bunny suit...

Or what about the classic lesson learned by all when Spongebob tries too hard to get laughs--all because... he ripped his pants?

--Ray

TitusTodd · Senior Member

Shouldn't the level of obsession with SpongeBob be a warning sign? biggrin

My wife is the most militant anti-Teletubbies and anti-Barney. So, I will give her a hard time occasionally by doing the Barney opening song (which she says sounds way too much like Barney) and I used to do the Teletubbies voices.

There really has to be something wrong with teletubbies. Kids get into some kind of trance when it comes on. Either there are subliminal messages or they trying to figure out what-the-heck is going on.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I don't like the teletubbies (as others have stated) mostly cuz I don't think babies need teevee... My wife however likes the power teevee can have on the kids in that it keeps them temporarily from destroying things... This has been a point of contention in our home in general, just how much teevee do any of us need. Honestly, If all my collected movies and teevee were to disappear tomorrow, I would not be upset in the least. Then again, I get inundated with Hollywood drivel in my work... I have the ability to see pretty much anything that's out there ... and it's all pretty much mindless vapid crap in its most harmless state.

We try to collect movies that are less damaging... but sometimes I think the children's imaginations would best be served by a steady supply of books from the library.

On Sunday we let our children watch sunday movies, though. And that helps them calm a bit... They really like "The Testaments" right now... they loved (though I couldn't stand it) the "Book of Mormon" movie too, and "The RM"... and of course Junior's Giants and VeggieTales...

--Ray

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

For the past few years, I've made DVDs of our hime videos and photos. They've become the Sunday movie staple in our house. And for some strange reason, Toddler Roper's favorite cut is the one of our stake roadshows from a few years back where I and the two oldest Roper boys wore kilts and did the "Scottish Spring" bit. There's something a little discomforting about a child wanting to watch his daddy wearing a dress and singing, over and over and over....

Tinky Winky's pretty tame by comparison wink

-- Edited by Roper at 21:49, 2007-05-31

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

You guys still do road shows? We haven't had a road show in our stake in nearly 20 years!!!

TitusTodd · Senior Member

I believe our Stake does them every 3-5 years or so.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Our youth are doing road show this year.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Our Stake hasn't done roadshows for probably 3 years. In the nearly 9 years we've been here, they have done them twice that I can remember. The first one ended up being a few adults and a bunch of the primary kids for our Ward's entry since few if any of the youth wanted to be involved. Yours truely ended up almost stealing the whole show with his brief cameo doing an Elvis impersonation... Let's just say, in the thirty - sixty seconds I was on stage, I had the audience rolling so hard people came up to me afterwards saying they were laughing so hard they just about pee-ed their pants! And though several folks video taped the road show, I never got to see myself!

I guess, roper, that my kids would want to see my performance over and over again too... but, at least I wasn't wearing a skirt...

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

In light of the topic of this thread, a friend of mine at Church was seen with a pink backpack during priesthood meeting... Even though it was not his, what is being in possession of a pink backpack indicative of, that he is in touch with his feminine side or that he may need to go have a talk with the Bishop?

A couple of us gave him a good nature razzing...

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Is he color blind? I tend to stuff the daughters pink stuff in my bulky black man purse that bears the name of THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY when at church. Any bag that has the logo and name for THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY shouldn't bring into question any man's masculinity!