Seek not for riches in the form of luxuries of possessions unless you are going to use them to bless the lives of your brothers and sisters...

MrCoco and I were just talking about how little was said concerning money at this last Gen. Conf. I know, there was probably something said, so you don't need to go link me to everything. We were just commenting on how money and infidelity are the two big causes of divorce. I don't think the Church has any better record for divorces than the pop. at large. I know it's hard to calculate temple divorces because many people are divorced who haven't bothered to cancel the temple sealing, so "on paper" they're still temple married. But anyway-- money is a huge problem in the Church and without. I'm not sure quite what to think or how I'd go about changing it. You can preach till you're blue in the face but if people don't want to hear... It's their desires- the things of the world- so, what can you do?

It is a rare thing not to compare oneself to another. It is a basic way that the human brain learns. By comparing differences we learn what is proper and improper--in a way it's how we learn to stop from making mistakes without experimentation.

If you see someone else doing something, you can mimick it...

In the process, we must learn which things are worthy of emulation and which things are not. In the church, we admire a lot of folk, often we interract with an assortment of people from different ages and with different points of view. We share our testimony each week, and strengthen each other with the Spirit through the words we say, the actions we choose, the donations we give, and the love we share.

And as we all strive to understand and learn and be better, it's only natural that our imperfect role-models rub off on us...

Now, if you think it's bad in the church... just imagine a world without any decent rolemodels... A whole means of learning is taken from many people in this world, which breeds contempt, cynicism, mocking, derision, hatred and loathing of one's fellow man...

So I'll stick with the prior and put up with a little Jonesism...

--Ray

I think part of the problem is that some members equate riches with being righteous. Also, I do see a problem with a society as a whole of various denomonations of young people thinking that they need to have what their parents or grandparents worked years to achieve right from the start.

great point, zealia...

to complicate matters, often prosperity is a blessing from God...

--Ray

Something about kicking our own asses to hell...

I was thinking about how basic it is to compare ourselves with another, to emulate each other and how we learn. So often we want to be just like others we see, sure, but then I got to thinking that so often we want to be different from others for all the wrong reasons as well.

This whole life and learning thing... it's pretty natural to make lots of mistakes at it. Basic human tendencies aside, however, I'm grateful to have a conscience to help distinguish whether I am on one extreme or another.

I guess that's an attribute we should seek to develop.

--Ray

Great point, arbi. And that's the whole basis of sins like greed, coveting, envy...isn't it?



Your $250k home is great if you're surrounded by people whose homes are only $150k.
Your $250k home sucks if you're surrounded by people with multi-million dollar homes.


In high school you were pretty dang smart because you were valedictorian, #1.
At the university you realize you really don't know jack squat.

No, that guy was Jack Squat Thrust.

So... seeing that it's counterproductive, which I agree with... how do we counteract this? (To get back to the original question...) Remind ourselves that somehow Person A's life sucks, too? Even though we don't see it?

When I compare myself to others, I get depressed. Sometimes we need to remember that the only way people get good at something is by working hard for it, so instead of trying to become someone else, I've been focused on becoming Myself...and not just myself, but my BEST self. There are some goals that I have been working toward for years that I haven't come close to reaching yet (I'll never be immaculate), but as long as I'm working on them, the stuff that other people have, and the traits and the qualities, don't matter as much any more. I'm kind of glad I don't have all the money I need to live that "fabulous" life, because somehow, making life fabulous by other means works so much better. Does it really get any better than having someone make you grilled cheese and tomato soup for lunch?

Your wife got you a Beemer because some woman said something negative about a Lincoln?? Wow. Guess that'd be easy to manipulate... when you're sick of the BMW, that is. Have her "overhear" how BMW's are yuck and for weenies and Ford trucks are actually the new status symbol if you have any measure of testosterone at all. The more gas-guzzling the better.   Plus, how can you pull the 30' skiboat with some Beemer?  Joke. 

Mahonri: You make me laugh. Beemer...

Never been attracted to cars, I just like it when they run and don't break or cost me lots of time and extra money. Sometimes though when I see the "external" priorities of my fellow saints, I wonder to myself if I have some kind of selfish and unhealthy preoccupation on church stuff, rather than the acquisition of nicer newer stuff or simply to do a better job at home repair... Mow the Lawn or go help my hometeaching family mow the lawn, I'll neglect mine anyday... In fact my second daughter and I have a secret pact that we don't want any of the neighbors to know... We secretly love Dandelions.

--Ray

My brother-in-law and I went through the same MBA program, but were a year apart in MBA class. He focused in Finance, I in HRM and MIS. Anyway, when we talk about corporate America, he likes to remind me of one of the fiscal maxims we learned in the basic finance class all candidates of the program took -- if you want to determine how wise a company is with their money, look to see how frequently they are sponsoring sporting venues or events.

Anyone care to venture a guess as to what it means?

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The moral is that if they are wasting money on buying the naming rights to this or that stadium or this or that football bowl game or this or that PGA tournament or fancy schmancy multi-million dollar ad campaigns, you have to ask the question where else are the exectives of the firm wasting the corporation's money and squandering the shareholder's earnings.

Now, translate that down into the smaller business viewpoint. Buying the trappings of looking like you are well to do as a Dentist or Doctor or small business owner / manager does not make you successful. In fact, it will more times than not end up driving you out of a competitive advantage or environment. Why? Furnishings / trappings / nice things do not have a thing to do with the business' core competency... or in other words what it is the business does well and justifies its being in the marketplace. It increases overhead and cost. That overhead and cost gets passed on to the business' consumers in the form of higher costs. Higher costs make consumers go elsewhere. Less consumers, less revenue. Less revenue, same fixed costs (which include the sunk and incremental costs on the "nice things"), less profit. Less profit = short term, less successful than the competition, long term inability to grow the business in meaningful ways that contribute to future success of the business.

I have a lot more respect for a businessperson who lives like a normal person than living the high life just because they are in a "position" that seems to require it and because they make >=2x or 3x or 4x or more my salary in a bad economic cycle year than me.

So, next time the wife insists you drive a Beemer so those who are defining what keeping up with the Jones is are happy, give her a lesson in macro economics! Oh, and send the Beemer my way, informing her that though you won't be driving it, the expense will be going for a more worthy cause!

It's sickening... but yes. She's now my patient.

Amazingly I had a number of my patients who said, "I'm so glad I can tell my friends that my dentist drives a Beemer.... it just didn't sound like you were good enough when you drove a Towncar.

On the other hand, there are a group of patients that now are starting to think I charge too much.

(I charge less than most but am just below average for AZ)

You can't win them all.

Sad isn't it?

I'm ready for an F-250 super cab.

And truth be told... we went shopping together and when we drove the one we bought we both fell in love. It took me almost two weeks to talk them down to the price I wanted to pay but eventually they caved.

-- Edited by Mahonri at 18:09, 2007-04-24

"It's sickening... but yes. She's now my patient."


I mean this with all due respect, but I think it's just as sickening that you are riding the same train of thought.

With all due respect, does anyone really know what the phrase "with all due respect" actually means?

This sounds like a job for Wikipedia Man! Hmmm... it seems to mean that something is to be related to that classical HBO drama The Sopranos...

Mahonri, be careful, Coco may have done the equivalent of giving you the kiss or placing the horse head in your bed...

(here is an "actual" definition, but with all due respect, I disagree with it...)

But, with all due respect, when the phrase is used, others may not know what you feel is due respect, particularly if respect is due and the amount has not been laid out in a straight forward manner... 

So, when all due respect has been paid, it may actually end up that a credit or debit balance of respect may be due.  And if it means there is still an upaid respect balance, then all due respect has not been given...

Which makes me wonder, when someone has paid you more respect than is due, do you return the superfluous amount of respect that has been overpaid? Or like some medical professional's offices we have dealt with, does the duplicate payment of a patient's co-pay conveniently get overlooked with a "overpayment, what do you mean?" and booked as "free cash" to apply towards non-paying patients or insurance disallowances?  

You make the fatal assumption that it's even possible to pay more respect than is due. At least while I play creditor. While I'm debtor, well, that's another story. And if the respect was superfluous to begin with, yes it will be returned. With honor.

Sanity takes its toll... please have exact change.