Could it possibly be that the reason men (as well as people altogether) are not attending is because you don't have the truth they are really yearning for? But, if you really want to get money in the collection plate, sounds like you got to tell them it is okay to swear and cuss and behave like a cave man and build up the Son of Man to be the same thing...
What a bunch of losers (with a capital L)...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Ok, so your pews are empty so why not turn something holy and divine into the Comedy Central Channel's line up. Yuck it up for increased profits boys! The message wasn't enough now we have to market it in a new modern, angry, edgy, package!!!! What's next Christain Porn with folks who get it on and then go to church together! I don't know what's worse the alleged Christains doing this or the fact that the LA paper decides to make such a big deal out of this fringe wacko view of religion.
Towards the end of the article it mentions that speakers at the event admit to masturbation and adultery. Isn't that the exact sort of thing Jesus was trying to save us from? Whatever happened to "The meek shall inherit the Earth"?
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
I dunno. I've heard these same arguments used against a certain overly-feminized online group. It may be they have a point. Maybe that's what all we men really want... to curse, play loud music, refuse to compromise with our wives, refuse to be gentle and kind, grunt and scratch ourselves and boss women and children around... At least until the women start leaving us... then it's all "Oh crap... Wait. We'll be good. C'mon honey! I was just joking."
So what do you think of this guy's characterization of Christ? I've heard the very same points made here to suggest that Christ was a political animal... etc... --Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Wait a second didn't these same women who now complain about men being crass cavemen actually encourage that behavior by dating pining over and dating the popular bad boys back in high school and beyond. If you reward the behavior don't be surprised that you get it.
Well, Ray, we're supposed to overcome the natural man. The natural man may want to do the things named in the article, but a wise man won't. Granted, Jesus was aggressive when the situation called for it. But he didn't seem to see the need for it mostly. The type of man in these seminars would have helped Peter cut off the guards' ears, not put them back on.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
rayb wrote: I dunno. I've heard these same arguments used against a certain overly-feminized online group. It may be they have a point. Maybe that's what all we men really want... to curse, play loud music, refuse to compromise with our wives, refuse to be gentle and kind, grunt and scratch ourselves and boss women and children around... At least until the women start leaving us... then it's all "Oh crap... Wait. We'll be good. C'mon honey! I was just joking."
So what do you think of this guy's characterization of Christ? I've heard the very same points made here to suggest that Christ was a political animal... etc... --Ray
Don't know these are the same arguments as in the first instance you present. Big difference in my mind. This is encouraging the stereotypical natural caveman for the profit of getting people in your pews to up your weekly priestcraft take... the other is more or less expecting men to behave like women and enjoy talking about the same sort of things they do.
It is well known that those who are only followers in word create their god after their own image...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
I could not even stand to read that whole article, that was pathetic, though they are right in some aspects, particulary the wussification aspect. Heck, I see it our own church a lot. I see a lot of men who refuse to stand up for what is right, are afraid of giving offense, who do not stand up and take the lead in their own homes, who do not lead in righteousness.
I think some of this comes from what seems like the placing of women on a pedestal and frequently hearing about men and porn and abuse. It feels like men are being afraid to assert themselves. I think some comes from the fact that all a child or woman has to do is say "he abused me" and a man's life is screwed, in or out of the church. I have personal knowledge of this happening several times. I have seen numerous instances of wives/children running everything. A husband was placed to lead the home and family, the way Christ leads us.
A minister of another faith and I were speaking about family and a man's position. He is very concerned in his own church about this wussification. God set up a patriarchal order. Men and women are not equal in all ways, no matter the world claims. My wife is not my equal in some things, we are to work together, but ultimately, God has placed the responsibility and stewardship on the man/priesthood holder. Leadership must be done in subjection to Christ and in righteousness. But I see less and less of this. We talked about these things and he wholly agreed.
I believe that much of the dissolution of the family is due to this wussification of manhood and leadership. It is a movement away from how God organized families from the very beginning. Adam was set at the head of the human family, not Eve, she was an helpmeet, but all done in righteousness, no unrighteous dominion. We worship the Father, the Atonement was done through His Son, think of the temple covenants a woman makes that a man does not.
Some may find the things I say offensive, but I make no apologies. I have to answer to God for my stewardship on earth, how I lead my family. This is no different than God's leadership of us. Our family and our leadership is just a microcosm of what God does now. Men have to learn to lead and lead in righteousness, because if we are to be like God then, we have to lead righteously now.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
Valhalla, there's a lot of truth in what you say. But many people think that by saying the man should lead that the man is better. It's not that way at all. True leadership is a service calling. That is, you serve others as a leader, instead of them serving you. For instance, when I come home from work, even though I've had a tough day too, I help out with the baby, review my older son's math lessons, etc. The money gets spent first on the children, then on my wife, then, if there's any left, on me. Being the leader of a family is a lot of responsibility and involves an awful lot of service. A true man doesn't lead his family for personal glory. He leads them so that he can do his best to provide for their needs, whether they are emotional, spiritual, or physical.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Correct arbilad. Where much is given, much is required. If a man is to attain godhood, he must abide things righteously here. That is what men must retain in mind, we are here to learn to be like God, to become a god. God sacrificed His Son, we have to sacrifice here. The government of our families is placed on a man's shoulders, as will it be in the eternities.
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Lo, there I see my mother, my sisters, my brothers Lo, there I see the line of my people back to the beginning Lo, they call to me, they bid me take my place among them In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live...forever
We are fast becoming a Godless society. As I drive down the streets of Phoenix and see all of the closed or empty Church's it concerns me. Religion matters to so very few now. We are getting ripe.... quickly.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
With the population growing and communities growing left and right in this area so quickly, I don't see nearly as many churches being built per community. Save for the LDS which have the means (due to its remarkable structure...) to be able to at least track the quickly expanding housing markets.
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I think it depends partly on the area. There are quite a few churches in my community, considering that it is a small town.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
bokbadok wrote: The money gets spent first on the children, then on my wife, then, if there's any left, on me.
In my family, I am last on the list.
Each family has their priorities. My wife breeds cats so that she can have a separate income but still stay at home with the kids. Others put the kids in the last place, although I can't really agree with that. Besides, it's much more fun to see my baby in a camo onesie with "Major Trouble" written on it than it is to buy a witty t-shirt for myself.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
