Praying Out Loud

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Praying Out Loud

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

We had the same lesson on Sunday as you Cat. The way I read the scripture in question is that it wasn't that specific. At least the way I read it. I thought it could be interpreted to say your prayers vocally and silently and that you could apply the vocally part to the public prayers. Like you, I want my personal prayers private so I say them to myself plus I'm just self concious when it comes to doing personal prayers out loud. I have no desire to share my weaknesses with the adversary. I have enough problems without giving him intel.

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

I find that praying out loud focuses my thoughts and focuses me on my prayer. It is much more fulfilling and effective for me. I think tht we need to hear ourselves say those things sometimes, and also that verbal formulation actually helps us ponder and organize our thoughts. We can find the answers to the very things we were praying about, simply by praying verbally, being open and specific with the Lord, and letting the Spirit guide us in our prayer (see Rom. 8:26).

I have never given any thought to the fact that Satan might be listening in. #1, I have my doubts that he can; #2 I think that the benefit and power gained from verbal prayer greatly offsets any disadvantages.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

I pray out loud. I find places where I can be alone. If you don't have those times, perhaps that's a good indication that you need to fix a few things... so that you have at least a few minutes every day to be alone and pray verbally.

I don't think Satan has any difficulty figuring out how well he's doing. Speaking our problems aloud doesn't give him any more power, after all, he's the one working on you in the first place. If that's really a concern, use the power of the priesthood and Christ to command Satan to leave you alone, so you can pray in peace and then pray.

I agree that praying verbally helps me focus my desires. I find that if I cannot verbalize something, I haven't given it enough thought... I'm just muddling through.

I muddle through a lot these days. :) I also think that as we pray for ourselves, and commune with the Spirit verbally on a personal level, when we are called upon to pray for others or give them blessings, it will be easier for us. It's not exactly the same thing, but it is another way we can prepare ourselves for giving blessings and praying in public settings.

--Ray

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

I'm with Ray and Shiz on the value of vocalizing. I pray silently far more than I do out loud, partly because most of the time when it occurs to me to pray the situation does not lend itself to prostration. Like when driving. :) I don't like to put off thanking the Lord for some recognized blessing, no matter how small, so I usually just mouth the words silently, or if I'm alone, speak softly.

I am curious, how does one go about praying out loud while at the temple?

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

bokbadok wrote:

I am curious, how does one go about praying out loud while at the temple?

If you're endowed, I think it should be fairly evident...

Okay, not much response on my first question yet... except the assumption Jason brought up and the formal casting out referenced by Ray... but, neither really address whether or not the evil one is allowed to listen to verbalized prayers to our Heavenly Father in the first place.

It is clear that he will try to prevent it to the point of binding the tongue, as in Joseph Smith Jr's case. But, he went on and fought it off (with help from above). But, what about Enos? Or the brother of Jared? Or Adam? Or King Lamoni's father? Or Moses on Mount Sinai? Or an innocent child? Or a youth on a campout? Or you in the confines of your bedroom? Or what about the singing of hymns?

At some point, is Satan bound from hearing or being present when a mortal prays aloud to The Father?

Euphrasie · Senior Bucketkeeper

I think...he can. Although, I would think it's less of an advantage for him than you'd think. I suspect he probably knows us pretty well already, and there's not much we can say that he wouldn't already know.

arbilad · Head Chef

I'm with Euphrasie. I think the adversary can hear prayers spoken out loud. But I don't think it matters. The Lord is in charge. He's not going to let you be punished for praying to him. Besides, what is the adversary going to do? Use the knowledge he gained from your prayer to thwart the blessings the Lord was going to give you? Hardly.
Besides, as Euphrasie says, he knows us pretty well already.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

If we're not supposed to hide the fact that we're members of Christ's church to our fellow saints, why should we do so with our adversary? I would think a person who doesn't pray solely for the fear that Satan might learn some juicy tidbit would be fearing the devil more than God... and well...

--Ray

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

ahem... y'all are not being terribly informative or enlightening at this point. If you really don't know the authoritative answer, just say so. I would think this is something that opinion or hearsay should not be substituted...

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Satan can hear your verbal prayers... I am thinking of a specific point in the endowment that indicates this...

--Ray

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Well, yeah, but where is the line between the symbolism in what you are thinking and actual condition of this state of existence?

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Honestly, I don't know how it could be more clearly stated, though...

--Ray

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Come on Cat, don't you want to share your opinion with us?

Euphrasie · Senior Bucketkeeper

y'all are not being terribly informative or enlightening at this point.

Gee thanks. Glad to know our contributions are appreciated. I don't know IF there is an authoritative answer. Or are you holding out on us?

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Yeah, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop...

glumirk · Senior Member

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Helaman 4:24 And they saw that they had become weak, like unto their brethren, the Lamanites, and that the Spirit of the Lord did no more preserve them; yea, it had withdrawn from them because the Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples—

From the Spencer W. Kimball Manual:

Because Heavenly Father knows and loves us perfectly, we can trust His answers to our prayers.

Is prayer only one-way communication? No! …

Learning the language of prayer is a joyous, lifetime experience. Sometimes ideas flood our mind as we listen after our prayers. Sometimes feelings press upon us. A spirit of calmness assures us that all will be well. But always, if we have been honest and earnest, we will experience a good feeling—a feeling of warmth for our Father in Heaven and a sense of his love for us. It has sorrowed me that some of us have not learned the meaning of that calm, spiritual warmth, for it is a witness to us that our prayers have been heard. And since our Father in Heaven loves us with more love than we have even for ourselves, it means that we can trust in his goodness, we can trust in him; it means that if we continue praying and living as we should, our Father’s hand will guide and bless us.

And now for the part in question:

In our private, personal prayers, we can commune with God and learn His will.

Some things are best prayed about in private, where time and confidentiality are not considerations. Prayer in solitude is rich and profitable. Praying alone helps us to shed shame or pretense, any lingering deceit; it helps us open our hearts and be totally honest and honorable in expressing all of our hopes and attitudes.

I have long been impressed about the need for privacy in our personal prayers. The Savior at times found it necessary to slip away into the mountains or desert to pray. Similarly, the Apostle Paul turned to the desert and solitude after his great call. Enos found himself in solitary places to commune with God. Joseph Smith found his privacy in the grove with only birds and trees and God to listen to his prayer. Observe some keys in his story: “So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. … It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.” (Joseph Smith—History 1:14; italics added.)

We, too, ought to find, where possible, a room, a corner, a closet, a place where we can “retire” to “pray vocally” in secret. We recall the many times the Lord instructs us to pray vocally: “And again, I command thee that thou shalt pray vocally as well as in thy heart; yea, before the world as well as in secret, in public as well as in private.” (D&C 19:28.)10

If in these special moments of prayer we hold back from the Lord, it may mean that some blessings may be withheld from us. After all, we pray as petitioners before an all-wise Heavenly Father, so why should we ever think to hold back feelings or thoughts which bear upon our needs and our blessings?11

In our prayers, there must be no glossing over, no hypocrisy, since there can here be no deception. The Lord knows our true condition. Do we tell the Lord how good we are, or how weak? We stand naked before him. Do we offer our supplications in modesty, sincerity, and with a “broken heart and a contrite spirit,” or like the Pharisee who prided himself on how well he adhered to the law of Moses? [See Ether 4:15; Luke 18:11–12.] Do we offer a few trite words and worn-out phrases, or do we talk intimately to the Lord for as long as the occasion requires? Do we pray occasionally when we should be praying regularly, often, constantly?12

Prayer is such a privilege—not only to speak to our Father in Heaven, but also to receive love and inspiration from him. At the end of our prayers, we need to do some intense listening—even for several minutes. We have prayed for counsel and help. Now we must “be still, and know that [he is] God.” (Ps. 46:10.)13

I actually taught this Relief Society lesson on Sunday, and I would highly recommend that you all read the whole lesson if you haven't already....and reading it 3 or 4 times definitely doesn't hurt.

Now about the quotes. We know how we can have the Spirit dwell with us. I've always imagined that when we feel the Spirit, and have that warmth, that we are feeling to a very small degree what the presence of our Heavenly Father is like. The Spirit acts to bring things to remembrance, especially things Spiritual. It's interesting because obviously everyone on this earth had a testimony in the Pre-Earth Life, and the Spirit just reminds us of that testimony as it bears testimony to us.

Also, in the armor of God, the sword is the Spirit. The sword is the only offensive piece of the armor, yet it is also used in defense.

I really have a hard time expressing myself, so maybe my disjointed thoughts will help someone to know what I'm really saying, and verify if they can be connected or not, but I honestly believe that where the Holy Spirit dwells, Satan cannot, just as darkness cannot dwell amidst light.

What I do know, is that lately I've been working on making my prayers more meaningful, and there is a definite difference as I pray aloud. Part of it is that one way my prayers are answered is simply by "pouring out my soul" as Amulek taught. Somehow when I allow myself to do that, I will say things that I know I didn't think of on my own, and by taking those opportunities that I see because of my prayers, only good has ever happened.

I guess I just imagine that a prayer of faith is protected by that Spirit that it brings into our hearts.

And just another thought, there is a power in saying anything vocally. Thoughts lead to words, words to deeds. If we think a prayer, it does have power, but how much more power do actual words have? And even more power if we allow those words of prayer turn into deeds which are supporting the Kingdom of Heaven.

I feel really speculative because I don't have any quotes to really back me up, so please let me know if I speak wrongly. I know what I'm thinking, but I just have a hard time expressing it.

bokbadok · Senior Bucketkeeper

Good thoughts Glumirk. :)

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

No other shoe to drop. No opinion of mine to give.

Asking an honest, sincere question and looking for an authoritative answer, not just personal belief... listening to people's personal beliefs in the first place is what brought the question up.

Sorry, I do appreciate the responses and effort you all have put in to them. It just started feeling like no one was doing what I had asked... to stay away from anecdotal discussion.

Glumirk, thanks... that is actually the part of the lesson where the discussion came up and the opinion was given and no one said anything differently. It was like learning something brand new when we read the verse from the D&C, as if it was something I had never known or perceived before.

Joseph Smith found his privacy in the grove with only birds and trees and God to listen to his prayer.
Okay, now this is telling... how do you guys interpret this? Satan was not able to hear Joseph start praying, but knowing of the potential and foreordination of Joseph, did what he could to stop him from praying? Is there anything more about this that anyone can find? That may actually give hope for the definitive answer I'm looking for... namely that the adversary is not allowed to hear our verbal prayers.

glumirk · Senior Member

ok, now this is just speculation, but I think once we start to pray, if we are praying with real intent and don't let our minds get distracted at all, that real intent (faith) is like a force field around the prayer so that Satan can't hear it.

And just out of curiosity, where does it say that Satan can't hear our thoughts?

And just to finish things up, for some reason this song came into my head. When we pray we are inviting the Spirit to be with us, which automatically protects us from the influences of the devil.

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/letsunshinein.htm

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

(faith) is like a force field around the prayer so that Satan can't hear it.

You're right, that's definitely speculation...

And while we're at it, here's my speculation...

I think Satan more or less comes and goes where he pleases on this world, unless explicitly commanded by the power of the Priesthood in the name of Christ to leave.

Heck in the book of Job, he appears before God and challenges God saying that Job has things too easy... I know God has the power to bind Satan, this we know will be the case in the Millenium, but why should we think that he does so now?

Satan enters my home everytime I turn on the Teevee... especially if it's Barbie Fairydopia...

--Ray

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

When Joseph Smith recieved the First Vision... he was praying out loud.
When Enos went to the woods to pray and recieved that wonderful answer to his prayers... he was praying out loud.
When Moses saw God on Mt. Siniai... he was praying out loud.

There are numerous other examples.... Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F. Smith, Spencer W.Kimball... Adam, Enoch, Abraham-Isaac-Jacob, Our Savior.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

You're right Mahonri. And that is the kind of conundrum I am working under right now. I know that others have done it, but is there some sort of automatic preclusion which takes place to keep the adversary from hearing a verbal prayer?

Personally, I want to say there is, but I don't have anything to back it up as truth yet, whereas anecdotally I could state that some people's belief that the adversary can hear verbal prayers is not sourced in truth... Why? Because if Satan can get individuals not to pray, he will use half-truths or falsehoods in order to do it. And what is the natural tendency of mankind towards praying verbally if they feel Satan has "bugged the room" or woods or secret place?

Perhaps I should pray about it...

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

is there some sort of automatic preclusion which takes place to keep the adversary from hearing a verbal prayer?

No, there is no such preclusion. Satan was right there when Joseph and Moses and probably all the others prayed.

BUT, when we pray with real intent, angels are set as sentinels to guide and protect us. As we move forward with faith, the adversary will be bound by our righteousness.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Thank you. That is kind of what all my pondering has been pointing towards. As the brother who gave the lesson in Priesthood today said, the deliverance for Joseph in the grove didn't come until the unrecorded exercise of sufficient faith to ask for help. Where righteousness exists, the adversary can not remain.