Iran Captures British Sailors in Iraq Territory

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Iran Captures British Sailors in Iraq Territory

arbilad · Head Chef

I heard about it because I listen to talk radio.
The press will probably bellyache about how we shouldn't jump to conclusions, that the iranians have been picked on so of course they'll act that way, etc.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

I saw a story about it on the FOX News this morning.

Every which way they can, the nutjobs in charge of Iran are trying to cause provocation...

Beyond all the nuclear program crapola, they start holding naval exercises in the already crowded gulf...

Then they "claim" that the U.S. denied visas for Pres. Tom and his Peanut Gallery to attend the U.N. ...

Now they send their Iranian Revolutionary Guard Navy out to capture British sailors doing routine piracy inspections...

Anyway, the UK sounds like they are taking a firm stance on this.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

One of the problems we have is that liberals think you can negotiate with Muslims.

Muslims don't know anything but power. Until we treat them as the Gadianton's that they are we will see no end to war and bloodshed.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

That is not an accurate statement Mahonri.

Muslims can be negotiated with. Proof of this is the government of Jordan, the peace negotiations between Israel and Egypt, the ongoing moves towards a peaceful reunification on Cyprus between the greek cypriots and the turkish cypriots, Turkey's membership in NATO, the peace that was eventually brokered in Bosnia and other Balkan states.

It is fanatical ideologues who use islam to perpetuate hate and to maintain their dictatorial power structure that are problematic to negotiate with. In that respect, they are really not much different than if they were sikhs, buddhists, shintoists, animalists, voodooists, communists, athiests, or even some so called christians.

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Probably more accurate is the statement that you cannot negotiate with hard line muslim extremists except at the point of a bayonet. I think a strong demand from Blair laying out the specific consequence will do one of two things. If President Tom immediately gives in then he loses face. If he doesn't an immediate strike against his government and military structures will serve to show that this sort of bull hockey will not be tollerated. I agree that you cannot deal with these people by looking weak.

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

As I recall, this is the second such incident. The first time it involved British seamen, and they were held for about 6 days before being released. I cannot see where it would be in Iran's interest to provoke war with any other country. To me that's the kind of stupid act that could backfire on Iran and be used as an excuse for a military confrontation.

arbilad · Head Chef

Lundbaek, Iran is trying to provoke the west. Whether or not they actually do, they flatter themselves that they have prepared a trap for the great satan that will prove their downfall. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Or their leader is simply insane, which is not unlikely.
BTW, on Fox Radio News they said that the Iranians "arrested" the british sailors. That's a totally inappropriate use of the word. They had no authority in that area. In fact, they were the ones who were there illegally. The British had every right to be conducting those searches - they're working in cooperation with the Iraqi government. But of course, heaven forbid that the media miss a chance to make the west look bad.

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

Hmmmmm......I have heard some online speculation that maybe those British sailors weren't where it has been said that they were... I wonder who might be provoking whom. Our side can tell lies, too, you know.

Great, know I sound like one of the conspiracy believers....

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

The Brits were in an area which both Iran and Iraq claim as territorial waters. The area has been in dispute for decades. Just another way Iran is is trying to expand its inluence in the region.

Fregramis · Senior Member

salesortonscom wrote:

I don't know if you caught the news of Iran capturing British sailors in Iraq waters conducting shipping inspections or not. The mainstream media seems to be ignoring it. The networks didn't even lead with the story this morning.

I just checked Drudge Report. Iran is threatening to try them for espianoge. No one else seems to be reporting on it. Oh, I guess the UN placed even tougher sanctions on Iran today. Oh yeah, that'll show em.......

This kind of reminds me of an event that happened a few months before 9/11. A US aircraft had to emergency land in China and they held our airmen for several days, boarded the plane---borderline hostile behavior. Bush had to kiss their backsides before they would release them WITH the plane. I guess it's the price you have to pay for Wal Mart prices, right?

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

I am so mad. It looks like we are going to return the Iranian terrorists we captured in Iraq so that Iran will release the illegally siezed hostages. Bush and Blair have no backbone. WHAT IS WRONG WITH US!!!! WE ARE GIVING INTO EVIL. I am sick to my stomach. The politicians have sold us out. Arghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

arbilad · Head Chef

You are so right, Jason. We need to have backbone. It is an international agreement that your territorial waters only extend out to 12 miles. If you decide on a different amount, it doesn't matter. It is still an act of war to board a ship and capture crewmembers outside that 12 miles. The Iraq/Iran border is also a generally accepted specifically defined line. In this age of GPS locators the chances that british sailors were really in Iran's territorial waters are vanishingly slim.
What's worse is giving them anything in exchange for the sailors they kidnapped. It just encourages them to do it again.

Homestar Runner · Senior Member

Iran has a long and noble history of getting they want by taking hostages, and watching the people that should know better fold like deck chairs.

Take a look at what we were talking about back in 1986:

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

Those pictures aren't coming up. I just get the small red x in the corner of where the picture should be.

At any rate, this whole situation reminds me of a song by The Judys back in the day. I think it was called, "Vacation in Tehran". It was an indie rock group. I think the lyrics fit this situation as well as the old hostage situation quite well. I wish I could remember all the lyrics.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

The pics come up for me and make this thread almost unreadable because the pages are so wide.

There is no such thing as negotiating with Iran.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

We don't negotiate with terrorists. That's been a matter of policy for generations. If we ever do, it will tell the rest of the terrorists that taking hostages, etc. is profitable because the U.S. will now negotiate.

Iran openly supports terrorist groups. Iran takes hostages. Pres. Bush called Iran a member of the Axis of Evil.

We don't negotiate with terrorists. When did that change?

TitusTodd · Senior Member

Word is this morning that Iran has said they are going to release the British sailors as a "gift" to the UK. We'll see if it happens.

This is a power play by Iran. They want to show they are not intimidated by the UN, and the US. This is happening after UN sanctions have begun and the US has unleashed its own power play ("leaked" information regarding a possible attack by the US on Iran's nuclear facilities - "Operation Bite" - mostly coming from Russian intelligence).

Homestar Runner · Senior Member

The royal smart people at Stratfor figures capturing the sailors was just a way to 'look unpredictable' to the US, as Iran and the US negotiate about Iraq.

At this point, both sides in the negotiations are trying to impress upon each other not only that they retain some options, but also that their moves cannot be easily predicted. Both want to be seen as retaining the option of surprise. The capture of the British personnel, then, should be read not so much as the trigger for an international crisis as a diplomatic signal. If either the Americans or the Iranians believed it were possible to achieve their own ideal outcomes in negotiations, either the capture or the U.S. military surge into Iraq would not have come about. The game for each now is an effort to secure an outcome that can be lived with -- not an outright victory.

Fregramis · Senior Member

Round 1 -Last summer's "war" in Lebanon-----

State sponsored terrorism:1 , the West: 0

Round 2 -The recent British hostage "crisis"-----

State sponsored terrorism:1 ; the West: 0

Round 3 - ?????????????????

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Homestar Runner wrote:

The royal smart people at Stratfor figures capturing the sailors was just a way to 'look unpredictable' to the US, as Iran and the US negotiate about Iraq.

Woo Hoo! A fellow Stratfor reader! Even though they use open sources, their analysis is superior to any of the classified analyses from our intelligence agencies that I used to have access to. I've been a subscriber for 10 years now.

TitusTodd · Senior Member

Two Stratfor readers here and I had to find out (about Stratfor) from someone else recently?

-- Edited by TitusTodd at 13:50, 2007-04-05

Valhalla · Profuse Pontificator

Personally, I think Iran is just testing the waters even further. Previous to the Brits, Iranian soldiers have attacked American troops in Iraq, killed four Americans at one point. And what did the US do, nothing? They are trying to see how far they can go and probing for responses.