The Light of Christ

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

The Light of Christ

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

rayb wrote:
perhaps this is what is meant by keeping one's first estate? Faith in the Atonement of Christ, perhaps that itself is the LIght of Christ? If we believed that Christ could and would save us, perhaps that's what seperates us from the devils, who chose not to follow the Father's plan...

Was it Talmage that also covered this in "Jesus the Christ"??? I can't remember, but I would agree with this assessment.

There are some good points generally regarding many concepts on faith in the Savior brought up in Stephen Robinson's books on the Atonement... I also read some stuff during one of my Institute classes in college, and after my mission... that gave me a better understanding of this, from some of early church presidents, Heber C. Kimball comes to mind, but I can't be sure and I don't have access to my journals right now, but I will look later... For some reason I have almost always, in my memory been of this general opinion, maybe not quite the way you said it above, but I can't think of a better way to put my thoughts... It's been a long week, that I don't even want to get in to...

My dad was a pretty good "scholar" in his own right, hubby is another very spiritually attuned person who has given me much help in finding answers in my life... Both have really helped me to understand some of the questions I have asked while reading about doctrine as a much younger person, so maybe that is part of my process...???

Anyway, what I meant to say and I got sidetracked... was that I have "read" the Lectures on Faith several times and this is one of the things that I remember too, so I believe the tract is there in the hardcopy as well, and that the audio is just a reading of that.

arbilad · Head Chef

Well, time doesn't concern the Lord much. I don't know how it's possible, for instance, for Jesus to have atoned for my sins even though I wasn't born yet when He made the atonement.
But when you get right down to it, there are certain things that are just beyond our understanding for right now. For instance, we, as humans, are conditioned to see a begin and end to everything. But there was no beginning to existence, nor will there be an end. I can't get my mind around that, but it is inescapable. Even atheists are stuck with the problem that there is no true beginning, a time when before there was nothing, not even the absence of something, and then there was something. They commonly call the beginning of the universe the "big bang". But most scientists don't see that as the beginning anymore. Some say that the material for the big bang came from another dimension that is hyper-dense. Well, ok, where did that come from? That's the thing: no matter what beginning they can think of, there always had to be something before that. So, even though we cannot conceive of there having been no beginning, still, it makes more logical sense than any other explanation.
It's the same sort of thing with the light of Christ. Sure, people born before Christ had it. If they had it because of the atonement, it's only because the price had already been paid, albeit in the future. Heavenly Father knew that it would be paid with a certainty, because He knew Jesus perfectly, and knew that He would do everything asked of Him. So, for Heavenly Father, it was effectively as if it had already happened. After all, when we live with Him, time won't be a constraint anymore. We'll have an unlimited supply of it. And we too will learn to anticipate things with perfection (assuming we reach exaltation, which I expect everyone on this board will

) allowing us to act on future events as if they had already happened.

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

Nicely put Arbi... That is a great analogy.

Okay, here are a couple references from my study journal on this topic... BTW: bold/italic highlighting is my addition to the quotes... I will keep looking for the ones I remembered from your comments Ray, but I am remembering as I read these (and so I wanted to mention) that AGENCY is an essential part of this truth... Agency came to us even before we kept our first estate, so the Light of Christ is more than us keeping our first estate, but we had to have it in order to keep our first estate:

Boyd K Packard, "The Light of Christ," Ensign, Apr 2005, 8-14:
The Light of Christ existed in you before you were born (see D&C 93:23, 29-30), and it will be with you every moment that you live and will not perish when the mortal part of you has turned to dust. It is ever there. Every man, woman, and child of every nation, creed, or color - everyone, no matter where they live or what they believe or what they do - has within them the imperishable Light of Christ. In this respect, all men are created equally. The Light of Christ in everyone is a testimony that God is no respecter of persons (see D&C 1:35). He treats everyone equally in that endowment with the Light of Christ.
Brent Bulloch, "I Have a Question," Ensign, June 1989, 26-28
The terms "Spirit of Christ" and the "Light of Christ" are most often used in the scriptures synonymously. Elder Bruce R. McConkie gave this explanation about what the Light of Christ is: "There is a spiritthe Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Christ, the light of truth, the light of Christthat defies description and is beyond mortal comprehension. It is in us and in all things; it is around us and around all things; it fills the earth and the heavens and the universe. It is everywhere, in all immensity, without exception; it is an indwelling, immanent, ever-present, never-absent spirit. It has neither shape nor form nor personality. It is not an entity nor a person nor a personage. It has no agency, does not act independently, and exists not to act but to be acted upon." 2
The scriptures tell us that the Light of Christ, which "proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space," is "the light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God." 3 It is manifested in the light of the sun, moon, and stars and is the power by which they and the earth were made. It is also the light that quickens our understanding. 4
Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught that the Light of Christ "is the agency of Gods power; it is the means and way whereby 'he comprehendeth all things,' so that 'all things are before him, and all things are round about him.' It is the way whereby 'he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things.' " 5
The Holy Ghost makes use of the Light of Christ to perform his work. "The Spirit of Christ (or Light of Christ) is the agency through which the Holy Ghost operates," Elder McConkie explained. 6 Moroni wrote that all spiritual gifts come through the Spirit of Christ, 7 meaning that when the Holy Ghost works with us, he transmits his gifts by the agency of the light of Christ.
Bro Bulloch uses Bruce R. McConkie's quotes, (he's never been my favorite to quote) but I have read other comments by other apostles and prophets (and have noted them, but I am too tired to keep looking right now...) about this very interesting topic... More later... (I love this kind of gospel discussion!)

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I got the impression that the Light of Christ was the assurance born within us that Christ's atonement saves, even from the premortal realm. Perhaps those who chose to follow Satan never obtained such a light. Perhaps they simply didn't believe Christ could do it.

Wouldn't it be something if that were ALL that it were? If it were seed of faith in Christ's atonement from before the worlds were? Anyhow... it was an interesting realm of speculation, I don't know about some of these other quotes though.

--Ray

PollyAnna · Senior Bucketkeeper

I didn't mean to say that these are the end points of how I think on this subject... I have a distinct impression that there is a lot more than I have even begun to understand about just this one gospel concept... I only meant to say that these are SOME of the things I read, in order to come to the understandings I do have.

I am still looking at my study journals. There are more than a few... and I haven't gotten them all digitized yet... I have pondered your thoughts... and Arbi's... interesting stuff... I find myself somewhat reluctant to share my gut feelings, cause some of what I understand is because of some very personal and sacred experiences.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

Perhaps I could do that in the middle of the night when I can't sleep... digitize my study journals.