Those immoral gays

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Those immoral gays

arbilad · Head Chef

Because all thought crime must be stamped out. You can't consider homosexuality to be immoral, even though it is. What if a homosexual gets offended?

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

When I was a kid I used to have a hard time understanding the behavior of the Nephites. I think in part, it strained the book's credibility. I mean I wondered (as a simple-minded kid) People don't act that way! I figured, "Can't they understand that this has happened again and again?" It was a little annoying, to tell the truth, to read about the Nephites and how they would get all offended at the prophets who came to remind them that there were moral laws. I especially remember wondering how a civilization like the Nephites could so fully embrace an evil like the Gadianton Robbers. You'd think that when the prophets came and said, "those Gadiantons are immoral." that most people would agree. However the Nephites embraced the Gadiantons, and got really really offended at prophets who criticized them...

Now I don't have nearly as much difficulty understanding how this could happen...

--Ray

salesortonscom · Wise and Revered Master

The general also compared it to adultry.....oh the horror!!! Homos can't be as bad as adulterers. How dare he make those sort of judgements!!!!!

arbilad · Head Chef

This is one of many reasons why I will never be able to be elected to public office. If I had remarked that homosexuality was immoral, I would not retract my comments or apologize in any way. It is immoral, and that's a fact. If I had said something to deliberately insult homosexuals, then I would apologize. But there is no value in saying that homosexual behavior is not immoral when it so clearly is. The wicked take the truth to be hard.

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

The wicked take the truth to be hard.
Yep. So do the righteous sometimes.

I applaud the general for saying the truth. I am sad that he was coerced to say he regretted expressing his opinion and thoughts. I hope he has the conviction though to not apologize for saying the truth.

What is worse, the allegation of discriminatory speech or the stamping out of freedom of thought? Both are the result of someone not liking someone else's view of a situation.

Mahonri · Senior Bucketkeeper

They can compare it to adultry... it's that and worse simply because it goes against nature... but the problem is, most folks don't even see anything wrong with adultry anymore.

We must pray for His coming to be soon!

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

I'm offended that they took offense. Are they going to apologize to me??

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Only if you can prove that you are in danger of being deported...

lundbaek · Profuse Pontificator

I liked the observation: "I especially remember wondering how a civilization like the Nephites could so fully embrace an evil like the Gadianton Robbers. You'd think that when the prophets came and said, "those Gadiantons are immoral." that most people would agree. However the Nephites embraced the Gadiantons, and got really really offended at prophets who criticized them..." I believe some people in future generations will be thinking and saying the same things about our generation.

Fregramis · Senior Member

Even if research demonstrated that homosexual behaviors are genetically influnced ( which research up to now has been non-conclusive at best), so what?

Human males have "evolved" to have as many mating partners as possible to ensure fitness. Therefore, my adulterous behavior is totally justified. God made me this way.

If someone has inclinations to homosexuality, they are under the same rules as everyone else. Self control must be used the same as with pornography, masturbation, and other sexual sins.

This behavior, no matter how normal it may be portrayed, will send our nation to the oblivion of past civilizations, who not only tolerated ,but celebrated this lifestyle.

Has anyone here read "The Marketing of Evil"?

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Never read the book, but I agree that there are many lesser qualities genetically inbred into each of us... our tendency towards fear, anger, sadness, body odor and lust may all have genetic components. I am grateful to know that I have a choice in the matter as well... I feel very lucky to have been born into a church and having been blessed with a testimony that I believe I can control these elements of my life thanks to the healing power of Christ.

I mourn for those who don't have such a witness... and feel a great desire to help others understand that they have choices too...

--Ray

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54683

I don't typically find WND to be an overly credible news source, but what the heck, I'll throw a little wood on the fire.

--Ray

arbilad · Head Chef

rayb wrote:

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54683

I don't typically find WND to be an overly credible news source, but what the heck, I'll throw a little wood on the fire.

--Ray

You don't? There have been many, many times when they've had a story first that other, more mainstream sources, later picked up. Of course, I don't find mainstream news to be credible, so maybe that's not a great argument.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Oh I agree with you about most mainstream newsources as well... Dunno what to believe much anymore...

--Ray

fear of shiz · Profuse Pontificator

Here's a presidential candidate, taking a bold stand on this issue:

Jack Tapper of ABC News, asked Sen. Clinton whether homosexuality was immoral. Her response:

"Well I'm going to leave that to others to conclude," she said. "I'm very proud of the gays and lesbians I know who perform work that is essential to our country, who want to serve their country and I want make sure they can."

Cat Herder · Understander of unimportant things

Well, that proves she has no morals if she will 1. not unequivocably state that her husband is an adulterer and 2. that she leaves it up to others to decide what is immoral and what is not...

Next question, Sen. Billary, who are these others you are leaving it up to conclude?

arbilad · Head Chef

I think that Hillary knew about the adultery and didn't care. But since it was useful politically, she pretended to care.

Roper · Senior Bucketkeeper

Fregramis wrote:

Even if research demonstrated that homosexual behaviors are genetically influnced ( which research up to now has been non-conclusive at best), so what?

Thank you. It doesn't matter what genetic dispositions may be hardwired into us. The commandments of God still apply.

Sex outside of marriage violates the laws of God. Hetero or homo--it's immoral.

And one final general comment here: Being homosexual is no more immoral than being heterosexual. Lustful thoughts and actions forbidden by God are.

arbilad · Head Chef

Given that I had an alcoholic grandmother, I may have a genetic predisposition to be an alcoholic myself. But that doesn't mean that I should rush out and start drinking. Rather the opposite. Even if it could be proven that there is a genetic predisposition to homosexuality, that doesn't mean that such a person should rush to experiment.
And so far, all "evidence" of a genetic predisposition has been bad science.

rayb · Hot Air Balloon

Arb: I think that's an unfair comparison. Physical attraction is hard to avoid unless you're willing to avoid people, whereas if you avoid the situations in which alcohol are presented, and never take that first drink, you're gonna be just swell.

The notion of homosexuality is sadly so ingrained in our culture that unless we change the way we think about "the gay", this will be a challenge for many people growing up even in the church.

I have an LDS friend whose son (age 12) asked his mother whether he was gay. He explained that there was a new boy in his class, and he felt like he'd like to get to know the boy and be his friend. He was afraid that made him gay. There are some evil and designing folk who would encourage him to pursue those feelings and direct him in the wrong path. Luckily he has a good mom and dad, and a good heart...

This is one of the things that destroys natural affection between men.

--Ray

-- Edited by rayb at 10:17, 2007-03-16

arbilad · Head Chef

Obviously, Ray, homosexual feelings, however they come about, are a much greater challenge than having a tendency towards alcoholism. However, the point is the same; the fact that you have such a weakness does not mean that they have to act on such a weekness. For instance, I know people who are not married, but really want to find a wife. They have the same sexual drives that anyone does. But the people I'm thinking of don't act on them. There are very few social stigmas anymore attached to heterosexual fornication, so you could say it is harder for a heterosexual not to act on their sex drive than it is for a homosexual. A homosexual, even in modern society, still wonders what people will think of him.
Imagine how hard it is for someone with a masturbation problem. They always have the means with them to act on temptation. At least someone with homosexual tendencies can go live as a hermit or something.
But I'm not arguing with you; you are right that it is much harder for homosexuals to separate themselves from temptation than it is for an alcoholic.

arbilad · Head Chef

Oh, and about your point about the natural affection between men, I think you're very right. I remember reading an article about someone who changed, and he said that once he mastered his homosexual desires, he was suddenly able to have friendships with men.