Wow, I just barely saw this thread -- great topic, Roper.
One of the reasons I was hesitant to talk about my mental illness is because I have been marginalized because of it before. Sometimes, when people find out I have depression, they assume that I am irrational all the time. Sometimes my statements and opinions have been rejected with something like: "that's just the depression talking."
People with mental illness are just as deserving of love and respect as anyone else. I think that one reason people react badly to people with mental illness is that they suspect it might be contagious. There are worse problems that you could have. For instance, dealing with same sex attraction. Psychiatrists don't consider it a psychosis anymore, but it is a serious lifetime problem that you will probably never be free of in this life. Remember, when you are nice to someone with a mental illness, it is the same as being nice to Christ himself.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
Honestly, when someone is in depression or has any other mental illness, in my experience, they need a friend more than ever, but they don't feel that they deserve to have one.
I had a pretty bad bout of depression in high school, and I was lucky enough to find some friends on a forum whom I could talk with, and I had an online journal that they would read and care about, and I would read and care about their's. With the support of such friends, and the testimony that I did have, I was able to pull out. Granted, moving away to college and deciding that I was just going to be myself until I found out what kind of person I really am was when things really got better.
Bok, the thing that I've noticed helps me the most when I slip into bouts of depression again is just to find something to smile about. I know when I am feeling depressed I can only see the negative side of everything in my life, so finding something good helps a lot. Or I just write out all of my feelings and go to sleep and then I usually wake up feeling a whole lot better, just drained. But I know it's different for everyone, as I have had other friends who were far worse than I.
I've never used any kind of medication for a mental illness, but it is my opinion that while medications do help, it also helps to be actively fighting it in other ways as well. Just like when you have a cold you take medication, but you also try to eat well, drink lots of fluids, and get lots of rest, I feel the same is necessary for a mental illness. Maybe not fluids and sleep, but to try to discover what causes the illness and try to fix it that way along with the medication, so that maybe one day you will be able to function normally without medication.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
I have a hard time with mental illnesses because firstly behavior can change the way a person thinks. I also have a hard time distinguishing between a person who's a jerk and a person who has a mental illness and a person who's a jerk with a mental illness. :)
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I have a good friend who is bi-polar. If he fails to take his medicine he goes manic and what we term as Kookuloos. He becomes totally irrational. It took us two weeks once to get him regulated.
I feel for those who live with and love those who are bi-polar... especially if they won't take their medicine. It gets very difficult and requires lots and lots of patience and love.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
My friend has tried to do that three times... each and every time it has been disastrous. He has heard of stories of people like your wife and then he tries to taper off or eliminate... it's the worst thing he can do. It would be like a Type 1 diabetic trying to taper off of insulin... it will never work.
He will simply need to take Lithium for the rest of his life. If he doesn't, it is NOT pretty.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Perhaps this is a topic for a different forum, but in cases like these, do healing priesthood blessings matter?
I mean it seems to me that as a priesthood holder the great temptation would be to counsel the person not to desire to be healed, but just to take meds and leave it at that.
This seems to be a great trial of faith, because of what we now are starting to understand about body chemistry, brain makeup, etc...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Roper, your wife does sound like a wonderful woman. I think we all have obstacles of environment to some degree and also genetics. It is what we do with what is in our control that counts. I do know people who define themselves too much by their mental illness--including myself. Your wife is constantly making choices when she is in the right frame of mind from what you said to build her character and to live an honorable life. When she is in depression, she seeks treatment. I imagine she also does a lot of fighting to keep her head above water, which is something that I admire as well. I think there is so much more to people than any given label. We need to remember with a label how many ways a person is not like a label. None of us fit in a box. Even if we are a little square lol.
Bok, I love you! You are cool! I hate it when people try to write people off by chalking things up to depression or bipolar. I remember as a missionary that one of the members asked me if a sister had called and told us able someone. At first, I said no. Then, he started going on about how she was mentally ill and had that look in his eyes like she was out of it. I retrieved a vague memory that I thought I did recall the conversation with her after all about the woman. I think she called right before our bedtime curfew one time. In civillian life, I thought I had a very good memory. As a missionary with so much on my plate and so much organization required, I forgot. This sister was an inspiration to me. She was a Stake Missionary and liked to be at the same time in her studies as us. She worked as a teacher's aide and I think this utilized her ability to use sign language. I think she learned to sign as she had a deaf cousin. She also sold Avon. She lived in a small one room apartment with just a bed and maybe dressers. The living space with the kitchen and I think bathroom was shared by the community of those who also had a room. Avon boxes filled her room. As a Stake Missionary, she rode her bus to go on splits with us. Once while on splits with her, I went bus contacting with her. Usually it was hard for me to share the Gospel on the bus. I am great at on a front step after knocking as there is an opening when the person answers when it is normal to share your message. It is hard for timing in other settings and opening one's mouth in public. She rode the bus so much that she knew at least one of the men on there and we gave him a Book of Mormon. I think of how much she did with her life given her circumstances. Such an inspriation!
I'd like to sign up on the "I love Bok" list... I'd also like to sign up on the "I fear Bok" list and the "I'd like to borrow expensive toys from Bok" list...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Pray tell what expensive toys the bokster has? Inquiring minds would love to know.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Roper wrote:If you or someone you love is dealing with mental illness how do you hope others respond when they find out?
I'd like their response to be similar to how I react when seeing someone with a broken leg.
I usually don't assume a broken leg is due to sin. Or that they need a cast because they haven't fasted and prayed enough. Or that they're now threats to my children, or their own. I don't feel the need to speculate behind their back why they REALLY have that broken leg. I'm fully aware of the stupidity of a statement like "people with broken legs have something wrong with them". If they've had a blessing, I don't fret and wring my hands that the blessing 'didn't take' because they still have the cast on. Like Bok said, if they have a hard day at work, or tell a joke with a weak punchline, or hold a certain political opinion, or wish to raise their kids in a way I don't want to raise my kids, I don't assume "that's the cast talking".
All of this stuff also applies to someone that took the cast off, and found they now have a permanent limp. Or people who have lived with a limp, and decided to get their leg re-broken so it could heal properly.
no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
HSR, what a great analogy. I never quite heard it put that way before. This is so good that you should share it at that other blog that many of us frequent too. Thank you ever so much! As for myself, I have had many people who have been compassionate. And some people seemed to treat me more normal than I even view myself at times. As good as it is, it makes it hard when I am not able to meet their expectations. Or maybe I could if I did not hold myself back. I have also had people make statements when I talk to them such as "how good I sound." While I can be manic, ocd is often a below the surface thing. I used to be more open about what fears ruminate in my mind. I was thinking today about how people look into each others eyes when a third party is a little strange. I think I have been the third party. It is nice to have people tell me I sound good. However, it is hard if it implies that I could do more. The good part and the hard part in my life of late is that I have been feeling stronger. I feel like I could move ahead. And then I did something really stupid just when I am feeling like I am pressing forward. And I still have reactions to things although my mental image is not as vivid much of the time. Also, I can let things go much better. I can reason better. I am afraid if I let people know other than my mom who I have told that they will push me. If someone has read about ocd, if you try to get a person to do something before they feel they are ready, that can be a bad thing. At another point when I was feeling stronger, somebody violated some very important boundaries that I had told them not to violate in relation to my problems with ocd. And that caused me a lot of backsliding as I not only had ocd to deal with but my anger and paranoia as to why they would defy my very request.
Well, after the week I have had, I would have to say that sometimes helping someone with mental illness means calling the police in their area to go and do a welfare check. And then praying the friend will be honest with the officer about what they are thinking and feeling.
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"We can do no great things, only small things with great love."
I agree with all you guys. My depression/bipolar 2 disorder has unfortunately started to define me, which is easy to do when you spend so many years butting your head against the limitations set by the disorder that you start to think there's not much you can do about it. That being said, I still fight it, though not as well as I once did. I rely on meds though I think my counseling and the Lord has helped me a ton to have a more positive attitude. It's weird -- I generally have a positive attitude, but I struggle with overwhelming thoughts if I'm not on meds. The thing is I have learned to recognize that those thoughts are not right, and I remember the blessings the Lord has given me, so I have never hurt myself no matter how much the illness says I want to. I have physical symptoms -- lethargy, pain, erratic sleep patterns -- that are only controlled by medication and other symptoms such as not enjoying anything anymore that no amount of attitude adjustment has been able to touch. I hate it. I would rather go through the pain and helplessness of my recent emergency abdominal surgery than depression.
That being said, I have been blessed with a great ward and I rarely feel judged because of my illness, except at past work where it affects my abilities and it's understandable. The only thing I wish is that people would realize that even though I look and sound fine and cheerful (because of the attitude changes I had to make to survive), I am still struggling and could use a little more attention and help than it appears I should need. I *look* fully functional, until you see my extremely messy house (even with no kids) and realize how much I sleep and avoid going out simply because I can't feel a reason to. It's invaluable to me to have someone call or come over and help get me going. When I was recovering from surgery, it was much easier to get the help that I needed because it was more obvious. I don't like feeling helpless and in need of help, but I've learned that sometimes I just plain need it. It's interesting because when I was younger and in a more manic phase, I received a blessing saying that that was my time to serve. Only later did I realize that was because I would not be as capable of serving later (though I still do what I can).
I know this is gonna sound crazy but do you think it is possible to delude yourself out of depression? --Ray
Expand on your terminology a bit, and the answer is yes, sometimes. People can establish and rely on positive habits, even they feel like they're "cheating" or lying when they do them. But these habits in turn can lead to making the endorphins pump a bit more correctly, which leads to less depression or more happiness, which leads to making better lifestyle choices, which leads to less brain-impacting trauma.
From my experience (which I get from private online journals of friends where they try to right out as much as possible, which was also my way of getting over depression), a positive attitude makes a huge difference. My friend and I would be having bad days and just venting to each other over messenger, but then we would think about happy things, like blue skies, or funny things, like trying to figure out what coconuts "standing in a row" would look like. I didn't know coconuts had legs...so I just imagine them like flamingos. It seems silly, but just finding small reasons to smile or really laugh would help us both. She still falls bad quite often, but is actively trying to fight it off. I'm convinced that the reason I came out of depression and she hasn't is because she hasn't accepted the gospel. She's started going to some Protestant church on her campus, and that's helping her a lot though. I think that women are prone to falling into depression because we compare ourselves too much, and for me, knowing of my worth helped a lot, and I wanted to act up to my potential, which included forgiving the people I needed to forgive that was dragging me down.
In some cases, depression is definitely a chemical imbalance. I just wonder if those chemical balances aren't physical reactions to a mental issue. I know when I am stressed out I feel nauseated and get tension headaches. Very physical symptoms, but a mental problem. The hardest thing is figuring out where the problem lies. No one can tell you what your problem is, because until you discover it yourself and have that self-motivation to change, it won't help.
This is just my opinion. I'm not saying anything about anyone you know's condition. I just know that for me and many people I know, the difference in mental perspective can make a huge difference in how their body reacts to anything.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
I know this is a really pesky question, but here's a second one related to the first: Is it possible to have all the "physical attributes" of a mental illness yet you don't exhibit those behaviors?
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Technically, Ray, you have to have a certain number of the symptoms before it is clinically considered depression. I know I had have had clinical depression for most of my adult life but some of the symptoms vary. For instance, about 10 years ago I had persistent negative thoughts and psychotic ideation, but i was still able to enjoy things and I had problems sleeping. Now I sleep too much and don't enjoy things, but I have far fewer negative thoughts and psychotic ideation (because of my medication) so I'm not considered completely 'cured' because both sets of symptoms are indicative of depression.
I know this is a really pesky question, but here's a second one related to the first: Is it possible to have all the "physical attributes" of a mental illness yet you don't exhibit those behaviors?
--Ray
To a certain extent, yes. My wife has her poker face down pat. It's like a mask she puts on every morning and takes off at night. She manages to surprise about one person a month with the news that she suffers from depression.
I say it works to an extent. It takes more energy to 'wear this mask' and walk around looking happy, than it does for the rest of us to just plain walk around happy. She's learned to pace her public exposure, and allocate extra time to sleep or decompress in seclusion. And I see her with her mask off. I take the kids so she can hide in the bedroom and let her mind quiet down. Or sleep for 12 hours straight after some stressful thing happens. We try to schedule times and dates as little as possible, because we never know how she'll feel until the hour before it's time to leave. Her priorities are kid activities and doctor appointments - anything else is optional.
I guess the real answer to your question is no. If she tried to never have any symptoms of depression ever, she would crash and burn within a month. We know this, because she's tried to do so in the past.
I wanted to speak of ways that I see my mentall illness as being positive. I speak of my ocd though I have had depression and may even be bipolar though I have never been diagnosed.
My ocd has 1. made me approachable to people in ways that were very special to me as these people were in a withdrawn state and knowing that I had suffered made them able to relate to me and in one case want to help me. 2. it may have helped me learn to laugh at myself in ways that I would not have otherwise as I tended to have a bit of social phobia and have embarassed myself so much though with ocd that I have to find it funny or just be completely embarassed. 3. it makes me see the miralce of life even more fully as I worry so much and am so happy when all turns out to be well as far as I know 4. it may have helped me develop interests that I may not have at this stage due to the time that I have for studies as I do not have a huge social calender. 5. maybe it helped me to open up to others as I felt in the early stages that I would be bad if I did not tell my racing thoughts and I was the type before that to keep problems bottled up. Now I usually just tell my parents. That is not a positive side of ocd as it is a burden to them although it can be a source of humor at times. 6. I have so many limitations that I am so grateful when there is something that I am competent at in this life. I may be able to name more, but I think this is a pretty good list. Oh, I think I am thinking of another. 7. It made me have more understanding towards less active members of the LDS Church as being active was like a given for me before.
